One of the basic distinctions in RPG theories is between world-oriented and story-oriented games. We come up with a set of design principles, decision modes and play procedures to support the creation of story and we call it narrativism. We come up with a set of design principles, decision modes and play procedures to support the consistent elaboration of imagined worlds and call it simulationism.

But what if the world has a story, or is a story? I am talking here about a particular, but major, kind of fantasy and myth. Wolfe's Urth has a story. Moorcock's Young Kingdom's have a story. Glorantha has a story. These are, in the broadest sense, magical places, and hence esthetic places and social places. (I would argue that "magic" is nothing other than "a surfeit of form" or "a surfeit of personality.")

My thesis is that games about such worlds may necessitate the collapse of categories, that the truest simulation is founded on narrative design. You can't understand the world apart from its story(ies). The answer to the "What's it like" question is, It's like this story." In these worlds, story principles have power. Why? It's magic.

Glorantha and Hero Wars constitute Exhibit A. In another thread, Ron presents HW's augmentation as inherently narrative: Your sword does more damage if you are wielding it on behalf of your clan and you have a strong relationship to the clan than if you have a weak relationship with the clan or are wielding it to your own ends. I suggest that it works that way because that's the way Glorantha is. In an animist world saturated with spirits who are interested parties to the contests of the living, it is the nature of things for social facts to have physical valence. (Classic surfeit of personality.) The Hero Quest rules look narrativist, but they also reflect a world where surfeit of form operates: replicating the form of the myths has tangible benefits because Glorantha is built out of its myths.

HW is a better simulation of Glorantha than Runequest because HW's rules supporting story power give a fuller flavor of Glorantha than Runequest did.

Nobilis is another game whose world simply cannot be considered apart from story, or, more broadly, literary values. I believe a good New Sun game might require just this approach to the design.

Thoughts?

Best,


Jim

Jim,

I could not disagree with your basic premise more.

I do not consider world-oriented vs. story-oriented to be a fundamental distinction. To me, the fundamental distinction is expressed in player/GM goals, which is GNS.

Within Narrativist games, I see two emphases:
1) character-driven, in which the conflicts are primarily internal;
2) setting-driven, in which the conflicts are primarily external.

Therefore I see Hero Wars as a Narrativist RPG with a strong setting-driven conflict. The development of PCs within that setting, and their "taking hold" of the conflicts it affords, constitutes the story.

I see Sorcerer as a Narrativist RPG with a strong character-driven conflict, namely the trade-off between personal goals and the danger represented by the means employed to achieve those goals. The development and "reaction" of setting and circumstances, when inhabited by such characters, constitutes the story.

Hero Wars' setting-richness, to me, bears no goal-based resemblance to the setting-richness of the RuneQuest game (as written), or to Jorune, or Tekumel, et al. These latter games emphasize world-focus within Simulationist goals.

Similarly, Sorcerer's character-richness, to me, bears no goal-based resemblance to the meticulous attention to detail for either (1) a Harnmaster character with its highly detailed mechanics or (2) a Vampire LARP with its Elayjitist-type approach. These latter games emphasize character-focus within Simulationist goals.

I can't hope for widespread agreement about this, as I now realize that the world/story dichotomy is embedded deep in the original GDS discussion. At least, I hope, my postition is coherent on its own terms.

Best,
Ron

[ This Message was edited by: Ron Edwards on 2001-07-30 11:20 ]