Hi - this is my first post on indie-rpg's forums, I have a game I designed in mid-2001, at the time I was pretty sure it was an original idea. Since then, thanks to rpg.net, I have found it's not entirely original because there seems to be lots of games that use a regular 52-card deck. In any case, here are the rules and I would appreciate any feedback (note that formatting of tables has been lost etc):





Gun-Slingin’ Card Sharks

Gun-Slingin’ Card Sharks (GCS) is a light-hearted game of Wild West fantasy. Players take the role of devil-may-care cowboys, gamblers and vigilantes in the rough-neck towns and wilderness of the Wild West.

The game is played as a collaborative story, with the Governor (game master) describing people, places and events and the Varmints (players) describing their own actions. Some situations get a mite tight and the Governor may test the Varmints ability to do what ever damn-fool thing they’re attempting. It’s down to the cards…

Most of what follows is for Governors’ eyes. No Varmints, y’hear!!! Text in italics can be read to Varmints.

***hyperlinked TOC removed***

Playin’ Yer Cards Right

Varmints tend to specialise in a few things, namely, drinking, gambling, fighting. Sometimes, Varmints stop drinking, gambling and fighting for long enough to do some riding, rustling and loving. To do these things well (and not get caught) Varmints need Strength, Speed and Smarts. These characteristics are determined by the player, who must set each score at between 1 and 3. The Varmints’ characteristic total must not exceed 6. A score of 1 is below-average, 2 is average and 3 is above-average.

Strength represents a Varmint’s muscular strength, physical endurance and toughness against pain, disease and damage.

Speed represents a Varmint’s reflexes and mental reactions as well as coordination and muscle control.

Smarts represents a Varmint’s intelligence, cool, perception and concentration.

In addition to these characteristics Varmints may develop specialties, such as Pistol Use, Riding, Quick Draw, Alcohol Tolerance, Smooth Talking, Lock-Picking, Gambling and so forth. There are no set specialties though and Varmints are encouraged to select five specialties and describe to the Governor how they were attained. *** I realise this is similar to cliches in FUDGE***

So, for the sake of demonstration we have a character Luc de Mare. We decide he’s a French seaman who’s jumped ship, off Louisiana, in search of his fortune. Being a hardy sailor his Strength will start at 3, his Speed at 1 and his Smarts at 2. With his sea-faring background we add the following specialties: Swimming, Brawling, Knife Use, Navigation and Alcohol Tolerance. Now depending on how lavishly we describe Luc’s past the Governor assigns specialty ratings. If we do a good job Luc’s character may look like this:

Real Name: Luc de Mare; Epithet: Salty or Nitemare
Characteristics: Strength 3; Speed 1; Smarts 2; (6)
Specialties: Swimming 3; Brawling 2; Knife Use 3; Navigation 2; Alcohol Tolerance 3; (13)

Now Varmints are mostly known for seeking just one thing: money. Sometimes imaginative Varmints get to thinking about owning a tavern, or becoming Sheriff or even building a confounded steam engine. As a Varmint it’s important you know why your putting yer neck on the line, so goal setting is vital. Every Varmint should have at least 3 goals: what you want to achieve in the next 7 days (short term); what you want to achieve in the next month (medium term); and, what you want to achieve on the next year (long term). Once you’ve thought of these, you may or may not decide to share ‘em with the Governor, but be sure and write them down cos’ it pays to let the Governor know when you achieve a goal!

Salty Luc’s objectives are: a) make some money to buy a horse (short term); b) become an skilled rider (medium term), and c) buy a large acreage in Texas (long term).

Often, the achievement of the Varmint’s long term objective sees them settle down and become law-abiding folk. However, most don’t survive that long…

Varmints may also choose to have Faults (the reverse of Specialties). For each fault an additional specialty may be added.
Based on how well the specialties and their back grounds are described the Governor will assign each specialty a rating, usually between 1 and 5 (more in exceptional circumstances). As a rule, the specialty totals for a poorly described background are about 9, well described around 12 and very well described around 15. Note that if you want a literate character you must have Reading & Writing as one of your specialties. In general, the more specific the description of the specialty the higher score a Varmint will have. For example, if a Varmint describes “Shooting” as a specialty, as opposed to “Smith & Wesson 6-shooter Use”, the Governor may award only +2 instead of +6. Choose carefully.

Dimes & Hardware

Wealth may be listed as a specialty and depending on how convincing you are, the Governor will tell you just how wealthy you are. Your other possessions are entirely at the Governor’s discretion. If your credible background would include owning a fine horse you may get it, otherwise the Governor may tell you just how you came to lose that fine horse, gold-plated pistol and chest full of Spanish ingots that were in your possession not 2 days earlier… thus generating your short and medium term goals for you, should you wish to recover them.

Testin’ Yer Mettle

In order to determine how successful you are in your foolhardy escapades the Governor must decide if the task you’re attempting is routine or tricky. If it’s routine, the Governor will usually just describe the sequence of events and the outcome, nice and easy. If it’s tricky, you’ll be tested.

At the start of the game Varmints are dealt five cards from a standard deck of 52 playing cards. If there are 2 or more players a double-deck is recommended. The remaining cards are placed face-down in easy view and reach of all players. How Varmints play their cards will determine how successful they are.

In any given test, the Governor and Varmint agree on which characteristic is being used (Strength, Smarts or Speed) and if any specialty applies, and if so, how much it applies. Then the difficulty of the test is assessed. Anything under 10 should be considered routine. Up to 15 is easy (for a skilled Varmint), up to 25 is tough, over 25 is very difficult. The difficulty of the task should only be described in general terms by the Governor (i.e. don’t just say, “This task has a difficulty of 18.”), if the Varmint is successful describe their success. If they fail describe that as well.

The Varmint then selects from his (or her) hand a number of cards equal to the characteristic score being used. So Luc undertaking a strength test can play up to 3 cards. Then the relevant specialty score is added to the value of the cards. If Luc had played a Jack, 7 and 5, his total is 23 and if he was attempting to swim across a swollen river his Swimming specialty of 3 gives him a test score of 26, enough to cross the river without trouble.

Of course, after this attempt the player has only 2 cards left in his hand, so 3 new cards are immediately drawn. In some cases a second attempt would be required where the first attempt failed, or the task required several consecutive successes. Varmints can draw cards and restock their hands prior to each consecutive attempt.

Later, after riding into town and knocking back several rounds of the local firewater, Luc decides to test his skills against some of the local old boys at a hand of Poker. To see just how successful he is, the Governor must decide how good the opponents are (for example, Oldboy1 has Smarts 2 and Gambling 3, Oldboy2 has Smarts 1 and Gambling 6) and then test him against them. Unfortunately for Luc his liquor addled brain isn’t helping and he has no Gambling specialty. So with a –1 penalty on his Smarts (normally 2), Luc can only play 1 card for a Gambling test.

In the first round, Luc does the only thing he can and plays an Ace from his hand (facedown). The Governor, selecting from the 5 cards of Oldboy1, plays 2 cards for him and from the 7 cards of Oldboy2, plays 1 card. OB1 reveals his cards as a 5 and a 9, for a total of 17, while OB2 reveals a Jack for a total of 17 also. Luc’s Ace (worth 15) is revealed and he realises he has lost. “Consarnit!” He hands over $5 and leaves the saloon.

When a Varmint is tested against another Varmint, or NPC opponent, you may get a tie in the value of cards played. In that case the individual that played the highest value single card wins, if that’s a tie then the highest suit wins, in this order: Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs. Any test won like this is a very marginal victory.

Cards played in a test are discarded and new ones drawn. In a session of play you may get through a deck of cards one or more times. When the last card has been drawn from the deck, simply take all discards, shuffle them and place them face down. Then, draw cards as normal.

In life or death situations a Varmint may “bust his guts” attempting the almost impossible. When a Varmint does “bust his guts” to achieve something, he may play one or more extra cards in addition to the number normally allowed by the Varmint’s characteristic. For example, if attempted Luc to cross a swollen river carrying a wounded compadre, the Governor may assign a difficulty of 33 instead of 25 if he was unencumbered. Luc, desperate to save his pal, plays the 3 (Jack, 9 and 8 + 3 for Swimming) cards allowed by his Strength characteristic, but realises this may not be enough. By “busting his gut” he is able to play another card, a 6 which brings his total to 37 and he makes it. Expending this level of effort is not without it’s price though. The extra card(s) used when “busting his gut” should be treated like a wound and the Governor should describe severe fatigue, muscle strain, a hernia, a burst vessel, chronic headache or dizziness as a result. The extra card(s) used are discarded in the same way as if a wound is inflicted and the effects and recovery are the same as a wound.

The Value of Cards

In a test, cards are worth their “face value”, that is the 7 of Hearts is worth 7 points. The picture cards are worth 11, 12 and 13 respectively for Jack, Queen & King. The Ace is worth 15 points. Remember if cards are tied, highest suit wins a marginal success.

Standard Tests

Throughout the game many types of tests occur regularly. For example:
 Drinking (Strength + Alcohol Tolerance) If this test is failed a –1 or –2 penalty should apply to the Varmint’s Smarts and/or Speed.
 Fear/Terror (Smarts + relevant specialty). If this test is failed the Varmint may be stunned, or simply flee in panic.
 Fighting* (Speed + Brawling, Wrestling, Boxing etc.)
 Gambling* (Smarts + Gambling)
 Quick Draw* (Speed + Pistol Use, Rifle Use, Quick Draw or Showdown specialty)
 Riding (Strength + Riding) Test only when an unusual move is attempted, or when crossing difficult terrain at speed etc. Most people can ride a horse slowly without difficulty.
 Seduction (Smarts + Smoothtalking, Dancing etc).
 Shooting (Smarts + Pistol Use, Rifle Use etc.)
 Surprise, by an event (Speed + Perception, Wilderness Survival or other relevant specialty). This test is for avoiding trapdoors, landslides, collapsing buildings etc.
 Surprise, by an opponent (Smarts + Perception, Wilderness Survival or other relevant specialty). This test is used when a player is ambushed, startled or attacked by an opponent.
 Throwing a small/light object (Speed + Knife Use, Accuracy etc.) Test @ 15 for a 5 yard throw, +1 for each extra yard.
 Throwing a large/heavy object (Strength + Knife Use, Accuracy etc.) Test @ 15 for a 2 yard throw, +2 for each extra yard.

Tests marked with an * are usually against direct opposition.

Other tests will generally be against one characteristic and one specialty, as negotiated by Varmints and the Governor. Remember that a specialty may sometimes only apply partially, say at half value, or more or less. For example, Pistol Use 4 may only give a +1 or +2 score for shooting with a Rifle (but not in addition to the Rifle Use specialty).

Unless a Test is specifically determining reaction speeds or reflexes (like a Showdown), the character with the highest Speed rating goes first. This applies for combat also.

Combat and Injury

Two Varmints having a duel both test their reflexes to see who draws first: Speed + Quick Draw, highest goes first. The fastest of the Varmints then tests his aim: Smarts + Pistol Use or Showdown, difficulty 15 for a static target at 20 paces but under pressure. The second Varmint may get his own shot off before he’s hit if result in the first test was very close to the other Varmint.

If the first Varmint succeeds in his aiming test, his opponent will be hit. Remember to use description, not numbers, so tell the Varmints that it is a normally easy shot, to hit a man at 20 paces, but that the intense pressure makes it difficult, describe the strain of the situation. Then if they are successful with their shot, describe the shot, don’t just say, “You hit him!”.

***formatting of tables below is poor in plain text format***


Degrees of success/failure are important also:
Degree of Success Score vs Difficulty Success: Outcome for a Showdown Failure: Outcomes for a Showdown
Marginal +0 to +3 15 – 18, The Varmint is “winged” 14 – 12, A grazing wound, no effect
Minor +4 to +6 19 – 22, The Varmint is down 11 – 9, Your shot misses
Major +8 to +11 23 – 26, The Varmint is mortally wounded 8 – 4, You miss wildly, onlookers duck for cover
Extreme +12 or more 27+, The Varmint is instantly killed 0 – 3 You drop your gun and it goes off in a random direction!

When a Varmint is wounded, he must discard one or more card from his hand (selected randomly by the Governor). The Varmint’s hand of cards remains depleted until he recovers.

The number of cards discarded depends on the severity of the injury:
Scratches Bruises Cuts Drunkenness Recovery: 1 – 6 hours rest, health tonic Of course cuts and scratches remain, but they have no effect No discard but a discretionary –1 penalty to Varmint’s Speed or Strength

Deep cut Dislocation or sprain Glancing bullet wound Falling roughly up to 2 meters Minor illness Recovery: 6 - 24 hours rest, a poultice, a strong tonic, field dressing Discard 1 Card

Arterial cut Broken arm Getting “winged” Falling 2 to 4 meters Illness or weak poison, bad water Recovery: 24 – 72 hours rest. Medical dressing, medicine Discard 2 Cards

Broken leg Shot in shoulder or abdomen Falling 4 to 6 meters
Serious Illness, poison Recovery: Up to 7 days rest. Medical dressing, medicine, surgery Discard 3 Cards

Shot in Chest Broken Hips or Back Falling 6 to 8 meters Life threatening Illness, strong poison Recovery: Up to 14 days rest. Medical dressing, medicine, surgery Discard 4 Cards

Shot in Head Falling 8 or more meters Recovery: Up to 1 month rest. Medical dressing, medicine, surgery Discard 5 Cards (RIP)


The Recovery details indicate what is required to improve to the next wound level. For example, after getting “winged” in a showdown a Varmint must rest for up to 72 hours (at Governor’s discretion) before he recovers enough to add another card to his card. After another 24 hours recovery, he may regain his full 5 card hand. For the sake of gameplay any Varmint that suffers a 4 or 5 card wound, should be considered for retirement, he may return as an interesting NPC.

Remember that in many cases a relevant specialty test can reduce the severity of an injury. For example, Strength may help reduce damage from being trampled, Speed may assist your landing in a fall.

Buying a Marble Hat…

Sometime Varmints just get into too much trouble and they go “up the flume”, “buy a marble hat” or just plain die. When a Varmint suffers an injury that causes his last card to be discarded, that Varmint can make one last “Cheat the Reaper” test: The Varmint must draw as many cards as his Strength rating and, adding relevant specialties (ie Luck, Guardian Angel), exceed a difficulty of 31. If the Varmint succeeds he may draw a card, but remains close to death and must receive treatment. All characteristics and all specialties are at 1 until then. Always remember to describe the Varmint’s dying breathes or recovery, not just, “You didn’t make it…”

…or not: Getting Stronger, Smarter and Faster

As Varmints progress through their damn-fool escapades they learn stuff and get tougher. After every adventure Varmints should submit to the Governor new specialties they have developed. At the Governor’s discretion these may be added to the character profile and given a score (+1 to +10). Your existing specialties may also be improved, but if you don’t ask you don’t get!

Rarely, a Varmint may achieve something so significant that their Strength, Speed or Smarts may be improved. However, this usually involves intensive training in body-building, athletics, gymnastics or at a school or college. This proves virtually impossible for a Varmint to attain because there are no such facilities in the Wild West and Varmints are too ill-disciplined anyway!

Whenever a Varmint achieves one of their goals, they MUST inform the Governor. The Governor and Varmint then decide if a new specialty has been gained, or an existing one improved (this can happen during a game session). The value of achieving the goal is at the Governor’s discretion based on the effort and imagination involved.

The Atmosphere

Gun-Slingin’ Card Sharks is intended to be a fast and furious comical romp through the Wild West. Keep the action punchy and the dialogue light. Players should be encouraged to take risks, with their cards or their guns, for the big stakes. With Varmints so easy to create players may go through 2 or 3 in a session. Death should be laughed at. A bottle of bourbon (for adult players only) is the perfect real-life prop. Have fun and remember to say Consarnit, Dangnabbit, Confounded, Damnation and Blazes, a lot!

As an afterthought, the Card Sharks© system could apply for Swashbuckling Card Sharks (pirates and dodgy 18th C. merchants) or the High-Rollin Card Sharks Carlo (swinging underhanded adventures in the 18th C. Mediterranean Mecca of gambling).

Disclaimer
The author does not encourage drunkenness, gambling, weeks without bathing, smoking or gun-fighting by players in real life.

APPENDIX 1: What to do in the Wild West before you’re dead…

Professions for Varmints and Other Folk in the West
Gunslingers: Professional killers and tournament shooters, always looking for the next showdown.
Sheriffs/Lawmen/John Law: Often ex-army they and their Deputies attempt to maintain some order. Sometimes mayor & hangman also.
Vigilantes/Bounty Hunters: Ex-army or ex-sheriffs distributing their own brand of justice. May act as escorts for convoys, “riding shotgun”. May act as hangman for a Sheriff or on their own.
Cowboys: The hardy folk that raise cattle in the Wild West.
Card Sharks: Professional gamblers who know how to handle their liquor and their guns.
Preachers: Civil leaders that command respect with their chin-dancing (preaching) and their sharp-shooting. Sometimes Mayor also.
Undertakers: Always plenty of work for marble hat makers.
Bankers & Post Office workers: Good with numbers and words, good with guns also.
Judges: Travelling Lawman that preside over circuit courts, may deputise to Sheriffs for minor offences.
Miners: Hardworking folk digging for gold. Handy with guns due to risk of robbery.
Engineers: Mechanical minded drivers and repairers of the newly built railroads. Good with guns.
Injuns: Native folk with handy axe throwing, tracking, riding and rifle shooting skills.

Harebrained Schemes
Start a Mining Company (or any other business listed below)
Great Train Robbery
Track a Wanted Criminal
Ride a Crooked Sheriff out of Town
Rob a Town/Bank
Become Sharp-shooting/Showdown Champion
Establish a Cattle Ranch
Start Your Own Town
Revenge for Whatever you like…
Be an Explorer
Build a Casino or Brewery

What’s in a Town
A Saloon (or 2 or 3) with Rooms
A Bank
A Post Office
A Church
An Undertaker
A Sheriffs Office & Jail
Some Houses
A Bath House
A Smith & Stable

Example Varmint Specialties (make up your own)
Brawling, Boxing, Wrestling, Knife Fighting, Pistol Use, Quick Draw, Showdowns, Rifle Use, Axe Throwing, Bow Use
Horse Riding, Wagon Driving, Canoeing, Sailing, Engine Driver, Running
Alcohol Tolerance, Wilderness Survival, Swimming, Tracking
Preaching, Smooth Talking, Dancing, Singing, Lying, Intuition, Perception, Gambling
Food & Drink Preparation, Embalming, Gallows Building, Carpentry, Numeracy, Literacy, Law, Animal Handling, Smithing, Gun-smithing, Mining, Locksmithing, Engineering, Acrobatics, Piano Playing, Navigation, Speak Injun or French or Spanish
Luck, Wealth, Toughness, Reputation, Lighting Reflexes, Immunity to…, Guardian Angel, Quick Healer

The Governor may allow Faults also. Each Fault allows a Varmint to select an additional Specialty. As always the Governor allocates the scores for both Faults and Specialties.

Weirdness
Make life interesting for the Varmints with the occasional weird occurrence: A Werewolf, vampire or ghost perhaps. Maybe a mysterious and deadly swamp. Use them sparingly, but scare the skin off ‘em when you do.

APPENDIX 2: Degrees Of Success Examples

Degree of Success Score vs Difficulty When Blowing a Safe
Marginal +0 to +3 The door or hinge is damaged, but won’t open without further persuasion. Any nearby Varmints may be injured by the blast or flying debris
Minor +4 to +6 The door is partially opened, but jammed.
Major +8 to +11 The door is fully opened.
Extreme +12 or more The explosion causes minimal surrounding damage or excessive noise and the door comes clean off.
Make one test per attempt.

Degree of Success Score vs Difficulty When attempting to smooth talk someone
Marginal +0 to +3 They are unimpressed, but still listening
Minor +4 to +6 They trust you to a certain extent but may not act at all
Major +8 to +11 You are convincing in your speech and they consider acting upon it
Extreme +12 or more They consider your words gospel and will act on them
Make one test per minute of speech or if a significant event occurs.

Degree of Success Score vs Difficulty When building a mine
Marginal +0 to +3 Progress is slow, the excavation is unstable
Minor +4 to +6 Progress is moderate but difficult, the excavation is mostly stable and you may find some semi-precious minerals
Major +8 to +11 You make productive progress, the mine is relatively safe and you may find precious minerals
Extreme +12 or more The earth virtually opens up for you and you are producing good yields.
Test for yields of minerals each week, test safety as each 5m section of excavation is dug.

Degree of Success Score vs Difficulty When Drinking a Lot
Marginal +0 to +3 You remain relatively coherent and alert – don’t try any thing strenuous though
Minor +4 to +6 You handle your liquor well and can undertake light exertion
Major +8 to +11 You remain alert, coherent and able to look after yourself.
Extreme +12 or more “Is this water?!?” The alcohol has no effects at all.
Test after each drink with difficulty starting at 10 for the first drink and increasing by 2 for each drink.

Degree of Success Score vs Difficulty When Surprised
Marginal +0 to +3 You are mildly surprised but able to act belatedly (-1 to test)
Minor +4 to +6 You are not surprised and can react normally
Major +8 to +11 You are not surprised and can react normally
Extreme +12 or more You almost anticipate your opponent and can act first (+1 to test)
Test when an opponent attempts to surprise. The table can be used in reverse when a Varmint attempts to surprise an opponent.

Degree of Success Score vs Difficulty When Brawling
Marginal +0 to +3 You barely rattle your opponent landing only glancing blows
Minor +4 to +6 You land the occasional telling blow
Major +8 to +11 You deal severe blows
Extreme +12 or more You land a KO or make a submission hold
Test every round of combat (6 seconds)

APPENDIX 3: Gun-Slingin’ Card Sharks Technical Notes

Description of Difficulty Ratings

The following table indicates how difficult a task is for Varmint’s of varying characteristics scores. Note that it includes no specialty scores, which can be as high as +10. In theory an Above Average Varmint with a relevant +10 specialty could attempt a task with a difficulty rating as high as 55 (3 Aces = 45). Furthermore, if Varmints choose to “bust their gut” they may contribute a further 26 points, with 2 Kings. Therefore the absolute potential maximum effort that could be applied would be 78! A task of this difficulty is almost unimaginable in its difficulty, complexity and magnitude of outcome. Think Moses and the Red Sea!

Varmint Characteristics
Difficulty Below Average (1 Card) Average (2 Cards) Above Average (3 Cards)
10 Very Easy 95% Totally Routine 99% Totally Routine 100%
15 Challenging 40% Very Easy 97.5% Totally Routine 100%
20 Impossible 0% A Little Tricky 90% Very Easy 95%
25 Challenging 47% Not Very Hard 85%
30 Extremely Difficult 25% Challenging 40%
35 Impossible 0% Very Difficult 30%
40 Virtually Impossible 2%
45 Miraculous <1%

Tasks and their Difficulty Ratings

10: Riding a horse slowly on firm flat ground. Lifting 50 lbs (20kg).
15: Shooting a man-sized target at 20 paces. Galloping on firm flat ground. Lifting 100lbs (40kg).
20: Shooting an opponent in a showdown, or a partially concealed target. Jumping a horse across a narrow stream. Lifting 150lbs (60kg)
25: Shooting a small target or concealed opponent. Galloping across rough ground. Lifting 200lbs (80kg). Cheating unnoticed against novice gamblers.
30: Sweet talking a Deputy (Smarts 2) to release you for a minor offense. Shooting a distant target. Lifting 250lbs (100kg). Cheating against a single experienced gambler.
35: Pleading your case against several credible witnesses. Lifting 300lbs (120kgs). Leaping from an upper story window and shooting someone across the street.
40: Cheating a table of expert gamblers. Leaping from an upper story window, shooting someone and landing on your waiting horse.

From here on, for more outlandish daredevil actions just keep going: 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70!

Well, as to the point about originality, not only is there a game based on a deck, but a western game at that. It's called Dust Devils, and you can read more about it on their Forum here:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=30&sid=

or at the website:

http://www.chimera.info/

That said, it's interesting how different these two games are despite the obvious similarities, and having been devloped at about the same time.

Mike

Hi there,

I'd like to emphasize that redundancy is a fine thing. As with the recent thread on the Frankenstein's Monster game (and its similarities to My Life with Master), my big Moderator comment is that "H'mm, that's happening in this game already" is not saying, "So forget it."

Continuing to work on and to discuss a variety of games that overlap in any any (setting, system, whatever) is a good thing. Mike rightly points out that the current system design doesn't share certain goals or modes of play with Dust Devils, and that's good enough for me to indicate that it deserves some air play of its own.

Besides, I love the idea of calling player-characters Varmints. That might even be a great title for the game.

Best,
Ron

Thanks for the latitude, I can see that Dust Devils is quite similar in certain ways!

With regard to the probabilities can someone tell me how to calculate the odds more precisely for the value of a 1, 2 or 3 card hand? I worked on the principle that the average value of a single card drawn from a full deck is about 8, in the same way that the average roll on 1d6 is 3.5 (assuming picture cards have the following values (J=11, Q=12, K=13, A=15). What messes me up is the average value of the 2nd and 3rd card from a 51 and 50 card deck subsequently. It gets even worse when you have to account for 1 or more other players (with up to 5 cards in their hands)... are these odds calculable??? Thanks.


Daniel (not a stats major) Bullen