So, I've been thinking about a lot of things recently. Why I'm always *on the verge* of buying miniatures, dungeon-scapes, dungeon-tile fonts, etc. Why, basically, dungeon crawl trappings appeal to me when I hate whiffs and bookkeeping and pointless wondering alternating with pointless combat.

The conclusion that I arrived at is that it's not the trappings per se that are interesting. The trappings provide atmosphere, but in order for me to have enjoyment, there must be something *interesting* going on. This is why games like Mage Knight bore me to tears, even when I get all excited from looking at them in stores (and even sink money in them, sometimes). There's nothing *important* happening to keep me engaged. I'm reminded if the cistern scene in Sabriel: That cistern is just the coolest location to me. But it's what's *going on* there that makes it an interesting read.

So, I started thinking all these thoughts about how drama could be added to dungeon crawl games. Then it got me... it's not really a dramatic dungeon crawl that I'm looking for; I'm looking for drama with dungeon crawl trappings.

So again, I start thinking about what could have dungeon crawl trappings, but interesting drama. Aha! Solo gaming! Lone Wolf!

So so so, I dig up all the old Forge threads on solos and game books. Lots of good stuff there. And, I found what I was looking for. Two ideas working together:

Idea #1: Give characters an "ethics" meter that changes depending on the choices they make during the game.

Idea #2: Have a big web of adventures, where each single adventure has multiple exits leading to different adventures.

Viola! Solo Narrativism. Sorta. (I guess it's actually a cross between Narrativism and Illusionism.) The GM (the writer of the adventures) presents many potential stories, while the narrative choices of the player defines the story that is actually experienced. And I do mean "narrative choices."

The existence of multiple future adventures means that I can offer choices to the player like: "Do you kill the bad dude and take his place?" If yes, then the adventure will eventually lead to an exit that points to an adventure where the character has become the Evil Overlord. If not, then a different exit will be reached. This is cool, because it allows an unusual degree of player control for the solo medium: You can actually play an evil character if you wish.

It would be a lot of work to write, but it could be a fun long-term project.

Anyway, so I've been banging out some game mechanics for it. Since what I'm aiming at is pretty much "dramatic dungeon crawl" I figured it'd be a good idea to keep the ethics bit pretty clear cut. Obvious choice: Sword & Sorcery style good vs. evil. I didn't want things to be quite that clear cut, though, so I came up with a three layer scale of Dark, Grey, and Light. Here's how it works:

The character's balance between good and evil is tracked by a row of boxes on the character sheet. On the left are three black boxes labled "dark." In the center are two grey boxes labled "shadow." On the right are three white boxes labled "light." The character's current status is indicated by circling one of the boxes. Certain choices in the game (so-called "weighted" choices) will shift the character's balance between good and evil. Such a choice will cause the circle to be moved a number of boxes to the right or the left. The player will not be able to recognize these choices until after he has already made them, as the consequences of the choice will not be given until the player has turned to the appropriate section.

Other choices, called "fated" choices will be determined by a die roll based on the character's balance - the idea being that the character's past choices have determined his destiny. There will be more "fated" choices than "weighted" choices. (Be careful with these... potentialy frustrating deprotagonization.)

There are three potential outcomes for a "fated" choice: Light, Shadow, and Dark, corresponding to the three types of boxes on the character sheet. When a die roll is called for, roll the special eight-sided game die.

Note:

Game die is basically:

+1 and reroll
+1
+1
0
0
-1
-1
-1 and reroll

Sounds like a great idea.

If you have a file with a collected list of Forge threads and other resources dealing with the subject that you'd be willing to share, by the way, please send me a private message.

I like the ethics mechanic, although I would hesitate about having an overabundance of "fated" choices because it would mean you can become trapped by previous choices and you end up going in one direction despite your best intentions and conscious choices to the contrary. (Although from a dramatic perspective, maybe what I just said argues in favor of it...) Is that what you meant by "deprotagonization"?

So, where do the toy soldiers fit in all this? Is it a case of "turn to page 113 and set up Dirt Cheep Dungeon #3"? Could be a cool feature...

Dave
who also read and loved Sabriel

ADGConscience wrote:
If you have a file with a collected list of Forge threads and other resources dealing with the subject that you'd be willing to share, by the way, please send me a private message.

I like the ethics mechanic, although I would hesitate about having an overabundance of "fated" choices because it would mean you can become trapped by previous choices and you end up going in one direction despite your best intentions and conscious choices to the contrary.

(Although from a dramatic perspective, maybe what I just said argues in favor of it...) Is that what you meant by "deprotagonization"?

So, where do the toy soldiers fit in all this? Is it a case of "turn to page 113 and set up Dirt Cheep Dungeon #3"? Could be a cool feature...

The more I think about this the more I like it.

Would an adventure be based around a mostly pre-generated but customizable character? You could have the "Dashing Rogue" adventure line, the "Shining Palading" line, etc. How cool would it be to give characters something like Spiritual Attributes in TRoS or the Personal Struggle in Synthesis to give players something to base their character's actions on?

Well... I was leaning in that direction originaly, but the concensus is that minis are a bad idea for solo games. Plus, I can't expect everyone to have DCDs.

C. Edwards wrote:
Would an adventure be based around a mostly pre-generated but customizable character? You could have the "Dashing Rogue" adventure line, the "Shining Palading" line, etc. How cool would it be to give characters something like Spiritual Attributes in TRoS or the Personal Struggle in Synthesis to give players something to base their character's actions on?

I could see a game like this being packaged like a standard boxed adventure. Extensive maps, a "world-book" to help players learn some background on where the adventure takes place, a miniature with a MageKnight like base to keep track of... whatever, maybe the light/shadow/dark aspect.

If not a miniature, then some sort of icon or token that the player could use to keep track of the characters location on the maps.

I'll take two. Wrap one up and I'll read the other on the way home. ;)

Yes, this is important. I'm thinking a single sheet for cardstock counters / paper figures, would be good. Also, the special 8 sided game die would be printed on the sheet, to be cut out and glued. :)

OTH, it seems like it would be more dramaticaly appropriate to have a pre-made *background* with character *effectiveness* (choosing skills, equipment, starting balance, etc.) customized by the player. Any preferences either way?

Hehe, thanks Chris. This is the kind of feedback that makes you want to stop toying with design, and start writing the project! :)

C. Edwards wrote:
Does anyone else have this pet peve? I love dice but I absolutely despise paper dice. Personally, I would much prefer, say, a spinner like in Twister.

Also, I would think that a counter/character token could be made out of cardstock where the bottom piece turns (like a Mage-Knight base, what is it with that game?) and the top piece has a little window where you can read whatever stat or stats are being kept track of. I've seen little drink mixing cardstock disks like that, you rotate to the drink you want to make and in the window is a list of ingredients.

Will the only facet of a character that affects adventure decisions be the light/shadow/dark aspect, or will there potentially be choices like "To overcome this obstacle using Sorcery turn to page 38, to use Martial Skill turn to page 52, to use Wits turn to page 124"?

The idea I have in mind is something like Lone Wolf. You have a more or less set character background in terms of major events. But the player gets to choose skills that have a game effect.

Maybe something simpler would be in order, along the lines of a Saves system. IOW, "if you wish to try and climb the wall, roll a save vs. Athletics. Turn to 12 if you win, turn to 56 if you fail." The character would have a bunch of attributes that the player could distribute points to at the beginning of the game.

This is not a bad idea. I'm thinking of something like those old Secret Decoder dials. Couldn't you put them together with just paper fasteners?

Right now the plan is to make these strictly paper oriented, each adventure being about magazine length (150 - 200 paragraphs).

This thread keeps exciting me because these extremely cool, innovative ideas keep popping up in my mind. Sadly, I'm a little dumb, and they stay just at the edge of my consciousness. So what I'll do is rearrange the breadcrumbs and see if anyone else gets the same idea.

The turning wheel offers a lot of possibilities, not just for resolution but for nuanced resolution, like, "fight monster" plus "use sorcery".

C. Edwards wrote: I've seen little drink mixing cardstock disks like that, you rotate to the drink you want to make and in the window is a list of ingredients.

In the past I've been interested myself in making a full-functioning solo game. Primarily this was because it took a while for me to get involved with a gaming group, so between the time I dragged my dad and brother through TOON, D&D and STAR WARS adventures and got to play with some other group there was something like a ten year gap. (I compensated for the void by running groups of characters through my own adventures, feigning ignorance of upcoming events- I still do this sometimes.)

The one problem I see is replayability. Most solo games are based on the CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE model, which is to say they're a bit like a single-player video game, where you've got to overcome the obstacles in a particular adventure or module. Once played, you know what's going to happen, so it tends to be the same game if you replay it. The question would then be how to add some kind of modularity or randomness to it so that you can play over and over again, while not being so random as to be implausible or just incoherent. ("Okay, I killed the dragon- what, there's another one in the next room?!")

One game that got ever-so-close to this was, I think, GW's WARHAMMER QUEST, which was a big expensive HEROQUEST-type thing with miniatures and floor tiles. The idea was you'd pick an end room and goal from the Quest Book (or something, don't have it with me), but between the entrance and there the dungeon could be laid out in just about any manner (you drew cards to see what room was next and what encounter was there), so you wouldn't know what kind of encounter was coming up. Tended towards the random side, obviously, but it was more successful at this sort of thing than any other game I've run across before or since.

So, unpredictability needs to be a big factor in creating what would, to me, be a truly successful solo RPG.

Replying to Chris and Evan:

C. Edwards wrote:
Will there be multiple (like 3 or 4) adventure outcomes? The thing I really disliked about the Lone Wolf books was that no matter which actions you took the book always rerouted you back into THE storyline.

How about just assigning priorities to to whatever aspect of the characters you decide to include, like what TRoS does (assign a rating from A to F for things like race, social standing, skills, etc). Each rating has a set number attached to it. So assigning a priority of B to my character's combat skills would give him better combat capability then if I had assigned D. This would greatly simplify character creation I would think.

Hi there,

Just wanted to say I think this is a great idea. I really like the idea of CYoA and solo adventures.

I was wondering though, rather than print, these books seem like they are tailor made for PDF---hyperlinks to take you to the next section, etc. Also, as a PDF you could have the game work around a big map of, say a dungeon. When a character enters a room, he can click on one of the available exit options (north door, south door, etc.) listed where the bookmarks usually are maybe, and it will take him to the room beyond.

Also, and I'm not a tech guy so I don't know if this would even be possible, but I think it would be cool if the PDF included some type of dice bot/die roller and depending on the outcome of the roll, it would automatically take you to the result (win=get treasure or lose=Dead ending).

Anyway, just some thoughts. Sounds cool though.

Pete

Ooh! Ooh! Yeah! I had this in mind as PDF for print, but a map with hyperlinks, that's too cool!

I'm doing some more ground work for the solo games. Here's some questions for you potential consumers:

Given that the character in these adventures is going to be pre-defined by me, then customized by the player (something along the lines of Lone Wolf), what sort of character would you like the adventures to center around? The choices are anything that would fit into a quasi-medieval fantasy setting.

Examples: Warrior, thief, wizard, artisan, etc.

Ethnicity is fine too: Elf, Dwarf, Barbarian, Goblin, Orc, etc.

And what about gender?


Now, given your character idea, what moral dilemmas do you feel would be the most important ones the character would face?

Leave it gender-free?

Hi Nathan,

I would like to see you take a page out of Silent Hill (PS) and have just an honest, every day guy start the adventure. What would be really cool is to have his path choices define what class he learns. If he reads the spellbook, he learns magic. If he picks up the sword and armor in the room, he uses that from now on, picks the lock on the chest---thief, etc.

Might be difficult to pull off, depending how in depth you wanted to go, but I think it would be neat. You would basically have to duplicate entire portions of the book to reflect what the character knows/what path he took. Frex a fight with an ogre would have to be included/modified three times to account for wizard, warrior and thief characters. Come to think of it, it might actually be more interesting to write a different storyline for each class/archetype, based around the same location. It would certainly increase the replay value.

Barring that, I honestly can't say what class would be best. A warrior or wizard are easiest to identify with. A thief or other more obscure class/archetype is more interesting to hardcore gamers because they haven't been overdone. What's your target market?

Same thing about race. Humans are simplest. Other races might be more interesting, especially after FotR and TT in Dec.

As for gender, well if you plan to let people roll up and play their own characters you might want to keep it gender-neutral. I'm not a big fan of this but it's practical.

One thing to keep in mind, if you do decide to go gender-free---it is a constant struggle to write a story/adventure based around a gender-neutral character. For one thing, it's harder to get a "feel" for and keep an image of that character in your head, for another you run into big problems with dialogue with NPCs, always being addressed as "Hey you!", etc. Then there is the matter of artwork and never being able to include your main character in any shot, unless your protag is based after Pat, of course. :)

I would suggest writing it as normal (using either he or she pronouns), then editing everything at the end of the story to gender free if that is what you decide to do.

Personally, I don't think you should, not for the main character at least. I think you should pick a character and a gender and make him/her the default. It gives the work more of its own identity---most of us can remember Lone Wolf, though I'll be damned if I can remember what adventures he went on.

It also helps create mental images of the character. I want to imagine Lone Wolf stalk into the tavern and glare at the patrons, or Lady Starra sashay into the bar and look at all the drooling men with thinly veiled contempt. Gender neutral takes that away and leaves you flat with statements like "You walk into the tavern." Granted, Lady Starra could stalk into the bar and glare, but if Lone Wolf starts sashaying around town, I'm closing the book. :)

Just my opinion. Hope these comments help,

Pete

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. The gender question was meant to be "should the main character be male or female" not "should I avoid using correct grammar."

The question about target audience is a good one. I'm not honestly sure who would want to read these, other than the few positive coments I've recieved. I'm thinking they should probably be aimed at experienced gamers, since the "cool elements" are pretty unusual. A new gamer might feel a little lost.

Having the character pick his class during the game is a really cool idea, and fits with everything I've already got. OTOH, it would be *extremely* difficult to do. These adventures already have tend to grow exponentially, meaning I'm going to have to limit the number of adventures in a single line. Having to include separate pathes for each possible class would humongify the whole enterprise.

Although, maybe it would work with a *separate* line of adventures for each class, taking place in the same location / starting situation. Hmmm.

Demonspahn wrote:

As for gender, well if you plan to let people roll up and play their own characters you might want to keep it gender-neutral. I'm not a big fan of this but it's practical.

I've kind of stayed away from this topic because I've found I've had remarkably little to say in spite of whatever ideas I might have had on the topic of solo RPGs before. But now I have a suggestion in regards to character generation:

Don't have any.

I'm serious. Especially since we're talking narrativist solo design here. How can you write a solo adventure that can accomodate every possible character? You can't. And even if you do it will be a 1000 page monstrousity.

I suggest you take a page from the solo gamebook series from TSR-- Super Endless Quests AKA AD&D Solo Gamebooks. (Strange how I find this series so well presented in terms of solo play) Each book was written for a specific character that was provided. Now, they didn't really use this to their advantage in most cases IMO, but you could, tayloring the story and the choice points to the character in a narrativist manner. The AD&D books did allow for some customization of the character. I suppose you could include this if you must, but I don't see the point really.

My mind flashes on the Kurt Vonnegut Jr story "Who am I this time?" AKA "My Name Is Everyone" about a man without much of a personality of his own who was in the community theatre who was a demon on stage who completely fell into the role given to him. Hence the title "Who am I this time?" I think a similar mentality would be beneficial to this concept.

However, the with this is that the character will not carry over from book to book, unless a particular character becomes popular and multiple books are written involving the character. I could see some form of metagame "points" that could be gained by the player and carried from book to book. Maybe points isn't the way to go but a level system for the player? Just skylarking on this idea.

So, that's my suggestion. Since your goal is to make Narrativist solos, it only makes sense that they will be better if focused on one particular character.