Paul and I have been batting around an idea for, well, way too long about putting together a small convention. When I mention it to people, they often say, hey, so-and-so was talking about it as well. So I think there's a lot of suport for the idea, and I'd like to test the waters a bit here.

There are some obvious questions:

First, is anybody already planning this, and just forgot to tell the rest of us? ;-) If so, this post may be moot. Let us know. Assuming that nothing has been set in stone by anyone, however.

Who to invite? Should this be a moderator only sort of affair? Or open to a limited number of people that are invited individually? Open to all Forge Members? Open to the public?

Where? As it happens there are a predominance of the moderators in the midwest, and as such, it might be easiest in terms of organization to do it in, say, Chicago. That said, this would be hard for Clinton to get to, for example, and others as well, I'm sure. OTOH, it has to be set in some location, and Chicago is sorta central, demographics-wise. Also depends on the "who" question above.

Length? For most a weekend is more doable, but a four day would be fun. There may be other options as well.

Focus? Just to game, or more serious stuff like networking, and seminars, etc. (If we could get Kitowski to come it would be the perfect venue for him to give out the Andies).

Would you attend a convention? Under what circumstances? Would you be willing to help organize?

I am putting this out here because, I would really like to see such a thing happen, and I am willing to work to make it a reality. I think that this should definitely be done on some scale, and that it's eminently do-able.

Anyhow, please discuss.

Mike

I would personally be most interested in a 20-30 range Forge Members only convention (mostly for the ability to socialize with the people I interact with most often electronically). The more days the better as far as I'm concerned. It it is to be multiple days and there is to be some number of distance travelers I would suggest removing it from the greater Chicago area for expense reasons. I can pretty much guarentee hotel rooms (both for stays and for conference rooms) would be much cheaper that way. Going north into Wisconsin might be inconvenient for those haveing to drive around the lake but down state Illinois or Indiana or the Quad Cities area in Iowa/Il would probably work well.

Obviously we'd be shooting for what...sometime mid Spring...March/Aprilish?

I would certainly attend a Forge convention if the distance traveled is justified by the length of the con. For example, I didn't do DemonCon cuz 12 hours (round-trip) driving time for one day just doesn't work for me. However, I would drive 12 hours (round-trip) for a two or three day convention.

Yeah, what Jason said.

Also, what would we do, if anything, outside of gaming? I just got done sealing a letter to artist Chris Martinez, who lives in Chicago. Maybe we could do some kinds of "publisher" type things, or talk to artists, invite 'em, etc.

Ooh, a Forge "industry" type o' thing. Artists, writers, designers. That could be sweet as well. Kind of like a mini-SMOGCon.

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of combining it with Demon Con, so that the Forge thing is all weekend and the college thing is a few hours of concentrated gaming-only blowout. How does that sound?

A big part of this is that I think "Forge only" is a bit counter-productive, and by combining the two, we get "anyone welcome" with a dose of "Forge only" mixed in.

Oh yeah, and I was thinking of holding Demon Con a bit earlier, so that it's in early-mid May rather than early June.

Best,
Ron

We've been discussing adding hosting a convention to our five-year plan. Our thoughts were a "indie" convention. Not just for Forge members (or simply using the Forge definition of indie), but more for smaller niche publishers including free and web-based services.

A few crucial features:

• No size limit
• Located in the Twin Cities of Minnesota
• More players than publishers
• It's about the exposure, man
• Repeated every year
• Summer time before August
• Borderline and over-the-line games welcome
• Hosted by Impswitch
• And so on...

However, this is the bare knuckles of a really long term plan. We're not going to start working on it until we feel ready to commit to doing it every year from then on.

Anyone interested?

Fang Langford

Ron -- I'm with you in saying that we shouldn't limit the Forge con. I mean, if we can get the Forge "united" and having fun at GenCon w/ 20,000+ people, we can surely handle ourselves well with however many dozen "non-Forge" folks attend. Ralph, I hear you man, I really want to get together with my Forge pals, but I think we can do so, and still have others there, too.

Fang -- that sounds really cool. Kinda like -- oh, what's that indie comics con called? -- anyway, kinda like that. I guess in one sense, Forge con and your indie con might not be so different, but I get the impression you're talking a larger scopes, which sounds great.

This is a great idea - and I'd be more likely to come for a two or three day thing.

I do, however, disagree with Ron and Matt about having it be open. I would much prefer invite-only. I think an open convention will dilute the quality of conversation and play.

Of course, I think the Forge should have been invite-only and is too big, so don't ponder my opinion too long.

As can be inferred from my previous post, Clinton and I are in agreement.

Good feedback so far.

First, Ron, I was thinking of a winter con, perhaps in February so that it would be far, far from the other cons. So it might not coincide with Demon Con time-wise. OTOH, if we were to combine, would we have access to University rooms to play in? If so, that's a large draw as otherwise we're looking at having to charge a small fee so we can afford conference rooms, etc (there's also the possibility of simply playing in rooms, but I was hoping for slightly classier). I'm still kinda fuzzy on how these cons would work combined, however. Seems probematic at first glance. Can you explain a bit better what you're thinking, Ron?

What I'm hearing on time in general that longer is better than shorter. So as to make it more worth the trip for those further away. This makes sense. OTOH, if we have too few people show for the weekdays, that could be problematic as well.

As to location, it turns out that Chicago is not that expensive when it comes to hotel rooms (as long as you're not downtown). In fact for a site with conference rooms, hotel rooms are about the same all over. This is another thing we should mention in general, however. The nicer the location, the more expensive, unsurprisingly. We have to look at quality vs. cost. It's just that you canget better or worse apparently anywhere you go. South of Chicago does sound good for a number of reasons, however. I've been looking closely at Aurora, etc.

We seem to be split on attendance. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that we are very unlikely to be overrun with people from the public. More than likely it will just be us and a few others who show up. As such, it makes sense to open it up, IMO, as a larger attendance means lower hotel costs in general. We could just get a bloc of rooms and make it first come, first served, which would limit things getting out of control, perhaps.

I think we can also get a good combination of Gaming and Industry stuff going. I think the sensible thing to do is to set upa shedule and go from there. As people sign up to run things, the content will form itself. I can't imagine it not being good.

Fang, who is "we"? And what Five-Year plan? Is this something outside of what we're discussing here, as in you're going to do your own convention? I'm a bit confused.

Any other thoughts?

Mike

To be clear on what I meant by Forge only: I wouldn't have any problem at all all with friends and other associated "cool persons" not specifically Forge members showing up. But I'd be against (though clearly not against enough to boycott) any sort of general advertisement, come-one-come-all announcement type thing.

RPG has done that with their game-days and while I thought Game-day Chicago worked fine, overall it wasn't the experience I'd be going for with this. The best part of Game-Day Chicago was sitting down and gaming/socializing with Ron and Mike and Damon (forge regulars) and a couple select non Forge "cool persons" we played with.

I'd also be more in favor of a winter/spring con than another summer con...especially for a 3-4 day event. a 4 day con in June, then July, then August would pretty much exceed my SO brownie point limit.

If we think there is enough interest to get the ball rolling perhaps we should have a 3-4 member organization committee to set it up and ride herd on the project?

Valamir wrote: I'd also be more in favor of a winter/spring con than another summer con...especially for a 3-4 day event. a 4 day con in June, then July, then August would pretty much exceed my SO brownie point limit.

If we think there is enough interest to get the ball rolling perhaps we should have a 3-4 member organization committee to set it up and ride herd on the project?

Mike Holmes wrote: Fang, who is "we"? And what Five-Year plan? Is this something outside of what we're discussing here, as in you're going to do your own convention? I'm a bit confused.

Let me just restate to see if we're on the same wavelength. You are planning on doing a Con at some point in the future, proabably five years down the road or so. You don't have a plan for what sort of Con it is going to be exactly, so, if things work out, it could be the Forge Con for that year. Do I have that straight?

As far as resources, I am hoping that the cost can be shared. I see it mostly as just the cost for housing, food, and transportation, and these each person will provide for themselves (I'm sure there will be lots of room sharing). The only other consideration is meeting rooms. And that could be a cost shared by an entrance fee (or perhaps there's even a way around this cost). Perhaps I am naieve or missing something, but I don't see much impediment to getting something like this going. Just takes a little planning and effort, which we've all proven that we're capable of here.

We still haven't heard form most of the moderators. Jake, SLC is a long way; any chance you could make it? You too, Jared; any chance? I'll drag Sean there myself if I have to. ;-)

Anyhow, if there is to be any chance of this going off early next year, we have to get on it pronto. Ron, we have to clear up the Forge/Demon Con thing. Have you given what I said above any thought?

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: Let me just restate to see if we're on the same wavelength. You are planning on doing a Con at some point in the future, proabably five years down the road or so. You don't have a plan for what sort of Con it is going to be exactly, so, if things work out, it could be the Forge Con for that year. Do I have that straight?

Mike Holmes wrote: As far as resources, I am hoping that the cost can be shared. I see it mostly as just the cost for housing, food, and transportation, and these each person will provide for themselves (I'm sure there will be lots of room sharing). The only other consideration is meeting rooms. And that could be a cost shared by an entrance fee (or perhaps there's even a way around this cost). Perhaps I am naieve or missing something, but I don't see much impediment to getting something like this going. Just takes a little planning and effort, which we've all proven that we're capable of here.

I think if we picked the right hotel in the middle of winter in the midwest, and you're renting a block of rooms, we could probably get them to give discounts on the meeting / gaming rooms.

I'd volunteer to bring a DVD player and a selection of weird flicks, try to rent a media projector too! And the longer 3-4 day thing does sound better. I'm unemployed and on severance pay, looking for short vacations!

There was small con in Wi this winter too, now where did I put that flyer... :)

Ah, I get it now. I'm skeptical about the whole "Gypsy" thing. It would solve a lot of problems, but I definitely would not want it to ever co-locate with GenCon or Origins. Essentially, having it at GenCon would be not having it at all. As already all we Forge attendees do is Indie Gaming stuff.

No, I'd rather not dilute the event at all. That said, I suppose if a small Con existed that wanted to support us, one that we wouldn't otherwise attend, we could use that as a way to get this off he ground. Like I said, this would work with DemonCon, assuming that it was OK with the University. Otherwise it would be us supporting Demon Con, instead.

Hmm. Ralph and I were invited to Stormie-Con in Saint Louis. We could just invade that, I suppose. Anyone know of other conventions closer to Chicago that might suit?

Otherwse I'm just envisioning a hotel invasion somewhere.

Mike

unodiablo wrote: I think if we picked the right hotel in the middle of winter in the midwest, and you're renting a block of rooms, we could probably get them to give discounts on the meeting / gaming rooms.

I would go, sure.

OK, I think that we still have some issues to work out with regard to whether or not we want to combine with DemonCon (and, if so, how), but in any case, I think we have enough direction here to get this going.

The next step is to get a comittee set up. I volunteer, of course. Who else wants in on organizing this thing?

Mike

I hear crickets.

Anybody?

Mike

I volunteer.

Hello,

Mike asked me to comment on Forgecon vs. Demon Con. Basically, I'm thinking that Demoncon has lots of features to recommend it as a basis for Forgecon.

1) Spunky students in an environment with a central authority, rather than a freewheeling horde running berserk over a convention center.

2) Time of year: middle or late May.

3) Places to stay, including private homes.

4) Cheap (ie free) space for at least some of the time. (And I should add that I now have a home with an enormous amount of social space, easily enough for four or five groups to role-play in, for the rest of the time.)

5) Central location: Chicago.

I confess to personal reasons as well; I can't make any more conventions on top of GAMA, Origins, GenCon, and Demon Con. No way.

I don't have a full model in my head, although if I did, it would look something like ...

Friday & Friday night = Forge get-together and lots of activities
Saturday = Demon Con on campus for six hours, plus vending for indie publishers
Saturday night = continue play and maybe a Forge social
Sunday = get-together at my house (perhaps)

That's just a notion though. The Demon Con part might be two days, for instance (more vending).

Best,
Ron

Thanks Ron,

Just to be clear, there would be no problem being on campus? I'd hate to see the whole thing get disrupted by a beaurocratic problem.

If that's the case, then this does sound good. Does anyone see any potential problems? Location, date, etc?

It occurs to me that for Thursday, we could get a conference suite, and play games there. Anyhow, that's stuff for the committe (me and Jason) to discuss. ;-)

Mike

Where did this leave off? Are we riding on DemonCon's coat-tails? Just curious.

I'm interested in an update as well. Y'know, since Mike and I are the council and all...

Hello,

If it were up to me, you know what I'd say.

1) Demon Con held in late May, including

2) Strong Forge presence and "official" activities.

And that'd be it.

Best,
Ron

I think the idea of a Con co-locateed with Demon Con would work fine. I would definitely advocate that we do that, at a minimum. That said, I can understand if that's not enough to appease the gaming monsters here at the Forge. Might be too long to wait, fer instance.

So, post here with your thoughts on the matter. Do you want to see something else sooner? Maybe a small thing in the meanwhile in addition to the Demon Con thing. Or would it be better to just wait til Demon Con? Other ideas?

Let me and Jason (and anyone else who'd like to join the comittee) know here, and we'll make a decision sooner rather than later. I'd like to have a date set soon, so we can start looking into details.

Thanks for your attention,
Mike

I would love to see something else sooner. I would love to see that something else be nearly if not entirely 100% Forge members, mainly because I'd love the chance to game and interact socially with the folks here more than just the "general con" gamer crowd.

That said I don't exactly have much time to participate in the establishment of such a thing so my vote is cast from purely a self interested position.

Valamir wrote: That said I don't exactly have much time to participate in the establishment of such a thing so my vote is cast from purely a self interested position.

Re: The name "Forgecon"

Ron and I have had a long talk about this, and while we support an independent gaming convention with Mike and Jake (or anyone else) at the helm, we cannot sponsor such a thing. In other words, it can't be called ForgeCon, or have "Forge" in the title.

I know, I know - that sounds crazy and draconian. I apologize. Here's the deal, though:

While The Forge will support anything that has to do with independent games, we cannot sponsor anything, because we're not a business entity. The Forge can't publish games, lend its name to conventions, organize game groups, or anything like that. We will lend every ounce of support to any of these things, though, to include setting up discussion forums, lending a hand organizing things, and sending literature.

Hi there,

What Clinton said. Plus ...

I regard DemonCon as just another event in which Forge-promoted activities (namely playing!) are welcome. Same goes for GenCon. The fact that I and the campus club run DemonCon and do not run GenCon is irrelevant.

So that means ... same goes for any convention. Same goes for an Apartment Con, or Store Con (a.k.a. Games Day), or whatever.

Best,
Ron