First, read this interview with James Wallis.

Now, this is not supposed to be a "bang the drum slowly" thread (but see footnotes 1 and 2). However, I wanted to bring up Wallis's comments about the state of the gaming industry and his hopes for the small presses. Any thoughts or comments?

Seth Ben-Ezra
Great Wolf

[1] Although I am personally sad to see Hogshead go, as they supported a number of games that embody radical concepts in the industry.

[2] and because, among other things, Wallis gave back the rights to all the New Style games to their designers.

Well I read it and it's amazingly similar to my own feelings about the rpg world. Its stagnant , insular, narrow and unprofitable. And if left to the present status quo will NEVWR change.

If there's any chance for change in the rpg world it's going to have to come from those outside of it. The hobby as such is sadly satisfied with it's present status. I don't think it's reasonable after seeing the field dominated by the same old same old for 25 years to expect anything different.

Really? That's not what I read. I read about someone who had a great idea on how to 'make money in the gaming industry' (getting the rights to WFRP) and wanted to write a lot of cool stuff. I read about someone who went into the print side of the industry and found that in order to 'stay in the black' it was necessary to be a businessman more than a game writer.

And he got into it to write for the audience.

Tells me that my interests in 'buying print' is right on target. I don't want to own a business, 'nuff said.

Fang Langford

Well, I've run a small business myself (25-35 employees), and I have to say that it's not hard to hire people to take care of the day to day issues Mr. Wallis mentions in the interview. It seems to me that his distaste for the industry is a much larger issue in this than his dislike of running a business. At least that's how I read it. I think he took stock of his priorities, which the game industry wasn't meeting in the proper order, and he made a change. I'm sorry to see Hogshead go, but good for him.

Maybe he will find a new angle of attack, like the "philosopher's stone" he mentions, and some good change for the industry will come as a result.

-Chris

C. Edwards wrote: Well, I've run a small business myself (25-35 employees), and I have to say that it's not hard to hire people to take care of the day to day issues Mr. Wallis mentions in the interview.

GreatWolf wrote: I wanted to bring up Wallis's comments about the state of the gaming industry and his hopes for the small presses. Any thoughts or comments?

C. Edwards wrote: Well, I've run a small business myself (25-35 employees), and I have to say that it's not hard to hire people to take care of the day to day issues Mr. Wallis mentions in the interview. It seems to me that his distaste for the industry is a much larger issue in this than his dislike of running a business. At least that's how I read it.
-Chris

Which is why (like religions and unions) the 'old way' of doing rpg business has outlived its usefulness.

As for the interview, I guess James is just burned out. It happens. But in spite of their cool games (like Nobilis) by his own admission they marketed the game and [apparently] hold their fans in exactly the same regard as any other so-called big company supposedly does. And in the end he calls for changes, but all along did *exactly what everyone else is doing.* This is not an indictment. But why does everyone expect a writer (or artist) to be equally innovative as a business owner? James is a writer who followed the same business pattern. He did good and now it's over. It's hardly a statement on the industry or any of our 'chances' for whatever.

It's just one man's experience. You want to do it differently, then do it.
That stance against 'stagnancy' should also be applied to the business end of things.

Jeff

Perhaps I'm alone in a sea of raving Hogshead fans, but I didn't get very much out of his interview. It struck me much more as the bitter ravings of a disillusioned game designer than any meaty relevant commentary on the state of the industry.

I find it extraordinarily hard to sympathize with someone who turned his hobby into a business and then was shocked by the responsibilities of running a business. Don't ever grow beyond having gaming as a hobby if you're not ready to be a businessman. Its no different than the guy who likes to cook deciding to open a restaurant and then being horrified that there is alot of work involved outside of the kitchen.

In going over his weepy list of list of things he had to do that took time away from game design I could only say "duh". Welcome to the world of business. Every industry in the world has to deal with purchasers who don't pay their invoices in a timely manner. That's why accountants invented the "Recievables Past Due" account. Thats why every industry in the world sells their product with a jacked up price to distributors and then discounts it back down for timely payment...3% off if you pay with 60 days...that sort of thing. Its why credit card companies charge you $35 for being late with a payment. Even then big business writes off millions every year in uncollectable accounts. Somehow this situation is magically not supposed to apply to the gaming industry? Sorry...its how business works in any industry. If you're not ready for it...stay a hobbiest.

Sure distributors suck. Distributors suck in every industry. Its why Coke and Pepsi went out of their way to purchase up independent bottlers and distributos so they didn't have to deal with shitty distributors. Know what...when they realized what a pain in the ass being a distributor was they spun most of that back off cuz it was easier and cheaper to deal with the head aches of asshole distributors than do it themselves.

James Wallis wanted to create games...he wanted to be a bleeding edge designer. But then he turned around and made decisions based on less than bleeding edge business practices that gave other parties what he thought they wanted...and then got burned out because it wasn't what he wanted...getting out of the industry seems like the right solution for him. Gives him the chance to get back to doing what he wants

...but pitching a fit on his way out...I'm not impressed. I WOULD have been impressed if he had pitched a fit while still IN. He and Hogshead had built up a lot of industry cred. The kind of cred that could have been converted into something productive. The kind of cred that makes other industry people willing to sit and listen to you. If he was disgusted with how the business side of the industry was being run, he had the leverage to get together with other likeminded company owners and start doing something about it. Instead he chose to leave...thats fine...thats certainly his right, he doesn't owe anyone any more than that. But to bitch and moan about how bad things are without even attempting to change them, when he was in a position to attempt to make some progress in that area...no, I'm not impressed at all.

Valamir wrote: ...but pitching a fit on his way out...I'm not impressed. I WOULD have been impressed if he had pitched a fit while still IN.

What I mean is that he demonstrated that he has some real issues regarding the business end of the industry, and that he chose to air some of them on his way out "now that I don't have to maintain good relations with distributors, I can say what I really think" (or something close to that). I would have been far more impressed if he'd have aired the issues while still in the industry and had the cred to get people to listen and perhaps even join him on the soap box.

May not have amounted to anything...but then again it may have. Regardless, that would have impressed far more than what amounted to flipping the bird while walking away.

Valamir wrote: What I mean is that he demonstrated that he has some real issues regarding the business end of the industry, and that he chose to air some of them on his way out "now that I don't have to maintain good relations with distributors, I can say what I really think" (or something close to that). I would have been far more impressed if he'd have aired the issues while still in the industry and had the cred to get people to listen and perhaps even join him on the soap box.

May not have amounted to anything...but then again it may have. Regardless, that would have impressed far more than what amounted to flipping the bird while walking away.

Well, obviously you can speak from far more inside knowledge than can I. But I have to say, that its exactly that reasoning which is why things that are bad don't ever change for the better.

I'm an investment analyst by trade. A big part of my job is analysing how businesses get the job done. I'll never be convinced that "gaming" is somehow harder, has more obstacles, has more hostile parties, has more anything than any other industry out there. Its just a ludicrous concept.

Whatever problems gaming has as an industry are the same problems that face every other industry and are successfully dealt with in every other industry. It seems to me the biggest problem in the industry are businessmen who don't know what it means to be a businessman. They call themselves a business. They organize like a business, but mostly what I see are people who run things like a hobby and then bitch and moan and decry those that do things more like a business.

I see this running rampant through James interview. He gets upset that game companies don't put author names on the cover and that they're more worried about the line than the author. To which I say "no shit". Do you see the name of the inventor of Post Raisin Bran on the front panel of the cereal box? Can you give me the name of the guy who led the team that designed the Dodge Ram Pickup...will you find the team members listed in the owners manual? Or a little closer to home, pick up virtually any Milton Bradley or Parker Brothers game and try to find the name of the game designer. See it anywhere? Are any of those companies concerned with the "author" or are they concerned with the brand?

Please, its utter nonsense...like S John Ross's rant about AEG not crediting the playtesters is nonsense. Thats "hobby" thinking, not "business" thinking. The fact that dozens of persons including several "industry" persons chimed in in agreement demonstrates how much this industry continues to operate on a hobby level. On occassion, there may be a good business reason to put a name on the cover. Take your own 7th Sea as an example. You'd had a very successful run with L5R, had built up a fair amount of name recognition...you obviously know better than I the circumstances surrounding your name being on the cover of the 7th Sea book, but I'd speculate that it had more to do with AEG wanting to cash in on your name recognition to boost initial sales to L5R fans than any desire to "do right" by you...would I be wrong in that? That's business. If there is no cachet to the name there is no reason to trot it out. What possible benefit is there to XYZ company putting Joe Designer's name on the cover of the ABC Core rules. As a company shouldn't XYZ be more interested in promoting XYZ as a company and ABC as a brand than they are in furthering Joe's career? Of course they should. Thats normal and expected and totally business. If Joe doesn't like it, than Joe shouldn't sell his work to XYZ he should publish it himself and promote himself all he wants (which is the Forge's messages). The idea that XYZ somehow owes Joe something more than a promptly paid check (which I understand Joe often doesn't get which IS a problem) is ridiculous.

Industry people need to decide whether this is a hobby or a business. If its a hobby they need to quit bitching about the lack of money...hobbies aren't supposed to make money, they break even...maybe...if you're lucky. If its a business than they damn well better start thinking like business and quit holding to these ridiculous (from a business standpoint) notions of how things "should be". As for me, I'm currently running Ramshead as a hobby. I make no claims to running it like a business, and have no "business" expectations from it. The problems stem from being wishy washy about it. If James was interested in the purity of his hobby and his creative endeavors, than quite frankly he never should have tried to turn Hogshead into a business to begin with.

I hear what you're saying about burning bridges...but you know, maybe its time to build some new bridges and say "to hell with the old ones". Enough people moving in the same direction at the same time and the distributors can either come along or die. Easy? no. But James leaving is just one more person who had the capability and the credentials to get it started who decided it wasn't worth the effort. Personally, if it ain't worth the effort to try and change it, its a little hipocritical to bitch about it after walking away. Again, I'm not blaming James or trying to rake him over the coals...but I wasn't impressed by his parting tirade...spitting into the wind accomplishes nothing. As far as I can see he enjoyed the opportunity to vent, but there was little of substance to be taken from his rantings.

Do you see the name of the inventor of Post Raisin Bran on the front panel of the cereal box?

wfreitag wrote:

Do you see the name of the inventor of Post Raisin Bran on the front panel of the cereal box?

That might not be such a good example; I think the inventor's name was Post.

Valamir wrote: I'm an investment analyst by trade. A big part of my job is analysing how businesses get the job done. I'll never be convinced that "gaming" is somehow harder, has more obstacles, has more hostile parties, has more anything than any other industry out there. Its just a ludicrous concept.

He gets upset that game companies don't put author names on the cover and that they're more worried about the line than the author. To which I say "no shit".

Please, its utter nonsense...like S John Ross's rant about AEG not crediting the playtesters is nonsense. Thats "hobby" thinking, not "business" thinking.

Take your own 7th Sea as an example. You'd had a very successful run with L5R, had built up a fair amount of name recognition...you obviously know better than I the circumstances surrounding your name being on the cover of the 7th Sea book, but I'd speculate that it had more to do with AEG wanting to cash in on your name recognition to boost initial sales to L5R fans than any desire to "do right" by you...would I be wrong in that?

Industry people need to decide whether this is a hobby or a business.

I hear what you're saying about burning bridges...but you know, maybe its time to build some new bridges and say "to hell with the old ones".

John Wick wrote:

Valamir wrote:

I hear what you're saying about burning bridges...but you know, maybe its time to build some new bridges and say "to hell with the old ones".

Build them where?
Companies need the distribution chain. Or, at least, they believe they do. I don't see it, but then again, over the past two years, I've discovered a lot about my misunderstandings of how the game industry works.

It's a small pond and there's really not a lot of room to maneuver. Then again, I've already asserted my belief that a small game company (like Wicked Press or Adept Press) could make a healthy sum of money selling direct. It's like David Bowie said when an interviewer asked him why he wasn't making vidoes: "MTV won't show them. Why should I make a video for them if they won't show it?"

In the same vein, why should I try to sell my game to distributors when they aren't interested in selling it to game store owners who aren't interested in selling it to customers? Why not just make Wicked Press an on-line presence -- a powerful one -- and sell games direct? That way, I really don't care if I piss off the distributors -- what are they going to do to me? Boycott my product? They weren't trying to sell it in the first place!

So what would happen if Wicked Press had gotten together with Hogshead and a few other industry outsider types and decided to come up with a way to handle fulfillment that didn't involve John Wick and James Wallis sealing envelopes and printing shipping labels. Maybe a fulfillment house where you're charged a buck or two a book in "warehousing" fees, hire a couple of reliable people to work part time at the drudgery of fulfillment for a modest but reasonable pay.

John Wick wrote:
It's called Wizard's Attic and it's been in place for nearly four (?) years. In fact, I used Eric Rowe's services for both of my Wicked Press products.

We've seen some of those alternatives already with Wizards Attic and Tundra...but I think it could go much farther (and Ron's already thrown out some ideas in other threads)

Valamir wrote: I see this running rampant through James interview. He gets upset that game companies don't put author names on the cover and that they're more worried about the line than the author. To which I say "no shit". Do you see the name of the inventor of Post Raisin Bran on the front panel of the cereal box? Can you give me the name of the guy who led the team that designed the Dodge Ram Pickup...will you find the team members listed in the owners manual? Or a little closer to home, pick up virtually any Milton Bradley or Parker Brothers game and try to find the name of the game designer. See it anywhere? Are any of those companies concerned with the "author" or are they concerned with the brand?

The idea that XYZ somehow owes Joe something more than a promptly paid check (which I understand Joe often doesn't get which IS a problem) is ridiculous.

Valamir wrote:

John Wick wrote:
It's called Wizard's Attic and it's been in place for nearly four (?) years. In fact, I used Eric Rowe's services for both of my Wicked Press products.

Ummm, right. Which is why I said:

We've seen some of those alternatives already with Wizards Attic and Tundra...but I think it could go much farther (and Ron's already thrown out some ideas in other threads)