Originally, this game concept was called "Vesperteen," a pun on the word "vespertine" (meaning "having to do with night"). However, I soon discovered that very few people were familiar with "vespertine," so the pun just didn't work. So, I think I'm going to go with the actual word.

As I imagine the setting & tone, it's something like "Little Fears" + "Nightbane" + "Changeling" + "Buffy" + "Seven" + "Teen Wolf" + "Sorceror" + "kill puppies for satan." It's basically about the horrors of growing up as a teenager, tempted by the sins of sex, drugs, and rock & roll while dealing with puberty and all the changes you go through. But, on top of normal problems like zits and trying to get a date for the Prom, you have to deal with undeath, lycanthropy, or being a martian love child.

Here's how it works right now:

The game takes place during the Seven Ages of Man, that is, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19-years-old, the seven years where you can correctly be called a "teenager." During this time, you have to deal with being tempted by the Seven Deadly Sins (Pride, Greed, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Anger, and Sloth) each of which is associated with a specific kind of desire and a specific kind of supernatural power.

Pride -- Wanting to feel special -- Martians
Greed -- Wanting control -- Demons
Lust -- Wanting pleasure -- Gypsies
Envy -- Self-hate & angst -- Vampires
Gluttony -- Wanting to destroy -- Plaguebearers
Anger -- Blind wrath -- Werefolk
Sloth -- Fear of others -- Nightmares

Now, in this cosmology, supernatural creatures are just humans who have given in to a particular Sin so much that they have lost their humanity. Werewolves and Gypsies were once human and mortal, but they've gone over to the dark side and now must live seperately from humankind. The werefolk are not completely dominated by Anger, they can also feel Lust or even true Love, but they have a rage inside them that will not go away. It's just part of their nature.

But onto our protagonists, the Vesperteens. During the Seven Ages, the teens are at risk of turning to the dark side of Sin and becoming monsters just like all the other supernaturals. Once they turn 20, they're in the clear and become adults just like everybody else, but from 13-19, they are in grave danger, due to temptation and the confusing feelings of adolescence.

There is a large pool of black tokens placed in the center of the table. Each character gets a character sheet that shows the Seven Deadly Sins. Now, each time a character feels sinful (gives in to Anger, Lust, Pride, etc.), they take a token from the center and place it in the appropriate "Sin pool" on their sheet. Then, you can spend tokens to power supernatural abilities based on the appropriate Sin. I'll probably end up developing a Nobilis-esque table of guidelines for these, but I don't imagine you'd spend more than 3-4 tokens at a time.

Also, while the tokens remain in your pool, they serve kind of like attributes. A person "charged" with 3 points of Anger, will win in a fight vs. someone who only has 1 point. Of course, there's strategy involved too. If the 1 point of Anger is spent on some supernatural ability (like growing fangs and chewing on the opponent's leg), the 3-point guy could be disabled before he gets a chance to act.

However, the more Sin you collect, the more you begin to resemble a monster. Someone charged with 5 points of Lust would have an unearthly beauty with a supernatural attraction that few would be able to resist or call "human." Sort of like the Vela from Harry Potter 4. Scary stuff. Heavily Envious teens start feeling a thirst for blood. Gluttons begin to have infected postules on their body that spread the contagion.

Of course there has to be the risk of "going over to the dark side." This is where I'm currently at a loss for mechanics. I was thnking it would just involve gaining too much Sin of a particular type. But then the player can choose to spend it on crazy supernatural stuff (which might not always be convenient, especially in public areas or in front of your parents) or not take additional Sin, even if they probably should (since it's the player's prerogative in the current model). Any suggestions?

Also, I'm thinking that the only real Character Creation will involve players declaring what their characters' Good Intentions are (because, of course, the road to Hell is paved with them). Characters are then defined by their aspirations, empowered by giving into their desires, and destroyed by getting addicted to Sin. Sounds like a fun game, huh?

One big concern...

Despite the fact that that they are often associated with the supernatural, there is an actual group of people who are called Gypsies by many. Saying that they are the embodiment of the sin of Lust might turn some people off to the game. I knw White Wolf caught a lot of racism flack for their Gypsies book. You might want to use some sort of faerie creature instead?

Also, I'm not certain precisely what you mean by Plaguebearers.

As for your question, what if it was the use of the supernatural powers that moved you closer to the dark side? Say that the tokens you spend go into a particular pile... and when that pile hits a certain critical mass...

Stuart

Oops, I meant to put in a note about the Gypsies, but forgot. Yes, I realise that the name could be taken as being somewhat racist, but couldn't come up with a better term at the time. The idea of using the Fair Folk is a good one, since they're also known for enchanting mortals and seducing them. Consider the Gypsies swapped out for the Fae. Sorry about that.

I don't particularly like the term "Plaguebearers" either. I had originally called them "The Plague" or "The Contagion" but didn't like those terms very much. The idea is basically a group of semi-lepers who carry this horrible disfiguring disease that also empowers them. Jacked-up, ugly, infected mutant creatures. I was also considering the possibility that their ultimate "monster" form might be that of giant locusts (as in the apocalyptic Biblical plagues). What d'ya think? They're intended to represent an exaggerated form of the teenage concern with appearance and zits and stuff.

Along with Sloth & Pride, Gluttony is one of the real "loser" Sins. The Slothful become Nightmarish blobs of darkness and horror, the Prideful become dorky Star Trek aliens or cross-dressing Ziggy Stardust rock messiahs, and the Gluttons become the untouchable, infected lepers. Of course, nothings to say that you can't have high ratings in SEVERAL Sins. That's how you get Ziggy being a "leper messiah." He's got high amounts of Lust & Pride, with tinges of Gluttony & Greed.

As for your "critical mass" suggestion, I had considered something like it, but hadn't quite imagined how it would work. Your suggestion is a good one, but might be hard to do if the game's going to stay Fortuneless. What you're describing sounds similar to the way Limit Breaks work in Exalted, but there you're rolling against a number that's slowly increasing. Still, if Becky Sue knows that spending more Anger will turn her into a slobbering, hair-covered werecreature, wouldn't she just choose not to spend Anger?

It might work if there were some ways of triggering the stored Sin. For instance, if you insult a boy with Pride 7, he'll probably disintegrate you with his alien mind powers. That's how things should work. But how can we work that into the mechanics without making the GM pick on players with high amounts of Sin accumulated. Should I add some dice just to make the outbreaks of "monsterhood" more random and unpredictable?

Hey Jonathan,

It might work if there were some ways of triggering the stored Sin. For instance, if you insult a boy with Pride 7, he'll probably disintegrate you with his alien mind powers. That's how things should work. But how can we work that into the mechanics without making the GM pick on players with high amounts of Sin accumulated. Should I add some dice just to make the outbreaks of "monsterhood" more random and unpredictable?

Zocchi makes a very cool d7 that I've been itching to use for a deadly sins game. See one pictured here. Be warned though, Lou Zocchi has no distributor (long story), so the only way for prospective play group to get their hands on one would be from his booth at GenCon, or by contacting him directly:

Lou Zocchi
Gamescience
7604 Newton Dr, N. Biloxi MS 39532
phone 228 392 4177

Paul

Jonathan Walton wrote:
I don't particularly like the term "Plaguebearers" either. I had originally called them "The Plague" or "The Contagion" but didn't like those terms very much. The idea is basically a group of semi-lepers who carry this horrible disfiguring disease that also empowers them. Jacked-up, ugly, infected mutant creatures. I was also considering the possibility that their ultimate "monster" form might be that of giant locusts (as in the apocalyptic Biblical plagues). What d'ya think? They're intended to represent an exaggerated form of the teenage concern with appearance and zits and stuff.

Well, I can't really get into the idea of playing teenagers. I was one, and that was quite enough, thanks! :)

However, some ideas:

I always liked the Magic: The Gathering card Ragman. That's what I picture when you talk about Plaguebearers - basically an old shambling figure, tattered hooded cloak drawn over the face, gnarled hands wrapped in filthy rags. Brr! So, "Ragmen" might be a good term to use for your plaguebearers, or lepers, or whatever they are. Just a quick thought.

Also, for some cool locust imagery and usage, check out Jeff Smith's Bone comic book series. The Lord of Locusts is a really cool nasty.

Paul Czege wrote: Zocchi makes a very cool d7 that I've been itching to use for a deadly sins game.

szilard wrote: What about zombies? You could then go with the whole brain-eating-thing (for Gluttony) - and the physical image is pretty much the same, but it has a more coherent cultural referent.

Jonathan Walton wrote: Originally, this game concept was called "Vesperteen," a pun on the word "vespertine" (meaning "having to do with night"). However, I soon discovered that very few people were familiar with "vespertine," so the pun just didn't work. So, I think I'm going to go with the actual word.

Question-

Is /every/ Teen a Vesperteen? Or is it some subset of the teenage population? I've the feeling it's the later from your description- in which case, what distinguishes those teens? Anything? Or does Fate simply have it in for them?

And are you tracking Sin as it's spent, or as it's accumulated, for the danger point? Tracking Sin as it's spent allows for a more gradual slide to evil approach (which I think you're trying to play up). OTOH, it's somewhat obnoxious book-keeping.

And finally, do the ages actually correspond to any of the Seven in any particular way, apart from being a numerical coinencedence? Will your character's age have any mechanical bearing on resisting the Temptations? I'd suggest that at each year of a given Vesperteen's life, one of the Sin's is especially vicious in it's temptation- not in any particular order for everyone (each player decides for themselves). Passing that year, it becomes more difficult to be tempted by that particular Sin, or to gain Sin from it; perhaps only in conjunction with an unfaced Sin, or even just the Sin of the Year. So that a 14 year old that already faced down their Anger and was dealing with Sloth would easily gain Sin from Sloth, but hardly ever from Anger... unless they were Angry in some way that faciliated their Slothfullness.

Or something. :)

interesting concept... as for the problems you express with gypsies... why not succubi/incubi? (incidentally, I am watching "incubus" right this very minute. I am almost to the part where shatner gets raped by a goat.)

I like stuart's idea of the zombies instead of plaguebearers ... or actually, ghouls!

Actually, that reminds me.

Instead of Martians for Pride, may I suggest the Djini?

As, in Islam (quoted from memory a friend of mine, as we were discussing religion)- Iblis (an equivelent of Satan) was an angel of Fire, who out of pride refused to bow to man, who was made from mud, despite God's orders to the contrary. So Iblis was banished, and became the first Djinn, and originator of the race of Djini, who plague and hate man to this day.

More fitting that lil' green men. And more terrifying, IMO- while Aliens /can/ be scary, not in the same was a once angelic being, wreathed in flames and with wings of surpassing sharp winds can be.

Course, that's also the Nobilis in me. :)

Supposing you made use of the Good Intentions as part of this 'going over the edge'... Maybe using Sin powers is "okay" if you do it based on a Good Intention, but if you don't, instead of letting you off the hook it just moves counters onto a different Sin, or into that threshold pool Stuart was talking about.

That has the problem that it magically makes using Sin powers ...sort of... free. Maybe you can only use Sin powers in service of another Sin, or in service of an Intention, and there's some kind of degradation of points every time they get moved around...

Thanks for all the great comments guys. Really got me thinking a little more clearly about what I want.

Didn't know Vesper was a motorcycle. What do people think of the name "Vespertine" or "Vesperteen" overall? Is it evocative? I could always pick something like "Young Monsters" (too much like Little Fears) or "I Was a Teenage Hellspawn" (and run the risk of being sued by Todd McFarlane).

Drew Stevens wrote: Is /every/ Teen a Vesperteen?

And are you tracking Sin as it's spent, or as it's accumulated, for the danger point? Tracking Sin as it's spent allows for a more gradual slide to evil approach (which I think you're trying to play up). OTOH, it's somewhat obnoxious book-keeping.

And finally, do the ages actually correspond to any of the Seven in any particular way, apart from being a numerical coinencedence? I'd suggest that at each year of a given Vesperteen's life, one of the Sin's is especially vicious in it's temptation- not in any particular order for everyone (each player decides for themselves).

four willows weeping wrote: Supposing you made use of the Good Intentions as part of this 'going over the edge'...

Jonathan Walton wrote: Well, using the accumulation method, once Sin is spent, I wouldn't bother to keep track of it. What would matter would be the unspent Sin that you possess, so you could lower the risk of Going Monster by spending Sin, but spending Sin causes outbreaks of supernatural craziness and evil, so it wouldn't be something you could just do, without any consequences.

Then again, if we kept track of Sin spent, the kids would become Sin capacitors that would just explode into Monsters or unleash a whole ton of Sin when they neared maximum capacity. Still not sure what method would work best, since I don't have the rest of the mechanics nailed down yet, but it sounds like we have two good options.