Topic: Theme-Chaser: PDF
Started by: Tony Irwin
Started on: 1/6/2003
Board: Indie Game Design
On 1/6/2003 at 5:15pm, Tony Irwin wrote:
Theme-Chaser: PDF
ohmigod its finally here!!!! I've provided a link to the PDF version of the extremely sketchy/preview/drawing-board file for the Theme-Chaser game I've been working on.
I've been stuffing this down the throats of all my friends recently, playing it with some and just asking for feedback from others.
I've very keen to also get a response from some of the generous folks at the Forge. What Im especially keen to know is - are you able to actually make sense of it (to the extent that you could sit down and play it with someone) from this document?
Obviously Im so involved in it - and many of my friends have been getting an earful through every stage of its development, that Im worried that its actually now completely nonsensical to someone who hasn't been "in on it" from the beginning. I hope to get some of our playtests up on the "Actual Play" board this week for y'all to read.
Here's the link
http://uk.geocities.com/tony_irwin50/
PS. I'd really like to thank everyone who took the time to read and comment on the previous incarnations and said such encouraging things - its actually quite a kick getting it into pdf format. Kind of raced it a bit in my excitement, should really have spent longer checking spelling and grammer.
Tony
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07/01/03 Link edited - goes straight to site index now, as it wasn't linking direct to the pdf.
On 1/6/2003 at 5:43pm, Drew Stevens wrote:
RE: Theme-Chaser: PDF
First, the direct link doesn't work- if you back up a step and then follow the link on the webpage, however, it's just dandy.
Second, if you intend to publish, you'll need to either excise or get permission from the various authors of the Stages you talk about (Star Wars, Cybertron, etc)
Third, neat idea. :) Although I'm a little unclear... is this meant to be a competetive storytelling game (a la Once Upon a Time) or a particular structure for collaborative fiction?
On 1/7/2003 at 9:38am, Tony Irwin wrote:
RE: Theme-Chaser: PDF
Many thanks for taking the time to read it Drew :-)
You're right about the way I so glibly throw away trademark names like Star Trek and Cybertron - they will need to come out.
Sorry about the web-link, my computer was taking me right to it so I didn't realise that it wasn't working properly. I'll look at that today.
A friend this morning pointed out that the dice rules are incomplete - I haven't defined a "success" for example.
I should really have written a quick blurb about the game. Here we go...
The way its played so far, is that Theme-Chaser is a system for letting a group of players each succesfully tell their own story, taking alternate turns to describe new scenes (or "Acts") in their tales.
The system limits the resources like characters and locations (Stages) you need to tell your story, this scarcity encourages players to borrow other players Stages.
This act of borrowing can take two forms. The first is that you use their Stage in your story, and in return you have to incorporate an aspect of their Theme into your story. This creates an interesting interaction between the thematic material of the stories.
The second way is that they retain full control over their Stage as if they were playing an NPC in your story (but it could be an NPC bridge or NPC computer, not just a person), and this has created fun interaction between the players.
So in summary its a system for a group of players to tell their individual stories, but by limiting the resources they need for this, the system encourages them to co-operate and create interaction between the different players and their material.
I've only played it as a table top game (sitting round, narrating our stories verbally) but I think the strong turn structure would make it good for pbem and online gaming - there isn't much player interaction unless the Acting player chooses to intiates it during their turn.
There hasn't been much of a competitive element in any of the games I've played in. I suppose we've competed against the system in trying to find ways to effectively tell the stories we want to tell despite the constraints the system places. There's no rule that the stories players tell must relate in anyway whatsoever, but in all games so far we've seen a gradual merging as most players allow the system to pressurise them into sharing locations and characters. So I guess I'd define it as collaborative (rather than competitive) story telling but the collaboration is encouraged by the system.
Thanks again for taking the time to read it Drew,
Tony
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Edited 07/01/02 so that I actually answer Drew's question this time!
On 1/8/2003 at 7:33am, Shreyas Sampat wrote:
RE: Theme-Chaser: PDF
Hi, Tony.
First I want to say that this looks really cool. Admittedly, the terminology throws me off - the Character as a Stage is weird idea to wrap your head around - but it's a really neat set of concepts. I'd like to see this thing in action.
I have a few ownership questions. Is an Unpainted Stage something that anyone can use, without the permission of its creator, and thus effectively the Stage counterpart of a Group Theme? Can you Paint a Stage that someone else created? If not, then is the value of Painting a Stage solely in giving the Stage the ability to garner you Theme Strength?
Finally, I'm wondering about the utility of Time Stages. Have these had a great deal of impact on play? I'm finding it difficult to associate particular times with themes.
On 1/8/2003 at 3:01pm, Tony Irwin wrote:
RE: Theme-Chaser: PDF
four willows weeping wrote: First I want to say that this looks really cool. Admittedly, the terminology throws me off - the Character as a Stage is weird idea to wrap your head around - but it's a really neat set of concepts. I'd like to see this thing in action.
Yeah a couple of people have made that very point - I think that in trying to sound original, I've lost the "functionality" of the terms. "Tools" is less elegant than "Stage" but its easier to grasp how you could use characters and locations as Tools to build a story. I had called the turns "Acts", rather than "Scenes", in an attempt to distance it from Universalis, but I think that Scene is simply the best word for describing it. I'd also like to stick "Narrate" in the text a lot, as that's what the game is all about. A rework of the terminology is on my list for changes.
I have a few ownership questions. Is an Unpainted Stage something that anyone can use, without the permission of its creator, and thus effectively the Stage counterpart of a Group Theme?
When you start your turn you have to build your Time, Location and Character Stages; bascially set/frame the scene. You can't use anyone else's Painted Stage, but yeah you can just employ Stages that someone else has already introduced to the game but not Painted.
Once you start telling the story with that scene you can't bring in any more Times, Locations or Characters. You tell this "chapter" and then you wait untill your next turn to pick up the action a different time or location. The only time you can introduce more Stages during the telling of your story is by introducing one that has been painted with another player's Theme.
If you look at it in terms of Narration rights, when its my turn I have narration rights over the entire game world. I narrate anything happening for anything in the game world provided it fits the conventions we establish at the start of the game (eg. "Vampires are real", or "Its a Seven Samurai setting"). The only things I can't narrate for are Stages painted with someone else's Theme. So Painting a Stage with my Theme ensures that I have narration rights over that Stage for the rest of the game. Its something that's vital to the story Im telling and I don't want anyone messing with it. No-one can narrate for that Stage without my permission.
The Group Theme idea I put in at the end was really just me thinking "How can I play LotR in this game!". The idea of just a singular stage (like the ring of power, or a genie in a bottle, or the monkey's paw) that appeared at one point or another in everyone's story seemed like a kewl option to include. Its not core to how the game works though and I should probably have waited until I've thrashed out a comprehensible rules-set for the basic game.
Can you Paint a Stage that someone else created? If not, then is the value of Painting a Stage solely in giving the Stage the ability to garner you Theme Strength?
Yes you can paint Stages someone else has created. When you start the game you build three starting Stages and Paint one of them with your Theme. So if I build 9am, Washington FBI headquartes, and Fox Mulder, I paint Fox and so that's how I make sure that the most vital Stage in my story doesn't get tampered with. 9am and the FBI headquarters are still up for grabs.
Whenever your Theme Strength goes up you can Paint another Stage with your Theme. So for example you might think "Cool, FBI headquarters" and paint it with your Theme. However your Theme Strength only goes up when another player asks for narration rights to one of your Stages. So if you were purposely antagonising me by messing around with Stages I wanted to use, then I would simply never ask to use one of your Stages again - thus cutting off your ability to Paint more Stages.
So the way I intend it, Painting Stages is about protecting narration rights over elements of your story. Every time you waive those rights (by freely letting someone else use your Stage you've painted) you earn the chance to Paint another Stage. So a co-operative and sharing attitude will earn you more protection of your story.
I've rambled there - I hope that answers it ok.
Finally, I'm wondering about the utility of Time Stages. Have these had a great deal of impact on play? I'm finding it difficult to associate particular times with themes.
Good question! In one game I took "Werewolves" as a Theme and I painted the time "Midnight" with my Theme, specifically to see if I could get any use out of Time Stages this way. It actually worked really well. Everyone else took the opportunity to extend their Acts by winding the clock forward to Midnight. (one friend had his characters planning a bank heist during the day, they were scoping it out during lunch time. He then brought in my Midnight stage and used it to have the characters breaking in at midnight. If a Painted Time Stage hadn't been available then he would have had to wait until his next turn before he could move the clock forward like that). One of my trappings was "canine howls", so every time someone did a midnight scene they narrated canine howls in the background, sometimes using it as inspiration for new story threads.
So yeah I've done it but the trick is, like you said, finding a time that is very significant to your Theme. I should note that one player when bringing in my Midnight Stage, used it to create a flashback to a previous night - I just need to keep playtesting it to explore things like this and also find a way to write it up without bogging down the text with too many play examples.
These are great questions, its helped me to see lots of areas that I'll need to expand in the text. Many thanks for taking the time to read through it and think about it so deeply, I appreciate it a lot.
Tony