I've had an urge to run a mostly-Jedi star wars campaign for a while now, and I'm coming to believe that TROS may just be the best system for it, because of its detailed dueling rules and high potential lethality. In order to run a game, a few rules changes and additions would need to be made. Here's what I've been thinking:

Priorities: Social status has little or no effect in the Star Wars universe, so this priority category is removed.

- The Force: Each character's strength in the Force is measured by a new attribute, the Force. Instead of the magic/race priority of character creation, there is the Force priority, as follows.
A - Very Strong. Character can put up to 7 attribute points in the Force attribute during character creation, with an absolute cap of 10 later.
B - Strong. Character can put up to 5 points in the Force attribute during character creation, with an absolute cap of 7 later.
C - Weak. Character can put up to 3 points in the Force, with an absolute cap of 5 later.
E - No ability in the Force.

This force attribute is added into the calculations for the Reflex attribute. ie. Reflex = (Agility + Wit + Force) /2 This is to reflect the innate precognitive reflexes that Jedi have, mentioned in Ep.I

- Force Powers: IMO the most straightforward approach would to make various force powers skills, and jedi trainining into a number of different skill packages. This way a character's ability in the force is ultimately based on how strong they are in the Force, limited by their training.
These could be used in combat (telekinetically pushing robots, leaping around, etc) by using CP dice, to a maximum of Force attribute dice per round.

- Lightsabers: Making up stats should be pretty straightforward, with some additional maneuvers for throwing lightsabers, deflecting and reflecting blaster bolts, and so on. Lightsaber would have decent defaults to Two Lightsabers, Dual Lightsaber (Darth Maul's weapon), mundane swords, and martial arts.

- Starships: One aspect of combat that I've never seen an RPG model in an exciting or complex way is dogfighting. In virtually every RPG, it comes down to just a contest of die rolls, even more so than combat. It seems to me that TROS's excellent dueling rules could be used as a baseline for some very dynamic and strategic dogfighting rules.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

So you won't have any of the aliens?

Add a little narrative to the dogfighting, but yeah the combat rules might work well.

Aliens. Right. I knew I forgot something. So I'd keep a Race priority too, with costs based on how powerful the race's special abilities are. However, there are so many species of aliens in Star Wars that it would probably be best to just make them up as they become neccessary.

Using TROS to model Star Wars has come up at least twice before.. have a search through the forum and you'll undoubtably find some previous discussions.

One thing I would change about your system is that I would probably keep it a tad closer to how TROS does sorcery - race priority of (whatever) gives you the ability to buy force powers (like like Priority B gives you gifted blood). You then spend proficiency points to buy force powers. Maybe each power has a rating from 1-3 like the vagaries do (you have force push 1-3, force pull 1-3, that kind of thing).

Otherwise, looks good.

Brian.

Brian Leybourne wrote: Using TROS to model Star Wars has come up at least twice before.. have a search through the forum and you'll undoubtably find some previous discussions.

One thing I would change about your system is that I would probably keep it a tad closer to how TROS does sorcery - race priority of (whatever) gives you the ability to buy force powers (like like Priority B gives you gifted blood). You then spend proficiency points to buy force powers. Maybe each power has a rating from 1-3 like the vagaries do (you have force push 1-3, force pull 1-3, that kind of thing).

Otherwise, looks good.

Brian.

I'd just like to chime in and say that I want someone to actually go through with it so that I can play, too.

Jake

If my local game store was able to get a copy, I would likely start on it. I ordered a copy, but their distributor is out of stock. *grumble grumble*

I really like the idea of using the combat rules (ie. a Piloting Pool, 2 phases in a round, different stats for each type of vehicle, and maneuvers) for dogfights and other space combat, but I'm hardly an expert on dogfighting. Does anyone have suggestions for maneuvers?

Oooo, I would luv to work with you on this one.

Not necessarily Star Wars but at least in a sci-fi setting.

I think that the combat mechanics might need to be reworked to give fighting with guns the same thrill as sword combat though.

I think dogfighting could have some good combat mechanics too.

Gotta keep it simple though. Some oversiomplification in this case would not be a bad thing.

Hmm, actually this could work. Just as in ROS, only a few hits can kill, only a few bullets or blaster bolts can kill as well. If you haven't put the guy down after a few shots, smartest thing to do is run to cover, run closer and take some more, or run away.

Skill packets for piloting or drivers, for mechanics, for weaponsmiths, for soldiers, mercenaries, etc.

Man, I've got to play ROS though so I know how it feels in practice, not in theory.

Spicing up ranged combat would definitely be a good idea. Blasters are all point and click, so no preparation time would be needed.

All sorts of skill packets would be useful: the ones you mentioned, diplomat, crewman, bounty hunter, scoundrel (Han would have pilot and scoundrel packets), fringer (Luke would have pilot and fringer packets at the beginning of Star Wars, and would slowly improve his force skills as time went on), Jedi Knight, investigator (Obi Wan would start with Jedi and investigator packets, and by Star Wars he would have picked up the fringer packet too).

I would definitely want to slow down the progression of skill improvement though. In the movies skills are very static, while in TROS skills improve at a fairly rapid rate.

Michael Tree wrote: Spicing up ranged combat would definitely be a good idea. Blasters are all point and click, so no preparation time would be needed.

All sorts of skill packets would be useful: the ones you mentioned, diplomat, crewman, bounty hunter, scoundrel (Han would have pilot and scoundrel packets), fringer (Luke would have pilot and fringer packets at the beginning of Star Wars, and would slowly improve his force skills as time went on), Jedi Knight, investigator (Obi Wan would start with Jedi and investigator packets, and by Star Wars he would have picked up the fringer packet too).

I would definitely want to slow down the progression of skill improvement though. In the movies skills are very static, while in TROS skills improve at a fairly rapid rate.

Ok, so I was looking up the missile combat info, p. 82 in the revised edit. and my first question is- what is UP with the scantily clad archer chick flying through the air ON FIRE? LOL I dunno but I ended up studying that picture for longer than I care to say.

Perhaps a gun would have a shorter preparation time, because they are much easier to fire than arrows? But I think the aiming and the way the pool refreshes and is used would be about the same.

I agree, largely because it reflects what happens in the movies. (In case you couldn't tell, I care far more about genre conventions than some arbitrary standard of 'reality'.) In the movies, the characters don't fire continuous barrages of blaster shots, John Woo style. They fire one shot, wait a few seconds (perhaps ducking behind cover), then fire another shot.

RN3G8 4E wrote: Ok, so I was looking up the missile combat info, p. 82 in the revised edit. and my first question is- what is UP with the scantily clad archer chick flying through the air ON FIRE? LOL I dunno but I ended up studying that picture for longer than I care to say.

I've been thinking about what to do with the Dark Side of the Force, and I've come to the conclusion that it's best included as another SA.

To reflect its temptation and quick power, it can be taken as an SA over and above the five SAs that all characters have by anyone strong in the Force. It can be used in any situation where the character gives in to rage, anger, etc., but only when another SA is also applicable. A character can only harness powerful fear and hate when things they deeply care about are involved.

However, the dark side has a price. In any scene where a character uses the dark side, they don't get additional points for any of their other SAs, just for the dark side. In addition, a character can only spend his SA points on aggressive abilities, and can never spend more than half of their dark side SA points at any one time. (In other words, it gives quick power, but hampers growth in the long run)

Michael, what do you mean by spend? Why half? Otherwise I'm liking it a lot.

BTW, damage ratings for lightsabres? I'd call it like 20 or so? Yes, this means no grazes ever occur. Have you ever seen somebody grazed by a lightsaber? Nope, body parts just come off. Basically it's just a question of what gets hit.

I see lightsabre duels having loads of dice spent on defense. Which should work to create the longish duels from the movies. It looks offensive, but it's really not. Er whatever.

Make sense?

Mike

Just want to chime in and say I like where the Dark Side thing is going. Great stuff.

Jake

Mike Holmes wrote: Michael, what do you mean by spend? Why half? Otherwise I'm liking it a lot.

BTW, damage ratings for lightsabres? I'd call it like 20 or so? Yes, this means no grazes ever occur. Have you ever seen somebody grazed by a lightsaber? Nope, body parts just come off. Basically it's just a question of what gets hit.

I see lightsabre duels having loads of dice spent on defense. Which should work to create the longish duels from the movies. It looks offensive, but it's really not. Er whatever.

Make sense?

Mike

"They'll never get through those blast doors"

"They're coming through!!!"

I think that the DR should be high enough that human tougness should never matter. Even big alien tougness (like the one that lost it's arm in episode 4), shouldn't be enough. Also enough that tacking on ST should be like an afterthought. Basically I can see a ST 1 tiny alien slicing Chewbacca in half with a light sabre.

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: "They'll never get through those blast doors"

"They're coming through!!!"

I think that the DR should be high enough that human tougness should never matter. Even big alien tougness (like the one that lost it's arm in episode 4), shouldn't be enough. Also enough that tacking on ST should be like an afterthought. Basically I can see a ST 1 tiny alien slicing Chewbacca in half with a light sabre.

Mike

Its not that hard to back into. A Jedi should be able to slice a person even in armor in half with little effort.

Above average TO: 5
Nice solid armor: call it 6.

So Damage minus the above 11 should still regularly yield level 4 and 5 wounds...meaning add another 5.

So we basically need a hit which regular dishes 16 points of damage. Figure strength of 4 (none of the Jedi were very Herculean, but all were pretty fit) and 1-2 successes. The light sabre needs to have Strength +10 damage.

4STR + 10 DAM + 1 or 2 Successes - 5 TO and 6 Armor and you have a level 4 or 5 wound.

Voila!!. One could even say that 0 successes on an attack would automatically give a level 1 wound from being burned by a near miss.

On the other hand one might want a wider range of possible results for gaming purposes. After all, while all light sabre duels in the movies pretty much ended in 1 hit equals 1 chopped off body part we were only shown the particularly dramatic duels.

So a light saber might do things a little differently. Perhaps its STR + 3x successes. That way a single success with a light sabre does the same damage as a STR+3 Great Sword. But on a roll with 4 successes you're dishing out 16 damage instead of 7.

I prefer the second method myself.

I wouldn't add a STR bonus to lightsabres at all, myself. Those things do almost exactly the same damage whether swung with casual slowness or full-muscle speed, and if you can lift it enough to make contact at all with your enemy, it doesn't matter that you can't lift two of them.

I would suggest having them do a base DR 2 plus 3x MoS in damage levels. Thus you hit by 1, DR 5; hit by 2, DR 8; hit by 3, DR 11; hit by 4, DR 14; hit by 5, DR 17; hit by 6, DR 20.... Variation from nick to deadliness, but within a very narrow range.

Alternately, for a much simpler way of handling it, just indicate that neither TO NOR AV, no matter how high either is, applies to lightsabre damage....

Stephen wrote: Alternately, for a much simpler way of handling it, just indicate that neither TO NOR AV, no matter how high either is, applies to lightsabre damage....

Good point about struggling through the blast doors. Still, I'd say that was a lot of armor rating meaning that max damage needs to be pretty good. I like Ralphs solution. But simpler, just say that all damage is just doubled including that from ST (instead of just tripling the successes). This also covers the idea of halving armor effectiveness.

Then the DR can be based on the size of the weapon as suggested (and other modifiers can be adjusted for the different weapons as well such as TNs).

Call it the Rolemaster solution - this is much like how force swords worked in that system.

Mike

Hey, just a quick note. In the duel in ESB luke hits Vader in the shoulder during their duel, and Vader makes some sort of "aargh" noise, but he's otherwise okay.

So does Vader have off-the-chart armor on?

Blasters, btw, would have to be powerful enough to make stormtrooper armor pointless, unless it turns out that Imperial budget cuts have resulted in ST armor actually being plastic and used only for intimidation value.

Vader probably does have off the chart armor. Why not? If we can have lightsabres why can't we have armor that can stop it. Remember that, thematically, he's the black knight, invulnerable.

Or, that was a near miss, narrated as a blow that glanced off his armor.

Probably both. Either works for me.

BTW, I was thinking about the Force. It should be a positive SA. But at any point, the player can convert it all to Dark Side Force (TM), and in doing so double the dice (even if that means going higher than five). Then the downside is, as above, that you can't use your other SAs.

Thus you have the temptation to the Dark Side. The GM should only allow the character to convert back if he thinks that the character has had a powerfully redemptive episode.

Or maybe two SAs one for each side with the higher being in control? Hmmm. Lots' of options.

Think of The Force as a special Faith that helps the character to do pretty much anything he believes he can.

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: Michael, what do you mean by spend? Why half? Otherwise I'm liking it a lot.

BTW, damage ratings for lightsabres? I'd call it like 20 or so? Yes, this means no grazes ever occur. Have you ever seen somebody grazed by a lightsaber? Nope, body parts just come off. Basically it's just a question of what gets hit.

I like this thread... :)

Just thought I should mention, in the recent "Jedi Knight II: Outcast" game there is mentioned a metal that resists light sabers. Probably Darth's armor was made of it. It's rare but it exists. Just though I'd throw that into this mix. Treat it like mithril or something- very rare, very fine, and very tough.

RN3G8 4E wrote: I like this thread... :)

Just thought I should mention, in the recent "Jedi Knight II: Outcast" game there is mentioned a metal that resists light sabers. Probably Darth's armor was made of it. It's rare but it exists. Just though I'd throw that into this mix. Treat it like mithril or something- very rare, very fine, and very tough.

In my own Riddle of The Force, lightsabres simply dealt damage = level of success, regardless of armor, ST, TO, or anything else. This made them awfully potent, in the hands of a skilled user.

So if I swung with 15 dice, and Darth Baddie blocked with 10, and we rolled average numbers of successes, I would have 8 to his 5, and inflict a level 3 wound. Not perfect, but it seemed to work.