Hey all ... I know I don't come around too often, so here's a bit of a re-introduction;

I was at DePaul for two years and was part of Ron's Role-Play group there. Unfortunately, the music department didn't like me, and as I'm a music major I was forced to move elsewhere. Now I'm in Ohio.

But in coming here, I was introduced to something else; Live-Action Role-Play, or LARP for short. Specifically, I've participated in one NERO International event and will be going to another in March.

After my first event in December, I wrote Ron about how cool it was and he suggested I post here (I hope this is the right forum for this random bantering I'm so good at ....aaaaand sorry about the wait; I'm a procrastinator.).

Anyway, it was one of the greatest role-playing experiences I've ever had! Everyone's running around in a park in character, in costume, with weapons made out of PVC piping and foam (mine, by the way, is a wicked 6 1/2 foot polearm I've lovingly named 'Dog Killer') and spell packets made out of fabric, bird-seed, and rubber-bands! You have a body count and your weapon/spells do damage. There's a money system, an entire world with different countries, many different races and clans within those races with their own histories/rituals/quirks/etc (I'm from a felenoid race known as 'Sarr' which eat their dead in memeory of their fallen commrade) It was an absolutely satisfying experience to be completely enveloped in your character ... Afterwards, people were appologizing because they role-played their character doing something they themselves never would have (for example, My character (Kinsurri) constantly bossed around another (Athmyr) because she hates men and he's submissive; we were together at a table and he got some noodles, but before he could start eating I made him get me some.).

Attention is paid to detail; there's a plot team and NPCs and if you submit a character history, then there's a good chance you'll get included in the plot. Through play, your character increases in experience, level, and development. You can buy upgraded weapons and spells and lore, you can be an artisan, a weaponsmith, even a musician!

So there's my testimonial. :) Also, here are some websites to anyone of interest;

http://www.warweb.org/
Ohio/WV NERO Home (Where I'm centered)

http://www.nerolarp.com/
NERO International Homepage

http://www.nerochicago.com/
Chicago NERO Home


Enjoy!
Caitlin

Here's one of the British versions, run by a company called Curious Pastimes.

Curious pastimes website:
http://www.curious.u-net.com/

Some photos:
http://www.firesong.demon.co.uk/larp.htm

And me (top right):
http://www.simple2solutions.fsnet.co.uk/renewl.htm

Wulf

Hi Caitlin, and welcome (again) to the Forge! And thanks for the links.

I wonder if you're aware of the variety of different types of LARP game out there. Some of that diversity was discussed here last fall, on this thread.

One of the interesting facets of NERO LARPs and similar styles is the prevalence of particpants playing roles that are the equivalent of non-player characters in tabletop games. These range from cannon fodder combat opponents who exist only for a few minutes, to major allies and antagonists who define plotlines for the duration of a meeting or over a longer term across many meetings. Unless things have changed considerably since I last played in this style of LARP, at any given moment one forth to one half of the actual human participants are in NPC roles.

Even calling them NPCs is a bit of a misnomer in LARPs because of course they are in fact characters who are being played. (Of course this is true in tabletop games too, but in the LARPs the playing of an NPC is all an "NPC player" is doing, which is not usually the case in tabletop.) I believe that playing NPCs in LARPs is in fact a distinctive kind of play all its own, with different challenges and rewards than playing as a player-character.

So I wonder, have you tried any NPC play yet? If so, how was that experience different from playing Kinsurri?

And are there any other aspects of or questions about LARP play that you'd like to further discuss?

- Walt

PS Oh, and when you refer to a "body count" are you talking about keeping track of body points (hit points, more or less)? Or do you mean a count of your kills?

Oh geez! I can't believe I forgot to mention NPCs!!!!! Yes, they are extremely important, and we ran into all kinds during the one event I went to (I didn't end up NPCing for several reasons, perhaps the most prelavant being I had no idea what I was doing as a PC!); white wolves, trolls, vines-with-black-leaves, a baby bear, even the Count (can't remember of where) and the King of Stonegate were there (these would be those more in-depth NPCs you were talking about).

Sometimes they have trouble finding people to NPC, so the 1/2 ratio might be a little off. I guess it also depends alot on what chapter it is, weather, so on and so forth. The last one I was at had a good 20-30 peole, I want to say, and perhaps 10-15 NPCs (I'm horrible and guessing numbers). I'm not sure about other chapters, but at NERO WAR for a while the NPCs had to pay a registration fee. It wasn't as much as the PC fee, but it was still there. They just recently lifted it, and people think this is going to help with NPC turnout. I might do some myself in March if I'm feeling confident enough; this will only be my second event (and the first one was a single day thing, too), and I'll be there with my roomate, who's never done ANY roleplaying at all (double-whammie-newbie!).

'Body Count' does refer to keeping track of one's body (hit) points. I was deathly confused about that at the last event because the guy who introduced me to it didn't explain it very well. I eventually found someone who 'spoke my language' more or less; it can get really confusing if you're not careful!

I kind of knew that other 'universes' existed; 'Vampiric' LARPS were about the only thing I knew before I was introduced to NERO, and in researching that I came across just about everything else. On another forum, someone mentioned 'SCA'; Society of Creative Anachronism' which I'm currently checking out as well. Anyway, I'm gunna go check out that other thread when I'm done here.

I'm interested in hearing other people's experiences, any tips for roleplaying more effectively or trying to keep track of all the numerical jargon, or anything anyone has to offer ......

Whats funny is that the people I know who do this would bludgeon you severely with their boffer swords if anyone referred to it as LARPing.

The group my friend belongs to in Northern VA has some overblown (SCA inspired) acronym for whatever it is they call it. I

Amtgard? I know somebody that's in Amtgard but gets all upset when I started talking about LARPing. I just rolled my eyes at him. That's my favorite smiley evar.

Now to take my post ina whole differant direction.

I think a 1/2 NPC ratio is way off. Most of the games I was in they would be happy to get a 1/4 ratio going on. Maybe its getting harder and harder to find em these days. Though I will admit I haven't been to a LARP in a year or two.

-Joshua

Hey Caitlin,

Going with the theme of NPCs, I can say that every larp I have attended has been in need of staff/NPCs. Most people that larp do it for the immersion. In-character thinking is iffy for NPCs and deadly for staff, especially when the PCs pay to play. The NPC's job is to make it happen any way they can, always thinking about the game as a whole.

I love to staff/NPC because it gets me away from the whole immersion thing and into thinking about the bigger picture. I have been known to adjust my stats on the fly to reward clever thinking or to make a challenge actually challenging. I suppose this would be considered illusionism, considering the sim nature of larps.

Anyway, this is going way off topic. If you want to talk larp theory, let's go over to that forum. I am glad that you enjoyed NERO and are excited about doing it again.

Later,
Grant

Actually I meant to say "one fourth to one half" as the ratio for staff and NPCs, and it's usually closer to the 1/4 end. So Caitlin's estimates (10-15 staff, 20-30 players, if I read it correctly, or somewhere between 25 and 43 percent) are right in the range I'd expect.

Caitlin, I'll be interested in hearing about your experiences introducing your roommate to play, especially in light of your own experiences so far. It's interesting that after all these years, explaining the system to "newbies" is still apparently a cause of difficulty. By Ron's account you've experienced a wide variety of role playing systems (though perhaps not so much of the basic D&D-style systems that most fighting fantasy LARP systems are based on), yet you had to actively seek out someone who 'spoke your language' in order to get a clear explanation. That's unfortunate. (Were there any other newbies at that event? If so, I wonder how many of them will come back?)

Advice? That's hard, because LARP groups are so different in subtle ways that it's easy to give bad advice that would be good advice in some other setting. So I have to fall back on all-purpose advice instead. IIRC (and I'm not sure I do), this is one of Ozymandias's principles from Watchmen:

Observe carefully, imitate effectively.

In other words, when in Rome, etc. A LARP group of this type is a social body first, a game system a distant second. You can study the rules all you like but it won't do you any good if you don't also understand what the people in the group expect to get out of play and how they expect you to join in. For instance, if they're big on costuming, then you'll eventually get marginalized (regarded as "not serious about the game") unless you also show an interest in costuming. But if they're casual about costuming, then showing up in your homemade set of full plate armor will do more harm than good. One of the most important questions is how you're expected to behave as a "low level" character. Is taking heroic risks something that's rewarded or are you expected to focus on protecting yourself and not eclipsing your more experienced compatriots?* Be aware that the printed rules may be blatantly lying about such things; you can find them out only by observing the actual play.

As for keeping the numbers straight, if it's a matter of understanding the different numerical quantities in the system, that should get easier very quickly as you play. If the problem is remembering your character's "state" (how many of what kinds of points you have) from one encounter to the next, there might be various mechanical aids you could use to help keep track. A clicker-counter (a small device that counts how many times you click its button, available at most office supply stores) might be helpful for some things. Or you might be able to use tokens that you move from one pocket to another, or a bunch of thin bracelet rings that you move from one wrist to the other. (The latter not recommended for those with a "move silently" skill.) Or try a plastic pocket mirror (or other small smooth piece of plastic) and a grease pencil as an improvised mini character sheet.

All these are only good for updating between combats, though (except maybe for spellcasters' spell points, since the mumbo jumbo types usually have hands free and time to spare). Use the tokens or whatever to know your body count going in, and to update it afterward, but during combat you'll have to keep track mentally.

I find it helpful to add up rather than counting down. Going into combat, think of your current body points as "how many you can take" before something happens, rather than as "how many you have left." Then, you can start at zero and add the counts on you until they reach that "how many you can take" total, rather than subtracting each hit which can require more mental effort when you're trying to concentrate on fighting.

- Walt

*If I started sounding a little cynical here, it's because the level system in fantasy LARPs is something I've never been able to embrace. My inner Gamist game designer understands the rationales -- in particular, the need to have rewards available to motivate participants to fulfill staff and NPC roles** -- but my inner consumer activist keeps insisting that if I pay the same admission fee as everyone else, I should have the same play options as everyone else. If I paid the dues to join a golf course, nobody would tell me that due to my inexperience I'm only allowed to play four of the holes and only use two clubs.

**The rationale usually stated, which is that slow advancement is necessary because the system takes lengthy practice to master, rings hollow because even though three years of steady attendance might be necessary to develop a character who can cast a (say) eighth level spell, the game can only run smoothly if all players know exactly how to react to any spell of any level cast on them. If you want to avoid hearing things like "Hey, I said 'Maleficatorum', that means you're supposed to fall down and drop your weapon, asshole!" you have to know that "big book of things you can't do" pretty thoroughly no matter what level you are.

If you want to avoid hearing things like "Hey, I said 'Maleficatorum', that means you're supposed to fall down and drop your weapon, asshole!" you have to know that "big book of things you can't do" pretty thoroughly no matter what level you are.

It stands for "if I recall correctly." It means I'm the statement referred to is from memory but I have some doubt whether it is factually correct. Not Forge jargon specifically, but a general Internet chat and bulletin board expression.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Arcane Fear. (Consolation: I'm not psychic, I knew about this problem because it happens a lot. Which means no one else will likely remember your "miscalculation.") But though experienced Forge-ites might find it interesting to delineate the at least three distinctly different types of "deprotagonization" (now that IS Forge jargon!) you described in that one paragraph, I'd rather go back to talking about the positives of "one of the greatest role-playing experiences [you've] ever had."

What, for you, was the best aspect of the live action play, compared to the tabletop games you've played? Was it the physical combat, the "solidity" of a partly real rather than purely imagined world to explore, the expectation of "staying in character," or something else? Was there something you wanted (or wanted more of) in the tabletop games that wasn't there, that the live action play provides? (A bit of a loaded question considering who ran at least some of the tabletop games you've played, but we know that everyone has different preferences for play and no one will hold yours against you.)

- Walt

The thrill for me is basically a combination of everything; the way it all comes together to form this secondary world. I'm Majoring in music performance for exactly the same reason; there's nothing more satifying to me than to play a concert in a group that's gone from sight-reading to stage.

I'm also a people person and so I love the way all the characters react to each other. I know that'll be partly fueled by the player; you're more inclined to like or hate the character if you like or hate the player. It'll be interesting to see how Kinsurri takes Dork's new character at the next event.

The best parts, to me, were the ones in which I was completely immerssed in my character. Calling out damage didn't detract from that, either. I considered it more a 'battle cry'.

I started early on in a group of six, four guys and two girls (me and 'Megella' a Mystic Wood Elf). During our first fight, the 'enemies' scattered and we gave chase, with the exception of Megella; she's a healer, and doesn't have any weapon or defensive spell experience yet. So I'm chasing my target, and I see him run towards her and lift his sword in an obvious attempt to waylay (she's got her back turned). I yelled "GET AWAY FROM HER!' at the top of my lunges. I was too late, but that certainly helped fuel my adrenaline rush when I finally reached him and started wailing on him with my beloved Polearm (he was a dog-humanoid, which is why I christened my Polearm "Dog Killer").

Kinsurri got along well with all the women but only a couple guys (One was a Mystic Wood Elf the player had based off of Steve Irwin, and the other was a 'Biata' (bird-man-like creature) that was rather submissive. Kinsurri loved to beat up on him) This is due to a significant event in Kinsurri's history.

What's cool about the character histories are that if you submit yours to the Plot Team (NERO's term for GMs), there's a chance they'll use one or so of the plot hooks in an event, thereby giving your character a chance to develop in some way. I'm all about character development! :-)

There's very little I don't like about it. It's a way for me to be creative physically and mentally, interact with other people, ACT (I've always wanted to act :-D), and be something not necesarilly human (Ron!!! I'm a Cheetah!!!!!!!!!!!). I'm starting to think about problems differently, like 'what can I used to get the maximum effect possible for a life-like tail?' or 'if Kinsurri had to do that over again, would she do it differently? howso? how can I apply that into further events?'

I'm still having some minor issues role-playing Kinsurri, and when I think about this as in context to Table-top, where I found my characters easier to become, I think it's because she has history and backstory, to a point where one could say 'well in this year, this happened'; basically, she's like a real person with many complex layers and personality traits. I don't find that level of depth in Table-top games. Now, I'm not saying that's bad; most of hte table-top games I've played haven't been as long. The two longest running campaigns I played was Star Wars when I was in High School and then Unknown Armies my second year at DePaul. I seem to remember my Star Wars character having a more in-depth history than the one the Uknown Armies (though I could be wrong).

Now, having a character history for NERO is not required, but it's highly recommended. You're out there out of earshot from the Plot Team and have to interact with other characters, in character. How do you know how your charcter will react to something if they don't have the history? It's a lot more plausible (to me, at least) to have a character be stand-offish and aloof after they've been neglected as a child as opposed to someone just being stand-offish and aloof becuase they think that's cool. I think these histories are more important to LARP than Table-top because you're going to have downtime like that when you're still in character but you're not in action. One of Kinsurri's quirks was that she had come from a family that herded sheep and cattle, and when she was 15 her family's land flooded and the herds died. Because of this, she hates rain and likes to be high up. Though it didn't rain the weekend I played, I periodically hopped up on the benches and just walked along them as if it were normal.

I know I've barely touched on Table-tops, but I gotta rest my eyes for a bit. I'll be on later to elaborate (geez louise, I didn't know I could talk (type?) so much!!!)

One was a Mystic Wood Elf the player had based off of Steve Irwin

Ron!!! I'm a Cheetah!!!!!!!!!!!

I've had quite a few problems with LARPs.

-I think the number one problem for me is that I have no idea what's going on. To me it appears everyone else was invited into the game by someone whose been playing in the game for a long while. Unfortunately I never had this experience and I am usually the one who searches out and finds a LARP.
While I can make friends just fine, they usually end up being low level characters since the high level characters don't want me getting killed and what not. Unfortunately most low-level characters are newbies just like me.
-Combat annoys me. I absolutely abhor NERO combat (which is actually like most other boffer LARP combat). I hate having to call out damage values, and I hate having to keep track of HP. I much prefer a one hit/effect combat. In this kind of combat if you hit someone in the arm, they loose the ability to use that arm until healed. If you hit someone in the torso, they fall unconscious. All weapons are assumed to do one damage except for huge weapons which do 2 (but you don't call out damage). This makes combat so much more enjoyable for me rather than the barrage of machine gunning blows that most LARPs have.
Unfortunately I've only found one LARP that uses this rule (Shattered Isles, an AWESOME game in Georiga), and I believe it is also common in most 'military' type games too.
-A lack of costumes really annoys me. I believe every monster should have either make up or a mask. If a monster is not possible to pull off, it should not be used. Shattered Isles has the policy that all monsters must be costumed. In fact you are not allowed to use the phrase 'What do I see?'
-Weapon materials are so hard to find. I found a website that sells the right size of foam (5/8") thankfully, but I have never once found the foam in any hardware/plumbing/etc. store. The first LARP my friends and I went to ended up with all our weapons being disqualified. We had to borrow one weapon from monster camp, cannibilize some weapons to make this 6" thick monstrosity of a shortsword, and found some 5/8 foam somewhere that we used to make our last weapon.

Despite all of these things, and I can think of more, I absolutely love LARPing. :-D

-Joshua

wfreitag wrote: So, I gather the tone here is sometimes less than deadly serious...

I haven't played SCA, NERO or AMTGARD, and although I did participate in a little RPGA LARP at GenCon a few years back, I don't have much experience with hardcore RP style live action.

But I do Dag.

Dagorhir (and it's spinoff Belegarth) are the other end of the spectrum from fantasy LARP- Full contact combat sports.

We use the "one hit effect" rules you mention, with the larger weapons ignoring armor. There are also rules for shield-breaking, piercing weapons, etc. We use missile weapons, too, ranging from javelins to crossbows and longbows.

Character background is optional. Costuming is optional although "garb" must be safe, and if you show at a major event without decent garb you're going to get funny looks, from what I hear (I haven't scrounged enough vacation time to make an event yet >.<)

The game is fast paced, furious, and incredibly fun. There's no serious depth to it, but there's no time for it- it's kill or be killed.

We do have a large variety of different battle scenarios and special rules for all kinds of interesting things, simulated river fords, bridges, mounted soldiers vs. footmen, gladiator pits, etc. There's really no limit but your imagination to the possibilities.

So, it's not technically "role playing" in the deep sense. But role playing certainly does happen on the field. The goblins act like goblins. The knights act like knights. Honorable warriors fight with honor, and craven warriors stab people in the back a lot. There is brotherhood, betrayal, vengeance... all played out on the field of battle. Some characters have longstanding rivalries, or kinships. Some races are prejudiced against others. All that sort of dramatic stuff.

Some players are just stick jockeys who like to beat on people without getting arrested. =>

check out the madness, if you're so inclined, at

www.dagorhir.com

And if you want to fight me this Spring, come down to Wildwood and look me up =>

Hey All,

Since I was coming to the forum to post LARP information I thought I would post a few things in this thread.

Caitlin, I played NERO For 5 yrs and have a level 40 PC. After level 12 there's *nothing* left in the game. The original mechanics were designed so players should be permanently dead by level 8, but NERO found out people who's main character's permed were 96% likely to quit...so they changed the rules on dying now they have charcters ranging from lvl 1 to 60. When you know you can defeat anything plot throws at you that's with in the rules, the magic is gone. The only reason I frequented the game after my first year was to see the friends I had there from out of states, IL/OH/MI.

After my second year of NERO I started to formulate my own LARP. If any of you are interested in attending our first event is this Sunday, a 1-Day so its probably not feasible on short notice. However, we also have a weekend event coming up, March 21 to 23.

Our rules are listed on our website {NERO you gotta pay $20 for a rule book that'll fall apart after 6 months} along with chapter information, directions from Cinci and Lexington.

http://www.akashia.org/KYmain.htm

Thanks and if you choose to stay with NERO good luck ;)

-Rachel