Well, well.

Yesterday - yes, YESTERDAY - I discovered something really aggravating. NONE of the individual orders made prior to this week got sent - apparently store orders had to be fulfilled first. So all this time, we indie direct-order types have been stalled at the convenience of the distributor-store bastards.

Evidently, bookstores always get served first. Evidently, if this doesn't happen, a company is blackballed. Evidently, this is standard operating procedure, in the, "What, you didn't know that?" category.

From now on, direct orders will be sent the day they arrived or the day after. Not that it does ANY of you any good. All the books ARE in the mail, now, at last.

This business is really starting to piss me off.

Best,
Ron

Thanks for looking into that, Ron. That's damn aggravating, to say the least. Another case of big business squeezing the little guy in true blinders-on American style. Hang in there.

Best,

Blake

Ron--

I don't know if this will cheer you up, but it borught a smile to my face: go to amazon.com & do a book author search for "ron edwards".

At any rate--that really bites. Not that I'm really surprised. But still...bleah. Let's hear it for corporate cronyism.

So... have those older orders been dumped? Did they ship this week?

Bailywolf,

I'm not sure what you mean by "dumped," but I have been told that all orders, most specifically those that were ordered via the website, went into the mail last week. I am told that it takes about a week to get there, domestic.

From now on, though, I'm believing only what I see.

Best,
Ron

Ron

My bad. When I got home today, the little monster was lurking on my stoop. Love the book's dimensions- fits right next to my laptop. It even arived wraped in gold tissue paper. No one has even wrapped a game I ordered before.

I've given it a quick read through, and I LIKE what I see. My first goal is to run a game for three friends of mine who have never played an RPG before, but love deep stories. I think I'll keep it fairly simple and tame for them.

Not to put it too srongly, but on basis of my first read alone, Sorcerer is now in my BIG TOP FIVE.

Love it.

Bonus Karma for you.

Okay. I don't want to get monkey stomped here guys, so I'll make it short and brief and then I'll grab my pith helm.

I worked at Borders Books for about 4 years. A girl has to pay the bills while she's waiting to get rich and famous somehow. I personally dealt with local authors a lot, which is more or less what the indie publisher is to the "big boys".

Logistically, it's easier for the warehouse to ship off 5-10 copies of one book to one location than 5-10 books to 5-10 different locations. It's easier to program the Automatic Box Labeling Stamper Thingie Whatever to 'FLGS, Anytown, USA' for one box than enter ten names for ten boxes to fling them around the world. That's why they do the "big stores" first and then the individuals second. It isn't so much to slight the indie guy - though I know it comes across that way - but simply because that's the easiest way to handle the process.

It doesn't make it seem any less of a snub, I know, but I've stood on both sides of the fence, so have experience that others may not be (un)fortunate enough to possess.

As a side note, I don't work for Borders anymore because they tried to eat my soul. But that doesn't mean their process is any less logical.

Laura !!

As a side note, I don't work for Borders anymore because they tried to eat my soul.

I think you just channeled Jared Sorensen! Demons as retail franchises...whoah!!

Paul

Yup. Mine arrived today also. Very slick. I haven't tried to go line by line comparing to the PDF version yet, but it immediately strikes me as significantly better organized and laid out.

I gotta kick reading some of the new examples and clarifications that I distinctly remember being discussed on the GO forum a lifetime or two ago in internet time.

I also was somewhat astonished to see myself listed in the credits. Not entirely sure what I did to earn that honor, but thanks for the props nonetheless.

Laura (and all),

No one is talking about being "snubbed." Or if someone is, it's not me. What I'm talking about is the perfectly realistic knowledge, on the part of people I pay to advise me, that stores/distributors will blackball a game if it direct-orders to customers before it gets ordered by and shipped to distributors.

Now. This is a reality, not a paranoid fantasy, and as such, there's no point in railing against it. They has da power. Yes, it pisses me off (hence the title of the thread), mainly because my ignorance ending up making some of my best and most cherished customers WAIT for three friggin' weeks. Lon especially.

However: snubbing, schnubbing. It's not my ego that matters. What matters is the loss of credibility and customer respect. And beneath that, what matters is that the distributor/store axis cares about its own power more than it does about customers and their satisfaction.

So it's an excellent example of something that anyone at the Forge should know about.

Best,
Ron

P.S. The good guys in this saga are Woody Eblom of Tundra Sales Organization and Liza Fulda of the Sphinx Group. Without them, I'd be wearing a barrel and selling mechanical dogs.

Best,
Ron

Ahh...

Okay, then. That was just me misinterpreting what I read, then. I'm glad you're groovy with it, even if it's under duress. Yes, that does suck a whole lot. : \

But I think that, despite the wait, your customers got what they wanted and will be able to keep their open relations with you. You seem like a pretty open and frank kind of guy - I don't think anyone thought you were trying to pull the rug out from under them.

That's what I've come to love about Indie games, with the Forge in particular: you find a much more humane undercurrent. These aren't big companies producing product after product to suck your soul (like Borders tried -- I swear!). You're a guy with a game with an eager player base. Not that you probably don't want to be big company producing product after product, but for right now, you're still in a very accessible medium. ; )

As a side note, though, don't pass over that barrel and wind up toy idea so quick. You never know what kind of revenue that could generate!

Ron,

Thanks for the update and concern. I actually had counted the days since I placed the order, but I feel better knowing that real people out there have recieved their copies. A little better, anyway. :roll:

Don't worry about your credibility with me. I know what's been going on...

Hanging in there,
Lon

Ron,

After I got offline, my wife returned from an expedition and handed me a package the mailman had handed to her on her way out the driveway. Inside was the gold tissue-wrapped bundle of brimstone-mulched Sorcerer goodness.

This is one damned nice book. Being Sorcerer, the emphasis, of course, is on "damned." And yes, I'm also a fan of the book's size. Ever since Trinity and Aberrant, I've preferred trade paperback dimensions.

Kudos and many thanks. It was worth the wait and then some. My second copy goes to another GM in the area who has budding narrativist tendencies. I'll let you know how the seed takes.

Now... when can we expect the Sword/Soul book? *cracks whip* Back to work, Edwards!

Best,

Blake

one thing I would have liked to have seen though is the Sorceror "logo" of the scaly looking demon silhouette hunched over the little girl embossed in gold on the cover also, instead of just on the title page. Even sans little girl if that's too much detail, the coiled up demon is just too cool to have not been on the cover.

Just got the book in the mail. Giftwrapped in gold tissue paper. You guys rock. :smile:

Boy, everyone really likes that gold paper, don't they?

Troo Konfession: it was all Tundra's idea. I don't know if they just had a lot left over from Christmas or what, but someone said, "Hey, Sorcerer, gold paper, cool," and went for it.

I have no idea whether they'll be able to keep it up forever. But man, people do seem to like it. Maybe I'll call'em up and offer to pay for the next roll.

Best,
Ron

Ron,

Hold up... Don't offer, just be ready to agree if they ask!

The tissue paper is, of course, utilitarian: it helps keep the slipcover from being damaged in transit. But I did find that the gold color was neat, individual and eye-catching without being pretentious.

I got mine today. I expect to read it during my commute and between clients today. Maybe I'll have an unofficial review posted overnight.

By the by, thanks for the mention, Ron. It does my geek heart good.

Lon

[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Dark on 2001-08-21 17:48 ]

Got mine today as well. Liked the gold paper :smile:

Very nice production; haven't looked through it yet
to find the differences.

I've actually been running a game for eight sessions straight. Still working the bugs out of my style and my players ...

Mentioned this on another thread- but it should have went here.

I got mine today, don't know where everyone else is but I'm in the UK- so it would seem you have a pretty good delivery mechanism to the UK at least.

The cost of it aside of cost - my wife was in when the book arrived (I'll see it when I get back as I'm at work) and it cost 8 something to deliver it (not sure on the denomination, I'm assuming it was dollars).

Hello all,

I hope everyone realizes that I do not charge shipping & handling. I pay that cost, unlike everyone else in the universe. I've never understood why that isn't simply overhead.

No, I am not interested in your elaborate explanation for why shipping & handling are not overhead. I disagree with it.

Therefore, to clarify - when you buy Sorcerer from me, you pay $20 U.S., or $10 U.S. if you've prepaid by buying the old PDF. All shipping costs are paid by me out of what would otherwise be profit.

Best,
Ron

On 2001-08-22 10:38, Ron Edwards wrote:
I hope everyone realizes that I do not charge shipping & handling. I pay that cost, unlike everyone else in the universe. I've never understood why that isn't simply overhead.

The S&H thing threw me! i thought that was the reason it took a while to arive before Ron explained it.

I can only say, including the shipping in the cost of the book was a shockingly decent thing to do.

Thanks

Hiya Folks,

I stopped in to cover some details and make sure you don't hate Ron :wink:

I liked the gold coating too. When I brought back some leftover stock from GenCon, I went through a couple of presentation ideas that would work with such a nice book, and I settled on the simple tissue wrap. Gold was a natural color, working well with the cover, and, as people suspected, it was also to insure that direct order customers recieved a product with a perfect dustcover.

As to the shipping delay, I'd like to explain why it happened. It is very bad business to send out direct orders before the distributor orders have shipped, expecially for a new company. If a consumer walks in to a game store with a copy, and the retailer had ordered the product for the store (sight unseen, I might add, because it's the first book and there is not sales history, meaning the retailer takes a financial risk) but hadn't seen it yet, they call the distributors. If the distributors don't have it yet, they call the manufacturer (or us, in this case). If we said "Oh we shipped direct first", they come back with "Gee, we took a chance on these guys and you are bypassing the potential sales of our stores, so we don't want any". For a startup company, this can potentially kill any shelf presence at stores, leaving the playing population to luck into the game via websites. Kill the playing population like that means you folks will lose out too, and Ron will be one grumpy prof. :wink:

So, we ship direct orders out the same time as the distributor orders. This mean that direct customers get the product at the same time as the distributors. Then, if they immediately walk in to a store and wave it callously in the face of the retailers, and the retailers call their distributors, the dist can say "Oh, we just got that in and your copies will arrive on your next order". Additionally, for those stores who DIDN'T order, they call their dists and are told "Gee, we just got that in. How many should we get for you now that a fan of the game has convinced you that it's fabulous and you are a louse for not preordering it?". See how nasty this is? :wink:

Now, the reason for the delay was entirely on myself and Sphinx(who handles Ron's sales). We should have had all dist preorders closed (a fancy term for doublechecking preorders and making sure everyone get's what they want) before GenCon. However, because both companies were busy preparing for the show, we didn't communicate well with each other ahead of time and we realized that orders HADN'T been closed. We remedied that, and Tundra got the product out the door.

I apologize for the delay, folks, and hope that you'll forgive my conservative, protectionistic ways. We want Ron to be as sucessful as possilbe (because I am a mercenary, afterall ), but more than that, we want him to enjoy sharing his vision with people, and games are one of the best ways to do that.

Now, back to your deliberations. I'll start:

Boy, that Ron Edwards is SUCH an ego-centric world famous game designer. Anyone understand his drivel?

:wink:


ttfn - woody

Hey,

Everyone welcome Woody from Tundra, the man of gold foil. (Show respect, monkeys!)

As I stated above, the problem was mine in accepting direct orders at all until the damn thing had shipped to the stores. Woody and Liz saved my ass.

With any luck, another rock on the developing road of "how to combine direct and store sales" has been broken, so that others may traverse it more easily.

Best,
Ron