Topic: Age-old Imponderables
Started by: Mike Holmes
Started on: 2/28/2003
Board: RPG Theory
On 2/28/2003 at 5:50pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
Age-old Imponderables
Quoting Jason from another thread:
To list or not to list?
You're kind of fighting the impossible to answer question.
That was a good point. Over the years, I've encountered several "impossible to answer questions".
To restate Jason's question (which may not make sense out of context) and using his excellent example from the original thread, "Is it better to have a game like Hero where the rules system puts everything down in system terms, or is it better to enumerate everything in a system in terms of all that exists in the setting [say like the powers in V&V]?"
The advantages and disadvantages to both sides should jump out at the reader. There really is no way to come up with an answer for every game; the answer must remain, "All depends."
Another of these imponderables, one that I brought up lately, is, "Is it better to force players to role-play social interactions and puzzles, or instead to allow character abilities to make up for shortfalls in this area."
Another I remember is, "Is it better to have a system be less intrusive in terms of player activity, or should system be very visible so as to inform player activity."
There are lots more of these. But I'd like to see what other people have in terms of age-old debates that solutions of which always come down to, "It all depends," or "It's soley a matter of preference." I'm not interested in debating any of these on this thread. If you have an opinion on any of these questions please start a new thread on the subject (I suspect that this will probably happen). I'm just looking for more of these questions.
I think they're important, as is debating them in some ways. That is, a designer will come across these things in design without a doubt. And his response to the questions should be well-considered - they are hardly trivial questions. But it's also good to know that there are no "correct" answers to the questions, just sets of "if you do this, then", and other such advice.
So, who has a good example?
Mike
On 2/28/2003 at 6:49pm, clehrich wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Is immersion a desirable goal?
Is it important for historical-setting games to be founded on good research?
Should religion in a fantasy game be literalized (should the gods exist)?
On 2/28/2003 at 7:06pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
clehrich wrote: Is immersion a desirable goal?Hmm. I'd say it's more like, "What is Immersion?" Almost everyone says that they want it, but few can agree on what it is, or how to get it.
Is it important for historical-setting games to be founded on good research?Ooh, good one. I can hear the Ars discussions calling.
Should religion in a fantasy game be literalized (should the gods exist)?This one's almost garunteed to get to flamewar status when debated. People take it waay seriously.
Great examples, Chris. I'll bet John's got some too.
That reminds me, "What's best, G or D or S?" is too obvious.
Mike
On 3/1/2003 at 5:10am, cruciel wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
One that I always give myself a headache about (partially because I'm compositionally inept):
Should game text be organized to facilitate reference mid-game (encyclopedic / man page) or be more comfortable to read through outside of play (chapter format / instruction manual)?
And...
How random should a die roll be?
On 3/1/2003 at 7:16am, M. J. Young wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Ah, c'mon, guys. This one is too obvious:
Is it better to use one system for everything, or to learn a different system for each kind of game you want to play?
And another:
Is it better to put everything in one book, or to save something for the supplements?
--M. J. Young
On 3/1/2003 at 3:49pm, Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
What are the characters supposed to do during the game?
What are the players supposed to do during the game?
And the relationship between these two questions.
On 3/1/2003 at 6:16pm, Walt Freitag wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
A few Imponderables on the crunchier side:
Should a Fortune resolution system retain a small or even infinitesimal chance of success or failure no matter how many unfavorable or favorable factors accumulate, or should there be a point at which the outcome becomes certain?
Is it desirable or appropriate to have Fortune elements in character generation?
When does a desired mechanical effect justify using unusual or custom dice?
How should a change in a character's ability in one skill affect the character's performance in a different but related skill?
... perception rolls ... ? (any question will do)
... character advancement ... ? (any question will do)
- Walt
On 3/1/2003 at 10:52pm, Andrew Martin wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Attribute + Skill or separated attributes and skills?
On 3/3/2003 at 11:38am, Thierry Michel wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
clehrich wrote: Is it important for historical-setting games to be founded on good research?
OK, I'll bite. How is the answer to that one "it depends" ? (and not an unambiguous "yes" ).
On 3/3/2003 at 12:22pm, Drew Stevens wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Because the Count of Monte Cristo was NOT founded on good historical research, but is one of the best historical fiction pieces of action-adventure in existance.
Ergo, it depends. :)
On 3/3/2003 at 2:56pm, Thierry Michel wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Drew Stevens wrote: the Count of Monte Cristo was NOT founded on good historical research
Didn't need to since it was written in 1844, but I see your point (though I still disagree with it, I'm afraid).
On 3/3/2003 at 2:57pm, simon wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Apart from all the choices themselves (is this better than that) we can also ask for whom is this or that better? Better for my gaming tastes or yours? Better for this genre or that one? Better for the publisher or the player? etc....
On 3/3/2003 at 3:03pm, Drew Stevens wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Didn't need to since it was written in 1844, but I see your point (though I still disagree with it, I'm afraid).
Mm. Lemee put it another way. If it makes a good story better by using the trappings of history, even though it is not actually historical, then I'm all for it. Anachronism (sp) doesn't get to me the way it does for some people.
Solid historical research is, to me, as important as the level of goodness it imparts to the game, and more != better.
Ahh, Simulationist vs Narrativist. ;)
On 3/3/2003 at 4:42pm, Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Drew Stevens wrote: Ahh, Simulationist vs Narrativist. ;)
Actually it sounds more like the League of Historical Accuracy vs. well, people who don't give a rat's ass about historical accuracy. We never formally organized into a league or anything. It seemed silly.
But this isn't Narrativism vs Simulationism is my point. Narrativism can benefeit from stone cold hard historical accuracy. Simulationism can work with a flagarant disregard for same, possibly moreso. Monty Python & the Holy Grail is really inaccurate but I had always thought they really captured the feel of the middle ages, all the dirty peasants and such, but many experts believe that people in that time were very clean. (one of the reason I don't care about accuracy. Experts seem to perpetually disagree about what it was "really like") People tend to romanticize the past so blantant inaccuracies can help it feel more "real" for the Simulationist, even though it's inaccurate.
On 3/3/2003 at 5:17pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Start a thread on the historical thing. But do your research first. It's a well debated topic.
Mike
On 3/4/2003 at 9:49pm, Le Joueur wrote:
A Question Has Arisen
What more can we do to raise awareness about indie role-playing games?
(As if we're not doing everything we've thought of.)
Fang Langford
On 3/4/2003 at 10:42pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Now, now, Fang, that's an open ended question to begin with. It only asks you to think of new things rather than questioning old dichotomies.
I think some people are missing the point a little. Mostly these questions deal with choices amongst a number of equally valid options. They are unanswerable simply because it all comes down to preference or opinion or circumstances (such that generalizations are useless).
Despite the fact that some people are convinced that one side or another is absolutly correct. :-)
Perhaps one side is correct, and we just haven't seen the winning argument yet. So, if you have the answer to one of these, please, by all means start a new thread and let us in on it. Just be aware that the ones posted so far have been debated a lot before, and that if your answer isn't truely illuminating and innovative, that you'll likely meet a standard well-thought-out response to your idea that's been used to shoot it down a hundred times before.
Mike
On 3/4/2003 at 10:50pm, Le Joueur wrote:
True Enough
Okay, you're right.
It shoulda been:
Can we do more to advance Forge Agenda?
Fang Langford
p. s. Ha!
On 3/5/2003 at 4:58pm, Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
What IS roleplaying?
On 3/5/2003 at 5:23pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Age-old Imponderables
Followed by what is a Role-Playing Game, and then what's a Game, and then what are Rules, yadda, yadda.
yech
Mike