I recently was hired at a new job as a web designer. The company, among other things, does stock photography - interesting pictures useful for advertising or magazine design. Looking at other stock photography websites, I was exposed to an amazing new world for indie publishers: royalty-free stock photography.

Now, I know most games don't use photography for art - they use drawings or paintings. Both Unknown Armies and Dread, however, have used photography to great effect. These "royalty-free" sites offer quality photography for little cost, usually selling images in bulk to be used however you want. Most of them are a little pricey, but http://www.istockphoto.com/ is an amazingly cheap one I've found, with downloads being 50 cents each.

I was just shocked that something like this is out there (and it makes me want to make a Forge artists' site.) I have to think of a new game idea to go with some of this crazy art.

Clinton R. Nixon wrote: Now, I know most games don't use photography for art - they use drawings or paintings. Both Unknown Armies and Dread, however, have used photography to great effect. These "royalty-free" sites offer quality photography for little cost, usually selling images in bulk to be used however you want. Most of them are a little pricey, but http://www.istockphoto.com/ is an amazingly cheap one I've found, with downloads being 50 cents each.

I was just shocked that something like this is out there (and it makes me want to make a Forge artists' site.) I have to think of a new game idea to go with some of this crazy art.

Clinton, there are hordes of these kinds of things available, and not just limited to photography, although that's the dominant vibe.

Others include:

stockphoto.com
photodisc.com
eyewire.com


I have mixed emotions about it. For example, I'm considering using some to enliven Avatar-13 a bit. But, I have a hard time not using art from folks who are dedicated to the hobby. It's the one thing I DO pay for, not cutting corners on, in my little one-man-band operation. I get some great art, too.

Matt,

I agree in that I try to pay for art from people interested in RPGs whenever possible. This discovery has sprouted some cool ideas in my mind on how to make a site like this work for RPG artists. A Forge-sponsored RPG stock art site might work really well.

I agree in that I try to pay for art from people interested in RPGs whenever possible. This discovery has sprouted some cool ideas in my mind on how to make a site like this work for RPG artists. A Forge-sponsored RPG stock art site might work really well.

This thread is getting awfully derailed, but a site where independent RPG artists could show off their work, sell it with instant downloads, and determine their own contract is something I'd really like to see at the Forge. Seeing as I'm currently making a site for someone else to do this, we may see it, even as soon as GenCon.

Another way to use stock photogrophy for the artistically inept, such as myself, is run a photo through filters, like the pen or chalk filters. Not very satisfying, but you can do some things that way.

Little Fears used actual photos and I thought they looked really good. Were those stock photos or did Jason take those himself?

One concern I have about using clipart is that it may make your game seem cheap. Does the everyday gamer that doesn't work with graphics (like a lot of us) recognize the difference between original art and clipart?

I think an important thing to watch for is how widespread the clipart license goes. I've seen some clipart that is available in dozens of locations. If I use clipart in my game I want to be relatively sure that most people won't recognize it from somewhere else.

,Matt G.

Clinton, bring it on! That would be a most welcome resource.


Gareth, et al: Check out these links of photos I tinkered with for my players in our ongoing Avatar-13 playtests.

Penelope
Blackjack
Jank

I created these using photos downloaded from the web. I applied (on 5 layers of the same photo) the Trace Contour filter. The, using the actual photo as a "background" I set the color to duotone, then applied various filters. On Penelope, I created a semi-transparent emboss effect. On the other two, I used the Fresco filter, then Watercolor filter. I also applied Noise and a third part filter called Trans-Line that basically makes a "lined" effect, giving the appearance of a television-like screen.

For bonus points, can you name the famous people in these photos? Uber-bonus for identifying the somewhat obscure pic in Jank's image. Penelope's should be easiest.

The photography in Little Fears was not stock photography. Julie Hoverson (from Serendipity's Circle) contributed some pics, some were taken by me, and others were by my wife. Julie's were commissioned and paid for (the pics of the girl on the swing, the girl running toward the playground, mine were staged specifically for the book (the clothes burning in the fire, the doll by the river, the pull toy on the sidewalk, etc) and some just fit (my wife's pictures from her trip to Quebec).


RE: Avatar-13
My guesses are Kate Hudson as Penelope, Clive Owen as Blackjack, and I'm not sure about Jank. For some reason though Mike Myers came into my head for Jank.

I agree with Kate Hudson for Penelope.
Dominic Purcell (John Doe form the new show of the same name) for Blackjack.
And a young Rick Springfield for Jank. Robert Downey Junior also sprug to mind (maybe one of his arrest pics?).

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: I agree with Kate Hudson for Penelope.
Dominic Purcell (John Doe form the new show of the same name) for Blackjack.
And a young Rick Springfield for Jank. Robert Downey Junior also sprug to mind (maybe one of his arrest pics?).

Mike

That's Clive Owen? How the hell did you get him to look so bull-necked? He didn't look like that in Croupier.

Paul

Paul Czege wrote: That's Clive Owen? How the hell did you get him to look so bull-necked?

Matt Gwinn wrote: I think an important thing to watch for is how widespread the clipart license goes. I've seen some clipart that is available in dozens of locations. If I use clipart in my game I want to be relatively sure that most people won't recognize it from somewhere else.

clehrich wrote: I'm concerned about this, myself, because my current game project (Shadows in the Fog) will eventually have quite a lot of Victorian images, and these seem to crop up a lot because they're out of copyright.

Keep in mind that licensing terms vary from one "royalty free" company to another. Many have restrictions on the use of the images.

For example, some only allow you to use the images in free products (ads, web sites, etc.), some allow commercial use but limit the number of "copies" of a product that can be produced, etc.

In other words... Always be sure to read the fine print.

Gold Rush Games wrote: Keep in mind that licensing terms vary from one "royalty free" company to another. Many have restrictions on the use of the images.

For example, some only allow you to use the images in free products (ads, web sites, etc.), some allow commercial use but limit the number of "copies" of a product that can be produced, etc.

In other words... Always be sure to read the fine print.

I have to second the check the fine print clause! Specifically, check to see if you are allowed to alter the images in any way, or produce "derivative work" from them.

This may include cropping, and certainly includes running stock photos through PS filters. Some sites do not allow you to do that to their photos. Presumably as allowing derivative works could be the road to copyright infringement: "I put it through Photoshop, I own it now"

Worth checking.


With regard to a stock art board, I'd be willing to get involved. It's an idea I've had for sometime - I'd like a clearing house addition to my folio site, where publishers could buy permission to reproduce my older images, sketches, practice pieces and the like. I'm not sure how cheap I'd be prepared to go - certainly not as low as $0.50 an image. But maybe $10 for quarter page art, or something similar. (That's about a third/quarter of my commission rate, by way of comparison)

Personally I'd like to see the quality quite well regulated, or the whole thing becomes self defeating. If there's just wads of really amateurish art then that would lower customer interest, and lower the usefulness of the project. I'm sure I could contact a few pro artist friends and get them interested. All of them have spare pieces floating around.

Naturally I'd be quite happy for The Forge to take a cut for hosting/building such a site. Hell, I'd give consideration to a monthly fee, provided it was reasonable. In fact that could be your quality asurance - if artists' work isn't selling, then they'll maybe have consider if they're work is of saleable quality. Whereas a percentage cut would actually favour the least popular artists, which could be counter productive.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.

Except to say: Matt Snyder does pay the going rate, and thereby gets some fantastic art. The Nine Worlds stuff is excellent work and gives a very competant, credible face to Indie Gaming. Good work, Matt!

I thought the following press release was interesting in relation to the current discussion:

http://www.rpgnews.com/article.php?sid=2317

I'm assuming it's a lot of stock fantasy art.