Just finished our first Sorcerer game. The results were very fun.

A lot of the plot developments stem directly from McAlister's Kicker. We hand't touched much else in the time we played. We originally were gong to play from 8-10pm, but as you can see from the transcript we played a few "extra sets."

Here is a link for the transcript:

http://thejeffers.dyndns.org/~jjeffers/Games/Sorcerer/Gaslight/

If you read them, please be aware that we are not Sorcerer experts, so I'm sure there are inconsistencies with the rules. I am happy to report that the game was largely indestructable in this regard.

Enjoy!

Hiya,

I'm not too good at reading these on-line play transcripts, but apparently it didn't interfere much. My real question, though, is what sort of decisions do you see in the players' Kickers? I see a lot of logistics about "why we're here" and "how we met," but not so much in terms of "oh shit, my life has totally changed." Or maybe I'm missing it. Again, what do you see in them, as a GM?

Best,
Ron

Ron, yeah, you are right, I think those items were certainly along the lines that you mentioned.

I tried to emphasize to the players that a Kicker wasn't just a setup for aranging how the PCs have met and so on. I tried to let them know that a Kicker was a good way for the players to direct the game's direction and to get them involved with the PCs from the get go.

I think that the MacMallister was the strongest in terms of Kicker... there was a lot of depth to it, reltively speaking. I'm not sure any of them are of the sort that said "Oh my! My life has changed completely!"

I do think that for MacMallister, his life is at a point where either he's going to continue down this path of demon summoning to protect himself and his nephew or he's going to have to decide to abandon it and pick another route.

For Sloan, the Scotland Yard man, he's about to meet the roots of his family and the dreaded legacy they fled Rumania from. Either he will make the same choices as MacMallister, or he's going to succomb to his personal demons of alcoholism and debauchery.

Miinchi Tsu has his own set of personal problems - It's not clear to me at this point wether or not the PC will be able to survive long term as an assasin and remain wholly Tsu. He's already seeking Object demons that have a tendency to be possessive, fanatical devices. How many items can a sane person control before... the deluge?

Another thing:

One of the fantastic things about the Kickers was that the energy needed to get the players into the game has been minimized, from my (the GM's) perspective.

I don't know if this was the intent of Kickers, but man, are they working for me. I intend to use Kickers for _every_ RPG I GM from here on out.

Hi James,

That decrease in GM prep was certainly part of the intent of the mechanic. However, the real reason is to have both the player and the character invested in immediate action - opposed to reacting to the need for immediate action provided by someone else. I'd found in playing Champions for years that after many sessions, I'd be enjoying myself most as GM when the players barrelled into every session with a whole agenda of stuff to do. I asked myself, why wait for ten or twenty sessions to go by?

Here's another point. A lot of people don't quite realize that Sorcerer characters are in motion for two reasons, not just one. The first is that they decided to Bind a demon in the first place. That, in itself, provides far more oomph to a Sorcerer character than most games generate in character creation. I'll pick on Legends of the 5 Rings for a moment, because it's a good example. In L5R, during character creation, you answer "20 questions" about your character, all about what his parents think of him, how he acts towards servants, and so on ... and I was disappointed to learn that the character, when you're done with this, is still static. He's colored in, he's got mannerisms, but he's still just standing there.

Add to that the Kicker, which is a specific event. Not only do you have a person who already chose to do this astonishing thing, but now this person's life just changed forever. He was already interesting and unique, but now he's making a choice that even for him pushes his whole self-hood into a new zone. OK - that's a lot to deal with. That's motion.

That's why I'm not terribly happy with naive sorcerers, as a rule. The Kicker is almost always a "I found this demon" account, rather than the real meat of both influences above.

Best,
Ron

I seem to remember the first games I ever ran for my old gaming group in Florida were punctuated with extreme terror. And then, again, running my first game for a group here in Raleigh, I was terrified.

I was scare stiff that the ideas for what was going to happen to the PCs would not be interesting. I really really really really love the idea that the players provide so much juice to burn.

Yes, you are quite right, this is an amazingly fun way to run a game. (I sure wish more GMs would try it!) Although I took great pains to never resort to the old, chliched "The king wants you to do this mission, see, and you all are at the tavern...", I guess I never did get away from this. Because somewhere, this was assumed, and I, the GM, provided the directions all by myself.

This terrible influence you have created is beginning to creep into games I play in now. I find myself raging against the narrative walls like a pinball, trying to bounce my way out. Unfortuneately, the people running the games don't understand where I'm coming from, and the train continues on it's course. But that's a different story.

Hi James, Ron,

What makes a kicker 'logistical' versus a 'motivation'? I read the McMallister kicker http://thejeffers.dyndns.org/~jjeffers/Games/Sorcerer/Gaslight/McMallister_Kicker.html and it has

- a person living life normally (for a demon-binding opium eater)
- nephew is kidnapped! (a life changing event)
- character is now a vengeful hunter out to destroy the takers

This is embedded in a story.

Do you see it differently? If so, how does it fail to provide a strong motivation to action?

Take care,
John

I'll venture a shot at that one

I would say its because there is no ambiguity in the choice. The whole 'they took my nephew now they're going to pay' leaves no real choice for the player. Either he does take his vengence (which is uninteresting because the choice is obvious, no character conundrum, no conflict, no drama) or he ignores it (which defeats the kickers purpose and ends up the same way)

In Sorcerer the intention seems to be to build a narrative from the dramatic choices of a character in a universe in which those choices really do matter.

regards

Trevis

Samach:

You said the choice to obtain revenge was uninteresting. Why? Couldn't the means of dealing with revenge be interesting? I think there is a choice, here. Does MacMallister take the law into his own hands? Does he summon more demons? Does he bring the kidnappers to justice or just torture them?

IIRC, Sorcerer is about the question "How far would you go to obtain your goals?" And, in my opinion, this gets very interesting when the goals are good, so to speak, but the means maybe are not. Do you see this differently?

Dr O wrote: Do you see it differently? If so, how does it fail to provide a strong motivation to action?

Mike,

I'll mention this again, as above. Maybe the dilemna lies in just how he'll go about doing it.

BTW, this Kicker was written without any help from me. It sort of showed up in my inbox one day (along with a lot of other MacMallister items, too).

Ron Edwards wrote:

That's why I'm not terribly happy with naive sorcerers, as a rule. The Kicker is almost always a "I found this demon" account, rather than the real meat of both influences above.

Mike, thanks, thats what I'm thinking of.

James,

In the Sorcerer text about kickers it mentions not creating one that dictates the characters actions and this one seems to to that a bit.

I think there is a choice, here. Does MacMallister take the law into his own hands? Does he summon more demons? Does he bring the kidnappers to justice or just torture them?

Of course, between me and the player, we don't seem to have the same conclusion as y'all. How much is bail from Kicker-jail, anyways?

$50 bucks payable to me... :)

Aw, I wasn't meaning to tear you down or anything. John posed an interesting question and I was trying to answer it for myself as much as anyone, maybe I was being too specific. I can see where a lot of events would flow from the kicker, and it would service the game well in that way, but it seems to me that the real decision has already been made.

What was your working Premise (the question) for the game if I may ask?

regards,

Trevis

JamesDJIII wrote: Of course, between me and the player, we don't seem to have the same conclusion as y'all. How much is bail from Kicker-jail, anyways?

Samach:

The working Premise was to see if using an online medium would be an acceptable substitute for FTF role-playing. Nothing really more than that. Sorcerer just happened to come across my desk at the right time to give it a whirl.

I meant what premise or moral question is your game trying to address? (Premise in the Edwardsian/GNS/Narrative sense)

regards,

Trevis

Hey guys,

In my view, this dialogue is getting too deconstructive for James' purposes in posting about his game. James, correct me if I'm wrong.

The basic question - any fun? Going to keep playing? What kind of informal feedback seems interesting to (or from) the people who played?

Best,
Ron

Ron, you're absolutely right.

James, my apologies, I got carried away.

regards,

Trevis

Hey hey, no harm, no foul.

One player expressed a bit of anxiety about the process of Sorcerer. I think they were intimidated by the shared narritive "power."

Overall, however, the only concept they haven't taken to bosom is the power of additive dice. I kept seeing a lot of "I check to see if someone is following me." or "I pick his pocket." I think I need to be more direct about why this is causing them to get (at least) a -1 die penalty.

Otherwise, we are having a VERY good time with it.