Hi everyone, I'm new to the boards - and the game, which I bought last week.
I have been reading through the book, and found it all a bit..baffling.
The main problem is the overview; I was flipping and searching for a long time to
create a character, but once I got the grasp I *think* I did it right.

What I'm not so sure about is:
Spiritual Attributes: How do you start out with them?
Equipment: How do you choose it?

Does a character without any skills in missile weapons have a missile weapon pool?

Does a combat pool refill every round?

These questions probably sound silly, but I'm not a native English speaker either so it's even
more difficult to grasp these rules.

It all does look sound, though :)

I am excluding sorcery by the way.

The organization of the book, esp. the character generation section, is the only problem I have with the game. However, it's a fairly sizeable problem for those trying to jump in on their own. So, welcome to the boards, and hopefully we can help you make TRoS an enjoyable experience.

SAs: Just choose 5 from the list, and define them as necessary. Remember that passion is the only one that may be taken twice, and both must be defined toward separate elements. Then assign your 7 points to them. It is okay, and honestly quite common for 2 or more to have 0 points assigned at character generation. This does not mean they are less important to the character. Importance does not fluctuate with the numbers, the numbers only represent how much effort has recently gone into pursuit/support of that particular SA, and how much it can give back to the character, either in terms of character growth, or as an extra boost in applicable situations.

Equipment: I believe that somewhere it's stated that each character does start out with certain basic equipment, such as clothing, a belt knife, etc. Beyond that, many different nationalities get basic equipment, sometimes dependent upon social class (such as Stahlners, who get a horse at upper freeman and above, I believe) Anything else you wish your character to have is then purchased with your starting funds. At character generation, starting funds are considered to be imperial standard weight, so use that column when purchasing gear. Afterward, any unspent funds are translated into the character's native currency.

Missile Pool: Yes, but it is entirely based on aim, without a Missile Weapon Proficiency.

A round is made up of two exchanges, so yes, CP does refresh every round. Unspent points do not roll over to the next round, however.

Having answered your questions the best I can, I'll point you toward the post entitled "New to the Forum? Read here first" Which has links to many past discussions, some of which will cover in-depth the questions you've already asked, and some you've not yet thought of. But you should still feel free to ask any questions on things you're still not clear on.

Gidday.

Lance has already answered most of your questions, so I'll just say "what he said" and give you a welcome to the Forge. We're a pretty friendly bunch here, and you'll find questions get answered pretty quickly.

Having said that, there are some questions that have been done to death in the past, so I'll reiterate Lance's suggestion to check out the "New to the forum? Read here first" sticky at the top of the forum, it has some good links to past discussions and you should consider having a good read through them.

Also, if you're finding combat a little tricky to grasp, try downloading the TROS Windows Combat Simulator from the webpage. Running through that and referring to the book as you do so will help you get a good grasp on how things work.

Brian.

Brian Leybourne wrote: Also, if you're finding combat a little tricky to grasp, try downloading the TROS Windows Combat Simulator from the webpage. Running through that and referring to the book as you do so will help you get a good grasp on how things work.

Brian.

As a caveat, I will add that if you are trying to use the simulator as a way to grasp combat, it is important to make sure it is turned on in the options that all dice rolls and calculations are shown, and you scroll up and read them carefully each exchange of combat. With them turned off, combat is quite transparent, which is what I think was intended.

Also note that the simulator does not decide when combat is over, unless a killing blow is administered. You can totally debilitate your opponent, then go on to chop off all 5 of his arms, 3 of his legs, and disembowel him a few times for good measure before finishing him off with a killing blow to the heart, or a decapitation.

Not that I've ever done that. What sort of sadist do you think I am?

::grins wolfishly behind his hand::

One of the best uses for it is to put your own PC in there. And then try to kill him as often and as nastily as you can. Great way to learn his weaknesses.

Also a great way to learn the little things that don't occur to you just from reading the text. Like why leaving yourself without enough dice left in the pool to pay the weapon range penalty for the second exchange is a bad idea :-)

Welcome to the Riddle of Steel forum!

Brian's combat simulator beats even sliced bread, in my opinion. A great help in understanding combat.

A lot of people have mentioned the character system and how scattered it is. I have an 8 pg "character maker" that you can take a look at. Check out this thread: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5552 for more info.

If you are interested, PM me. You must answer a question to prove that you own the book, or Jake will get....er, crazy. :-)

arxhon wrote: Brian's combat simulator beats even sliced bread, in my opinion. A great help in understanding combat.

It'd be sweet to have an AI opponent mode in it. Then again the first guy who dediced to code chess AI thought it'd be easy to do.

Then again, if it goe's through the tree of results about two or three steps ahead, choosing the ones that produce optimum results (based on average results), it might do an okay job. Which is what chess progs do, basically...only more steps.

Wow thanks for all the nice replies. Looks like a cozier place here than most web boards :-)

I will try to download the Combat Simulator and see if it helps me.

I was perusing the book last night and found some more questions, but I have forgotten them right now heh.

I haven't found the thread with the rules discussions though ?

4th thread from the top "Look Here First"

Click HERE

I downloaded the Combat Simulator, and tried my hands at it. Combat looks quite exciting, almost as a game within the game.
I can imagine it would be cool to have a session or two where the PCs are gladiators, duelling other gladiators for glory and money.
Thanks for the tip (Although I knew it existed, it didn't cross my mind to download it for some reason).

As to the link (thanks), I didn't exactly find what I was looking for in that index. First, it was a bit confusing that the links had no individual titles, second, most discussions were about alterations to the game rules. I guess I have to look more.

I'm primarily interested in learning the basics of character creation, the use of equipment, basic rules (like jumping, lifting etc.) and combat; I leave out the campaign setting (I have my own which is even more down to earth), magic (for same reason) and I have no use for beasties and elves and dwarves (for same reason).

So I hope it's okay if I can post some questions in this thread, as it is already generated? (I will still look after solutions on this board, though).




Time grows short, and the piper plays his tune. We are almost there...

As far as gladiators, there were several threads on the subject, and I and a couple of others worked on a supplement for that for a while (now on hiatus). Do a search in the forum for "gladiator" and you'll get all sorts of nifty stuff on that topic, FWIW.

Mike

Of course you're more than welcome to post questions here... we don't bite, honest. Just don't ask how to make a fireball using the sorcery rules, that one has been done well past death and through a few thousand years of undeath into the bargain.

As for AI in the combat sim... yes, I did start that. So far it picks stances and whether to attack or not, and then I got to the part where I have to design an algorithm that will actually pick an intelligent attack based on what weapon it has, what weapon you have, where/what your armor is, how many CP it has, how many CP you have, whether this is exchange 1 or 2, how many CP it will need to protect itself if the attack fails and of course that depends on the expected number of CP you'll have left after you've defended in this exchange, and so on... Believe me, the guy who designed the Chess algorithm had it easy... it's pretty easy to look 3 moves ahead for every piece on the board and what all the possible counter-moves are etc, and then see which one leaves you in the best position... TROS combat, believe it or not, is a lot more complex than that.

Besides which, I've been working on the Character Generator software, which is actually finished, but I'm waiting for my testers to get back to me with any bugs, then I have to pretty it up and wrap an installer around it etc, and then I'll give it to Jake for the webpage.

Once that's actually done, and assuming I don't have any last minute OBAM changes to make after the editor has finished with it, I'll get back to the Combat Sim. If any of ya are really good at complex algorithm design...

Brian.

Tywin Lannister wrote: I downloaded the Combat Simulator, and tried my hands at it. Combat looks quite exciting, almost as a game within the game...

Spartan wrote: And if I had a dime for every hour I spent with that combat sim, I'd likely be retired by now. ;)

I'm happy to say that yesterday evening I introduced my players (and a new one) to THE RIDDLE OF STEEL. After my gushing and looking at the rules, they got really excited about it (they know my best games are the "realistic" ones, story-wise), and we proceeded to create characters. Some of it went well, some was difficult and generated some questions:

When you choose a Proficiency (say, 'Sword and Shield'), do you automatically receive all the Offensive and Defensive Maneuverds and write them on the character sheet?
Do you have a different (melee) Combat Pool for each proficiency? (A player has Sword and Shield: 8 and Dagger: 2). Do you keep one bowl of dice for each, or do you re-calculate whenever you change weapons.

Hey, here are some answers for you Tywin.

When you choose a Proficiency...

Do you have a different (melee) Combat Pool for each proficiency

However, if you look at the defaults, Dagger defaults from Sword and Shield at -2, you would have a Combat Pool of 10 in Dagger

Tywin Lannister wrote:

However, if you look at the defaults, Dagger defaults from Sword and Shield at -2, you would have a Combat Pool of 10 in Dagger

Thanks for the answers, Arxhon. But if a character has both 'Sword and Shield' and 'Dagger', does the Default -2 still count?

I do it the same way Alan does, and i believe Jake does it this way as well.

So for example, if i have Sword and Shield at 6, and Pole-axe at 6, i would use the Sword and Shield proficiency to get a defaulted value for Dagger, since it is the better one (-2 vs -4). I could put 1 point into Dagger for a value of 5 there. Mind you, it would be better to place that point into Sword and Shield for 7, since you still get a level 5 in dagger after defaulting (at -2) while having a better skill in Sword and Shield.

It's a little confusing initially, but you get the hang of it pretty quick. Just remember that no Proficiency may have a default value above 6 (p50, near the bottom).

Damn, but I'm constantly impressed at how helpful folk are to new faces on this list. Well done guys (and yeah, that's how defaults work).

Yes, since combat pools are calculated on Reflex+Proficiency level. So, using youe example, if you had a Reflex of 4, then your Sword and Shield Combat Pool would be 12, and your dagger would be 6.

However, if you look at the defaults, Dagger defaults from Sword and Shield at -2, you would have a Combat Pool of 10 in Dagger.

One thing... Unless I'm mistaken, defaults are maxed at 5, aren't they?

Which means if Sword and Shield defaults to Dagger at a -2, and you have S-and-S at 8, Dagger can only be a 5. Of course, those two points can be added right on to it, and making it a 7.

I don't have the book right in front of me, and it might have changed from the pre-release to the revised edition, but I am pretty sure it's a max 5 on defaults.

Wolfen wrote: One thing... Unless I'm mistaken, defaults are maxed at 5, aren't they?

Which means if Sword and Shield defaults to Dagger at a -2, and you have S-and-S at 8, Dagger can only be a 5. Of course, those two points can be added right on to it, and making it a 7.

I don't have the book right in front of me, and it might have changed from the pre-release to the revised edition, but I am pretty sure it's a max 5 on defaults.

Yeah, it is 6. Take a look at pg 50, left hand column, near the bottom.

Damn, but I'm constantly impressed at how helpful folk are to new faces on this list.

It's a little confusing initially, but you get the hang of it pretty quick. Just remember that no Proficiency may have a default value above 6 (p50, near the bottom).

Easiest way to learn is to play it out a few times and see what happens.
For proficiencies, think of defaults as your ability to pick up a similar weapon and apply what you know to that weapon style. I practice with long sword and I know a few polearm techniques from that training for example. Anyways, like I saidplay a few games and maybe try creating a character online here on the forge and maybe we can walk you through it?

probably by PM I suppose.....anyways, I am tired, I better quit trying to tye.

maybe try creating a character online here on the forge

Tywin Lannister wrote: I guess I'll have to find some time this weekend and re-read the parts on Proficiencies and Combat ,because as you say, it's really confusing and to be honest I don't understand the Defaults thing or the explanations above :(

That's a much better explanation than mine, snd is really how it should have been explained, but hey. He who gets everything right on the first try is perfect, which none of us are.

Good job! :-)

That was a good explanation, thank you very much! I didn't realize that those modifiers could be "used" to buy a second proficiency cheaper.

Brian Leybourne wrote: Of course you're more than welcome to post questions here... we don't bite, honest. Just don't ask how to make a fireball using the sorcery rules, that one has been done well past death and through a few thousand years of undeath into the bargain.

As for AI in the combat sim... yes, I did start that. So far it picks stances and whether to attack or not, and then I got to the part where I have to design an algorithm that will actually pick an intelligent attack based on what weapon it has, what weapon you have, where/what your armor is, how many CP it has, how many CP you have, whether this is exchange 1 or 2, how many CP it will need to protect itself if the attack fails and of course that depends on the expected number of CP you'll have left after you've defended in this exchange, and so on... Believe me, the guy who designed the Chess algorithm had it easy... it's pretty easy to look 3 moves ahead for every piece on the board and what all the possible counter-moves are etc, and then see which one leaves you in the best position... TROS combat, believe it or not, is a lot more complex than that.

Besides which, I've been working on the Character Generator software, which is actually finished, but I'm waiting for my testers to get back to me with any bugs, then I have to pretty it up and wrap an installer around it etc, and then I'll give it to Jake for the webpage.

Once that's actually done, and assuming I don't have any last minute OBAM changes to make after the editor has finished with it, I'll get back to the Combat Sim. If any of ya are really good at complex algorithm design...

Brian.

Brian Leybourne wrote: Lets say you buy priority B in proficiencies at character creation. This will give you 9 points to assign to proficiencies, with a maximum of 7 in any one.
Brian.

8 is the max if your proficiency priority is A, 7 is the max if the priority is anything else

Ah. Gotcha. Thanks.

Sneaky Git wrote:

Brian Leybourne wrote: Lets say you buy priority B in proficiencies at character creation. This will give you 9 points to assign to proficiencies, with a maximum of 7 in any one.
Brian.

Really? Why is 7 the maximum? I thought 8 was the max. Did I miss something...or...can you not have a proficiency within two of your total?

Chris

We have scheduled to start the campaign next Saturday, while I am still new and baffled. I think it's more interesting to learn the game through play than through reading.
I think I have most of it covered, and I wonder how long it will take to get a good grasp of each maneuver and skills' rules.

Tywin Lannister wrote: We have scheduled to start the campaign next Saturday, while I am still new and baffled. I think it's more interesting to learn the game through play than through reading.
I think I have most of it covered, and I wonder how long it will take to get a good grasp of each maneuver and skills' rules.

You could do a lot worse than running an initial "doesn't matter" session, where there are no long term consequences for the players, so they can find their feet.

Let them roleplay a while, learn how the system works, and then throw the ambush. Make it really hard with more than enough oppoisition to ensure that they all die, but make sure that it takes a while for them to drop, so they have plenty of time to try out combat maneuvers, bring SA's into play (one of my players rewrote one of his SA's on the fly to Passion: Love for the Dutchess and used it to great effect)

Anyway, not to step on your toes or anything, this is just something that quite a few of us here have used and it works really well.

Tywin Lannister wrote:

Let them roleplay a while, learn how the system works, and then throw the ambush. Make it really hard with more than enough oppoisition to ensure that they all die, but make sure that it takes a while for them to drop, so they have plenty of time to try out combat maneuvers, bring SA's into play (one of my players rewrote one of his SA's on the fly to Passion: Love for the Dutchess and used it to great effect)

Is still love this idea though :)

Characters intended to die by their creators, living despite all odds due to grand applicability of their SAs seems to be a common theme around here.. I remember someone having a character kill oodles of Gols (or something) in a cramped staircase due to this, despite it being intended as a last stand.

Not only did they learn the combat mechanics, and to respect the blade, but they saw first hand graphic proof of what SAs are for. Couldn't have had a better starting scenario if you'd scripted it that way, Brian.

yeah, that gol incident was my charcter and it was the sa's but also a hefty dose of strategy- Knowing when to throw red, knowing where to make the stand, who to strike first, how to hit them where to put what quantity of dice in what type ofsplits etc. The strategy aspect of the game is astounding and thats what takes a little longer to learn. Even after a year of playing I only recently figured out the best way around certian maneuvers and when not to employ others.

Valamir wrote: Not only did they learn the combat mechanics, and to respect the blade, but they saw first hand graphic proof of what SAs are for. Couldn't have had a better starting scenario if you'd scripted it that way, Brian.

I wasted all these years playing D&D and the like