Topic: Inu Yasha RPG
Started by: Eric J.
Started on: 4/8/2003
Board: Indie Game Design
On 4/8/2003 at 3:43am, Eric J. wrote:
Inu Yasha RPG
Inuyasha is just an anime show that I've taken to watching recently. When I look at it, it simply screams: Eric... I can see you... Make an RPG out of me! Put it up on the internet as a free PDF...
It's haunting me. I need experience making diverse RPGs so I decided to try this. Anyway-
I think that I'll make it similar to D&D but I will make it mostly karma based. I can see the system using classes and/or levels, but I'm not quite sure yet. Let me take care to discribe the world.
The setting is that of a fantasy version of feudal Japan, the time of the warring states. I'm going to learn more about that before I start writing the thing, but for now, I think I have it covered. Anyway- It is a land of an uneasy balance between humans and demons. Humans have the benefit of forming villages, but of course the demons(Yukai) are stronger. There are actually a few humans that can take on demons in cobat. The only ones shown on the show seem to be: Miko(Priestess), Monk, Demon hunter, Samari, and mabee a few I missed. This, in my mind, would allow a class a classless, or template system. I like template systems, so at this time I'm planning on doing that.
Mechanics-
I figured that I would use an attribute system, since it works so well.
Strength: This is a measurement of your physical ability and constitution.
Speed: Your agility and movent rate.
Willpower(Spirit): Your inherent magical power.
Perception: The power of your senses, and coordination.
Anyway- It turns out to work really well, because each of the classes share a balance. The fighter is usually the less magical one, but they get to do cool stuff to (Dodge things really really well). I'm thinking at this time to run it's range from 2-15 (2d6 method). Anyway- Demons would have the greator amount of the physical attributes, but humans would have a bit more of the second two.
I'm thinking that the RPG would primarilly be a combat system, but characters could still have other abilities. It would not be like skills. They would simply have certain other abilities (think non-weapon proficiancies, second ed D&D.) I'm hoping to make the combat system pretty fun, and it seems to be going fairly well.
I'm thinking of using a template system without levels because character improvement seems to go pretty slow on the show. Getting character points would allow you to allocate them to get new abilities and techniques rather than to improve your general combat characterisitcs. This way, it would seem to be more fun and in general keeping with the show.
So, that's the basic basic plan. Anything major that I'm missing? Is it stupid to have a primarily karma system for a combat system (I was thinking FF series, but what do I know)? I'd like any input.
On 4/8/2003 at 8:03am, Christoffer Lernö wrote:
RE: Inu Yasha RPG
I'm borrowing some inspiration from the Inu-Yasha manga for my game. I think the most intreresting to emulate would be the drama present in everything, as well as the feeling of a world of supernatural.
What I'd like to see want is drama, sudden revelations and aquirement of powers and miraculous interventions. Doesn't sound like any D&D I ever played but I might be wrong.
On 4/8/2003 at 8:21am, anonymouse wrote:
RE: Inu Yasha RPG
What I'd like to see want is drama, sudden revelations and aquirement of powers and miraculous interventions. Doesn't sound like any D&D I ever played but I might be wrong.
Heh! These are merely - using current 3E jargon - class abilities and feats gained when you level up; you get an amount N experience to beat your current XP Threshold, you get new stuff. The catch is that experience is only ever given out at the end of the encounter, and most DMs require some kind of breathing period (get out of the donjon, et cetera) before you can level up.
So the trick is to speed that up exponentially. Give experience (in whatever form you choose) for every action you can think of; defeating the beastie (monster, trap, et cetera) gives you a little more. When the character hits that threshold, they gain their new ability; that could be more HP/vitality/whatever, a new sword technique, a spell, et cetera.
The experience doesn't have to be on a super-table, either; 1 point for Easy stuff, 2 points for Typical actions, and so on, would probably work fine.
On 4/8/2003 at 9:26am, Christoffer Lernö wrote:
RE: Inu Yasha RPG
The important words were "drama" and "revelations" rather than sudden aquirement of powers. I don't think D&D's skill system will help much creating that.
On 4/8/2003 at 3:42pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Inu Yasha RPG
Hi there,
Perhaps the key issue is that the powers-acquisition happens right there in play, and is recognized by the characters as a miraculous or kewl event. I'd always wondered why, in D&D play that I'd participated in, characters didn't notice when someone acquired an astounding new ability - I mean, in-character notice, with attendant emotional reactions.
We played new-powers events like this in Champions quite a bit back in the 80s, and so did lots of other people, but in non-supers games, I'm pretty sure that Obsidian was the first text that allowed point-spending right there during play, with the attendant "Cool! I can do this now!" in-game reaction from the characters.
Best,
Ron
On 4/8/2003 at 8:37pm, Thomas Tamblyn wrote:
RE: Inu Yasha RPG
You might want to look at White WOlf's Exalted for a game that has a large amount of inu-yashaness about it.
On 4/9/2003 at 2:17pm, Le Joueur wrote:
Okay, I'm a Fan
Um, guys?
I know yer pretty thrilled with this idea, but you're missing pretty much the whole boat.
Inuyasha is only one thing...
A love story¹
Everything, and I do mean everything, is totally subordinate to that. And it's a 'high school romance' to boot.
See it works like this: none of it wouldn't have happened except for the Kikyou (Kegome) - Inuyasha - Naraku (Onigumo) love triangle that ended in tragedy. In the 'modern' storyline, we have the guy who had a bad love affair (Inuyasha) and the girl who reminds him of it - classic teen romance played out in excruciating detail. What about the other characters? Miroku is the cute guy the title character can get jealous of. Kikyou is the old girlfriend that the main character can think will reclaim the title character. Et cetera, et cetera.
To turn it into a 'romantic thriller,' everything is pitched with the royalty/commoner conflict. (Don't tell me you didn't realize that the Youkai - demons is the wrong word - are the metaphor for the royal class. I rather thought the social commentary of Sesshomaru's problems 'liking commoners,' as emphasized by his problems with the Tenseiga, was as obvious as it was biting.)
All the battles, all the demons, all the jewel shards, are just clever uses of the Youkai/feudal motif to emphasize the increments of the high school romance. Look closely at what the characters do during the bulk of each episode (the battles are actually quite brief) and you'll see how they highlight, rather than overshadow, the various romantic entanglements.
Watch how the characters are introduced mostly in terms of the Inuyasha/Kegome relationship. See how that relationship moves forward inch by agonizing inch. (He says he'll protect her is pretty close to a few traditional Japanese romance proposals. What about how they react to him simply giving her a hug? Think about how many times jealousy and comic misunderstanding punctuate and frame every episode.) Every aspect of the teen romance with heavy commoner/royalty overtones is dealt with episode by episode.
In Scattershot terms, I'd say that the Central Concept is a teen romance between a commoner and a member of royalty. The Motif is the Youkai, magic, and feudal Japan material. The Metaphors abound: the Youkai are royalty, feudal Japan is royal court, the 'modern era' is the commoner's domain, the swords are their owner's destinies unfulfilled towards their subjects, the jewel fragments are the piece of the title character's heart (doesn't he give it to the main character, after she 'clarifies' it, at the end?), and the use of magic is the expression of passion and emotion.
Any game built without respect to the core romance will be little more than a fight game that is measurably 'Inuyasha-esque.' Personally, since I work stock and trade with romantic gaming most of when I run, I find the idea intriguing. (Although I don't care for teen romances any more; I've been doing a lot of 'mature subject matter.')
You go girl! This is one I'd like to see.
Fang Langford
¹ Okay, it's three love stories, but nothing in it isn't about these relationships.
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On 4/9/2003 at 9:22pm, Eric J. wrote:
RE: Inu Yasha RPG
A good solid post. However, I'd have to dissagree.
Anyway-
First of all, I'd believe you to be correct. The core concept is that it is a teen romance in feudal Japan, flowing with metaphors everywhere. However, I would argue that all fantasy really is just metaphor for a more important point that relates to our world. I don't think that that fact limits what you can do with a setting.
The point I dissagree with most of all is:
Inuyasha is only one thing...
A love story¹
In my opionion, you can't go a hundred and five episodes with having the only plot material that of a love story. That really isn't all there is. Look at it. You have the exploration of a world. You have the rivalry of Inu Yasha and his brother. You have countless conflicts and a world as involving as the GM's mind can handle.
Any game built without respect to the core romance will be little more than a fight game that is measurably 'Inuyasha-esque.' Personally, since I work stock and trade with romantic gaming most of when I run, I find the idea intriguing. (Although I don't care for teen romances any more; I've been doing a lot of 'mature subject matter.')
And any game that's not build around the core of humans' rejection of nature and his decent into evil and redemption will be little more than a fight game that is measurably 'LotR-esque.' *cough* D&D *cough*
Anyway- I think that even if the players and gamemaster couldn't pull something off that was true to the source material, they could still do something fun that's memerable.
I would also have to dissagree with the problem that you presented being indicitive of Inu Yasha itself. This problem is prevelant in pretty much all RPGs that are based off of already existing settings, and I have no reason to believe that it would be a special problem here.
JMHO
On 4/10/2003 at 1:58am, Le Joueur wrote:
Why Go Half Way?
Hey Eric,
How does this:
Eric J. wrote: First of all, I'd believe you to be correct. The core concept is that it is a teen romance in feudal Japan, flowing with metaphors everywhere.
Contradict this:
Eric J. wrote: However, I would argue that all fantasy really is just metaphor for a more important point that relates to our world. I don't think that that fact limits what you can do with a setting.
I have no disagreement with "all fantasy really is just metaphor." That's pretty much the definition of storymaking. I haven't seen any fiction that isn't metaphor-laden (fantasy included).
And "limit?" C'mon, the whole point of using metaphors is to expand what you can do.¹
Eric J. wrote: The point I disagree with most of all is:
Le Joueur wrote: Inuyasha is only one thing...
A love story
In my opinion, you can't go a hundred and five episodes with having the only plot material that of a love story. That really isn't all there is. Look at it. You have the exploration of a world. You have the rivalry of Inu Yasha and his brother. You have countless conflicts and a world as involving as the GM's mind can handle.
Have you read much Rumiko Takahasi? I'd say 105 episodes doesn't do her romances justice (that's why I said "excruciating detail")"
Anyway, all your arguing here is the degree of abstraction. I said "love story" because that was exactly what was missing. Then I said it was "teen romance." Then I mentioned the "commoner/royalty" aspect. "Exploration of world" was purely a way to freshen the approach to each aspect of the budding romance. The "rivalry" is purely an expression of how family relates to romance; this is a very important aspect in Japanese culture. It heightens the commoner/royalty aspect; Sesshomaru, a Youkai (metaphor: royalty), shows nothing but distain for anything human (metaphor: commoner). Their father basically 'married below his station,' and he doesn't like the result (Inuyasha) or Inuyasha's interest in humans (commoners); he's definitely 'old school' Eastern royalty.
And I've seen no conflict in either the cartoon or the manga that didn't map perfectly unto Rumiko's model of teen romance (she's done the same thing through at least three series I've read: Urusei Yatsura, Ranma ½, and of course Inuyasha). But we're getting away from my point.
Without the romance, it isn't really a Inuyasha game; it'd just be a derivative of Rumiko's 'feudal Japan' world. And honestly that would be a shame. Y'see, if you look at each combat that occurs in the cartoon, the winner isn't determined by 'who have the best powers' but purely by how it affects the relationship. Are the lovers fighting? Then Inuyasha either loses or saves Kegome. Are they getting closer? Time for a pointlessly easy battle to stymie the relationship, see how it works? The battles either interact with or symbolize the metaphor.
Without the romance, it's just a string of pointless battles. Even the escalation of more and more serious foes is a metaphor for Inuyasha and Sesshomaru coming to terms with their 'royal destinies' which colors back on the royal/commoner romance aspect. (Inuyasha must come to terms with either being a ruler - metaphor: wield Tetsusaiga against Youkai - or abdicating - metaphor: becoming human - and Sesshomaru must come to terms with the responsibility a ruler has to their subjects - metaphor: wield Tenseiga.)
Eric J. wrote: Anyway- I think that even if the players and gamemaster couldn't pull something off that was true to the source material, they could still do something fun that's memorable.
What about arming them with more of the source material, including the metaphors that give it such telling value? Is there any reason to produce another 'pale imitation' or a wannabe game that just happens to afford the mere possibility of emulating the source material without much aid in 'getting it there?' I'm suggesting 'going for the gold;' do it, for real, include the whole animal, make the game cover all the material in the source not just the 'kewl powers.' Anybody gotta problem with that?¹
Eric J. wrote: I would also have to disagree with the problem that you presented being indicative of Inu Yasha itself. This problem is prevalent in pretty much all RPGs that are based off of already existing settings, and I have no reason to believe that it would be a special problem here.
What problem do I suggest in Inuyasha (besides the juvenile nature of teen romance)? I'm interested; can you explain?
Otherwise, do I hear you saying that since all derivative games are lackluster that this attempt should shoot no higher? I don't believe that; if yer gonna do something, go for it! Halfway is for losers.¹
Fang Langford
¹ These weak attempts at humor underscore the fact that my proposal to include the metaphorical basis is intended entirely to describe my opinion. No one should take them as anything more than what I'd like.
On 4/10/2003 at 5:02am, Eric J. wrote:
RE: Inu Yasha RPG
Alright. That makes a bit more sense actually. I only want to adress a couple of things:
Here's how I'm seing the argument(discussion, etc.):
Me- Hey! I'm making an RPG! It's about some anime series that I've seen most of the episodes to!
You: That's nice. You don't sound as if your RPG is true to the source material. The core essence to Inu Yasha is the love story between the main characters. You DO expect to add in that factor, right? RIGHT?
Me: Well, D&D does it! And so do most RPGs that are based upon already existing settings. Why can't I do it?
You: Because it could be much better than that, and should be. Otherwise your going to produce an empty game.
Me: Yeah... well...uh... >_<
So, there we have it. I suppose that I'll either get the favor of some god to actually do an RPG like this correctly, or I'll abondon the concept. Oh, well. BTW- My purpose here is not to close the thread. Anyone's input would be really valuable. Thanks.
On 4/10/2003 at 4:09pm, Le Joueur wrote:
Just Covering the Possibilities
Eric J. wrote: Alright. That makes a bit more sense actually. I only want to address a couple of things:
Here's how I'm seeing the argument (discussion, etc.):
Me- Hey! I'm making an RPG! It's about some anime series that I've seen most of the episodes to!
You: That's nice. You don't sound as if your RPG is true to the source material. The core essence to Inu Yasha is the love story between the main characters. You DO expect to add in that factor, right? RIGHT?
Me: Well, D&D does it! And so do most RPGs that are based upon already existing settings. Why can't I do it?
You: Because it could be much better than that, and should be. Otherwise you're going to produce an empty game.
Me: Yeah... well...uh... >_<
So, there we have it. I suppose that I'll either get the favor of some god to actually do an RPG like this correctly, or I'll abandon the concept. Oh, well. By the way, my purpose here is not to close the thread. Anyone's input would be really valuable. Thanks.
I'm glad we're communicating. However, I don't think my footnote rang through. There is no being "true to the source material;" I was offering the parts I saw hadn't been addressed (and that's just an opinion). I don't expect you to do anything with this offering, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it; I am equally happy if you choose to knowingly avoid it as if you include it. "Better" is absolutely and always a subjective value judgment; if you see me using the word, you should assume I mean "better in my opinion." Knowingly absenting the element from your game is perfectly up to you; I would not think it "an empty game," ever.
All I wanted to avoid was the chance for a romance-based game (other than I write) slipping by because of ignorance. Knowingly choosing to have all the kewl stuff without the romance is an option (allowing non-romantic play in the source material 'world') and a good one, but if there is a chance people will play it and go 'I wonder what is missing,' I would feel bad if I hadn't pointed it out. If the most this results in is a single paragraph in the back of the game acknowledging the basis of the source material, I'd be ecstatic. Simply that you know about what shapes the source material's conflicts and their resolutions is more than enough for me.
There is no "correct" way to make your game, except being well informed. What you put in or leave out is entirely up to you. And fine by me. My target was ignorance, not what you do with your design. (My intent is not what it "should be," but making sure it 'will be' what you want. I could not know what you'd make of the romantic element, or even if you'd care; I can only offer up the possibility.)
Fang Langford
p. s. I've always wondered about constructing a game where the relationship and metaphor between the 'action scenes' and the romance becomes a Karma driver for the resolution more than a Drama driver (per Ron's explanation of Tweet's DFK), but I haven't had much luck that way. This is not a petition for you to do so.
On 4/16/2003 at 2:42pm, hyphz wrote:
Re: Just Covering the Possibilities
I think this thread is fast demonstrating why designing an RPG to represent particular source material is a bad idea... because almost inevitably there's too many different interpretations of that source material. If you get the core of the RPG done first, *then* add the source material, then it's a lot clearer what kind of interpretation is being put on it. (As an example, GOO are now selling a "Lain for BESM" book. I know not to buy that, because I don't think of Lain that way. If it had just been a "Lain RPG" I would have been bitterly disappointed if it turned out to be the BESM core, just as Joueur has described disappointment if an Inuyasha game didn't reflect the romantic side.)
And that's if the source material is consistent.. I don't know Inuyasha much, but I do know Ranma 1/2, and certainly in that you've got the original manga, several different translations, the Japanese anime, the official anime translation in dubbed and subbed, the fansub anime... and all of them have just-slightly-different spins on everything. And you could take several different themes from that, all of which could be fun in RPing on their own: you could have the "see how romance goes on through different events" game, you could have the "do super wild wacky creative martial arts stunts" game (distinguishing "the xx game" from "a game, in which you can say your character does xx"), and you could have the "deal with involuntary transformations between different forms" game. And all of these might be good as games, but it's doubtful they'd gel together in a single game without one of them being pulled to the foreground.
(And if I ever see a fan-made RPG of Video Girl Ai or Kareshi Kanojo no Jijyo which includes a detailed combat system I'm going to smack somebody. ;) )