Recoil is a game idea that I started kicking around when I ran across a page of fiction I wrote while bored between classes. I've been having a hard time getting back into Mage Blade, with so much to do, so I decided I'd try something totally different for a while.

Recoil borrows concepts from a few different things, including Mage: The Ascension, The Matrix, That game that someone was working on way back when I first started posting here (Fulcrum was the working title, I believe), Quantum Leap and even to a small extent, Terry Pratchett's Diskworld novels.

I'm going to post the meat of the concept here, and see, first of all, if there's anything notably like it already out there. Secondly, I'm hoping to gather some questions that will help me flesh out the concept even more. Finally, if anyone is so inclined, some initial suggestions on mechanics that would fit the game style and theme, before I post what I'm already working on.

Without further ado:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Concept: You are a type of agent, but you do not work for a government, or any
corporeal organization. You work for a group which exists, for lack of a better explanation,
outside time and space. The mission of this group is far-reaching; to keep the world in existence.
Normally, the world wouldn’t need your help, but your group isn’t the only thing watching the
world from outside. Some other force, known to you as Oblivion, seeks to destroy the world
entirely.

How you became what you are is still fuzzy to you, as is who you used to be. That you
were once a mortal human is all you really know for certain, and that you struggled upon death,
rather than giving in to Oblivion, long enough for a being who calls itself Mortis to rescue you.

Mortis explained to you what is going on, and you agreed, either readily or reluctantly, to
help the group fight Oblivion. What any of you know about Oblivion is limited, but some little is
undisputed. Whatever destiny was in store for people who pass into death is no longer. Oblivion
has blocked all ways to the afterlife, be it Heaven, Hell, Nirvana or Valhalla. The souls of most
who die are destroyed utterly, except the few who’s conviction was strong enough that Mortis
was able to save them, like you. That Oblivion has active agents, whose nature is unknown, who
actively work to bring the world to ruin is also known.

That is where you come in.

You, and agents like you, return to earth to stop whatever actions the Naughtwraiths
(That’s what someone called ‘em once, and the name stuck) are attempting, whether it be simple
murder, or some more devious plot. Only problem is, you’re dead. So you have to return as a
soul, and inhabit the body of someone still living. Your control and synchronicity with that host
varies from person to person, so it might be sometimes a rough ride. The main equalizer is that
the Naughtwraiths must take hosts as well, unless they can succeed in ripping a Rift in the fabric
of space and time; which is what you’re there to stop them from doing.

How it plays out: Each session, or series of sessions, will center around a given mission. The
mission could be a short, violent and desperate battle, or it could be a mystery lasting for days or
weeks of earth time. There will be interludes on the Outside between missions which can, if the
GM so chooses, take up sessions of play as well. When on earth, the objectives of the
Naughtwraiths are singular; to lower the realm solidity, called Paradigm, of a given area, so as to
create a Rift so they may enter physically into the world. Their methods may be brutally direct, or
hideously subtle. But their goal is to shake the certainty of belief of the people in the area, as it is
belief which makes up the Paradigm. The goal of the agents is to eliminate the Naughtwraiths
before they can succeed, without significantly damaging the Paradigm themselves.

The agents will have their own skills and talents, as well as certain attributes of their own, such
as Synchronicity, Perception and Power. However, as they are not alive and physical, their
physical attributes will be based off of those of the host. Likewise, depending on their
synchronicity with that host, they may have use of the host’s knowledge and abilities. One of the
largest risks agents run is that of damaging the Paradigm themselves. If someone who knows
the host suddenly sees them doing something they normally couldn’t, such as speaking Russian
like a native, or doing a gravity-defying spin kick, it has the potential to damage the Paradigm.
Even worse than that, the agent does have certain abilities that are frankly impossible, which are
often necessary in dealing with the Naughtwraiths, especially if they manage a Rift. Anything that
might lower the belief of people in what is real and solid must be avoided whenever possible.
However, the Naughtwraiths have no such constraints...

Hmm. OK. It sounds cool, but I gotta say that there are a lot of people trying to build this game or something simiular of late. I'm not sure if the fact that none have materialized is due to the subject matter, or just the standard high rate of incompletion of RPGs. Hm....

BTW, there is a game called Knights of Torque and Recoil RPG. Probably won't be a concern, but just thought I'd mention it.

Mike

Maybe there's something in the water...

::shrugs:: I'll keep working on it, anyhow. The mechanics I've got in mind are much simpler than what I'm trying to do with MB, so it'll be a refreshing change of pace. If someone else comes out and shows something that's farther along/better and is too similar, I may drop it then. Until then, it's something to occupy my mind.

As for the name, I suppose I ought to explain it slightly. The Coil is what game fiction calls earth/the physical realm, as in "the mortal coil" mentioned in poetry and some fiction. Recoiling is the action of re-entering the Coil as a passenger spirit. Hence the title. I doubt it's anything like the game you've mentioned, and I think the name is different enough to stand on it's own.

You mention Mage: the Ascension, but have you read Wraith: the Oblivion? It's my favourite of the World of Darkness series, though now out-of-print. If you haven't given it a looksee, I'd suggest picking it up, if for no other reason than to see how someone else did the fuzzy memory/kind-of-undead/fighting Oblivion and its servants-thing.

And your explaination of the chosen name (Recoil) just hooked me pretty good. =)

If you can get a hold of a copy, you might take a look at Whispering Vault. It has sort of a similar theme. PC's are dead people given power to create bodies randomly through time and space. Each mission centers about finding and fixing a flaw in reality caused by another form of being. There is the idea of being Outside of reality. In PC creation you even are supposed to describe your character's personal realm.

Torrent

I've read through Wraith much more thoroughly than Mage, but it's been a damned long time for both. I remember combat in the corporeal world vaguely, but I only read it, didn't actually get to sit down and test it out.

What I borrowed from Mage is the concept that magic/powers/whatever can't be flashed about, because it might adversely affect the Paradigm/Paradox (coincidence in the sound. I didn't even think about what the Mage term was called until just now) by messing with how people view reality. I prefer my own take on the effects, though.. Rather than it just being "Oops, you get another point of Paradox. Something nasty is going to happen to you, if you don't stop doing that.." it's more "Oops, you've just lowered the local Paradigm another notch. Something nasty is going to happen to the world, and if you don't stop doing that, it'll be your fault..."

One thing that Wraith had that definitely won't get into Recoil, though there's definitely conceptual room for it, is Fetters. In Recoil, it doesn't matter who you were, or how you died (though the GM could use it for good story hooks, if he/you chose to develop it). Part of the feel I'm going for is the immediate, the now. The past is the past, and the future is the future, only the NOW really matters.

To add a few things..

Constant NPCs: There are 2 constant NPCs that the players will interact with on a regular basis. They are Prime, and Mortis.

Prime: Prime is the first 'agent' (I dislike this term) to be rescued by Mortis. He or she (for gender is unknown, at least at first) may have been a politician, a scientist, a priest or a mystic, or even a military officer. Nothing is known about the previous life of Prime, perhaps even by Prime themself. Whatever they were prior to dying and rescue by Mortis from Oblivion, Prime has shown amazing organizing capabilities, and has become the mind driving the whole struggle against Oblivion. Prime is the boss.

Mortis: Mortis is basically the guardian of death's gates. When it first realized that things were not as they should be, it rescued Prime. From there, it and Prime came up with a plan to battle the Oblivion, and attempt to reopen the ways into the afterlife. Mortis is essentially the engine that powers the group's operations. It is a sentient being, but with little understanding beyond what is needed to monitor the passage of souls. It's abilities, shared somewhat with the player characters, is what allows them to reenter the Coil to do battle with the Naughtwraiths. From there, training and the latent abilities of the soul are the tools they use.

Outside (waffling for a better term on this one, too): Outside is where Mortis exists, and by default, where the group bases itself. It is, in appearance, an infinite grey plane, but it's appearance, shape and function is entirely malleable. Basically, whatever the characters wish it to be, it is. Likewise, whatever they wish to look like, they do. For the most part, they take on human appearances, to train in the combative skills they will find useful when they Recoil. Their appearance may be what they think they looked like in life, some vaguely remembered relative or friend, a personal hero, or perhaps the host that they had last time they Recoiled. Prime is unique in that they rarely ever take a form. Even Mortis takes a form, usually something similar to the Grim Reaper, because that is what collective Paradigm imagines that death would look like.

Naughtwraiths: The name is something someone said once, and it stuck. Maybe it was Prime, maybe it was one of the other agents. Who knows? It's the most widely accepted term among the group (this word seems so generic..). It comes from the archaic word "naught" which means nothing, and wraith, which in mythology is usually some sort of spirit. So it is a spirit of nothing, which is appropriate for what they seem to be. They seem to require a physical host, the same as the player characters do, to have any direct effect upon Coil, so long as there is any Paradigm to block them from manifesting physically. When they have manifested in the past, they have taken a variety of forms, innocuous-seeming, or nightmare creature. When they manifest, they rapidly deteriorate the Paradigm around them, expanding the Rift that allowed them to enter the Coil directly. When they do this, they must be destroyed, which seems to stun the Oblivion briefly, because no more will manifest from the Rift for some time afterward. The Rift must be closed by the player characters before they recover, however.

Paradigm: Paradigm appears to be regional. So much can happen within a single area without a Rift forming due to total destruction of the local Paradigm. If the unreal influences leave the area before the Paradigm is totally deteriorated, it will slowly mend on it's own, as human skepticism and rationalization is a powerful thing. But once it deteriorates to nothing, a Rift is opened. Rifts are not visible to most people, but hosts for both the player characters and Naughtwraiths can see them, as well as certain others. Naughtwraiths will seek out a Rift, and attempt to use it to manifest into the Coil, leaving their host. Closing the Rift requires any Naughtwraiths within it to be destroyed or driven back first, then all people must be removed from the area of the Rift. From there it is just a matter of effort on the part of the PCs to close the Rift.

Torrent wrote: If you can get a hold of a copy, you might take a look at Whispering Vault. It has sort of a similar theme. PC's are dead people given power to create bodies randomly through time and space. Each mission centers about finding and fixing a flaw in reality caused by another form of being. There is the idea of being Outside of reality. In PC creation you even are supposed to describe your character's personal realm.

Torrent

What do you do in this game? I mean, aside from "fighting Oblivion," what are the characters' interests? Are they interested in life for its own sake? Are there political factions? How absolute is their duty to fight Oblivion (i.e., is it like the Ascension War "I fight the Technocracy when I get a chance, betwee lattes," or more like the Buffy "I fight evil because I have to and it's my duty above everything else"?)? What do these agents do between missions? Do they live on Earth or Outside? How supported are they? Do they have to set up their own franchises, a-la InSpectres?

I'm just curious. I'm fighting the "Storyteller Heartbreaker" influence. You've got my interest, and I want to know what makes these agents and their agency tick. :)

Jay

whether it be simple murder, or some more devious plot

Tar: What do the characters do?

I figure at least some of the game will be exploration of why they are willing to fight. In the beginning, it's because Mortis rescued them from Oblivion, and Prime tells them that they have to fight it or else it will destroy the world. Very few people, even once they're dead I imagine, are really noble enough to want to save the world just for the world's sake, though. The world is full of nasty people, so you've got to have a personal reason to fight. But what? Your former life is nothing but a few hazy memories. Some, I figure, will fight because they form a bond with the rest of the group. Others may see something or someone when they Recoil that is enough to cause them to fight. Some rare few might fight simply for the cause. And some others might have the hazy impression of a family still alive from their former life. Some may want to go to Heaven/Valhalla/The Summerlands, and this is their only chance to do so.

Between missions, they exist Outside. They train, they learn, they mingle and talk. Pretty much anything they want to do, so long as it's Outside. Mortis won't allow them to Recoil without a pressing reason, usually to fight the Naughtwraiths. They're one single group, dependent upon Mortis to detect when a Naughtwraith is in the Coil, and to send them there.

A bit more on Mortis: Mortis senses the deaths of people, and how they enter into death. That is the only way it knows what is going on, except what the agents tell it when they're there. So when people die due to the influence of a Naughtwraith, Mortis knows. It then sends the agents back to stop it from happening. However, the Oblivion seems to be devouring the past, so that no more than 3 or 4 days prior to the Present exist. For similar reasons, the future is constrained. The actions of those outside the Coil can rewrite the future, cutting off a previously existing future from the central flow of what is, leaving it vulnerable to Oblivion.

Thomas: What do the Naughtwraiths do?

First off, what they are, or why they do what they do is left undefined. I'm letting individual gamemasters, if they choose to do so, define them. But what they do can be a variety of things. The complexitydepends on how powerful they are, as are more intelligent and devious as they grow in power. A single, low powered Naughtwraith might think only on the individual level, causing it's host to appear monstrous to a victim, and kill them. The effect, by itself, to Paradigm is minimal, as the victim's beliefs cease to affect the Paradigm when they die. A slightly more devious Naughtwraith may enter the body of a doctor, or priest and go on a massive public killing spree, taking several fatal wounds before allowing the host to die. People are shaken by this, seeing it to be a near impossibility that someone so devoted to life and helping others could do this, and withstand the injuries they did. On a much grander scale, A public speaker could spontaneously combust while in front of the largest crowd he'd ever had. All of these things would have varying affects on the Paradigm. Why the Naughtwraiths don't just use their powers in massive amounts to create the Rifts? Because, for one, they don't have a lot The weakest Naughtwraiths have no power at all, beyond what it takes to enter a host. The most powerful would still be no match for a rookie agent, one on one. So the more intelligent they are, the more likely they are to want their use of the power to affect more people. And the main reason that Naughtwraith's actions are worse than those of other, more mundane crimes and depravities, is the result if they are successful, a Rift, from which monsters enter our world.

Another thing which affects both agents' and Naughtwraiths use of the power is how strong the Paradigm is. Generally it is strongest in large public places, though it is also most vulnerable there, due to the mass amount of belief in how reality should be. The Paradigm acts as a resistance to any actions which seem to violate it. Thus, an agent would be able to expend power with ease launching fireballs at a cornered Naughtwraith in a deserted alleyway, and the Naughtwraith would find it much easier to fight back there. There would be little to no damage to Paradigm in that location.

On dispatching Naughtwraiths: There are a few ways which I've not fully decided on yet, but the easiest way by far is to kill the host. Whether this destroys the Naughtwraith, or simply sends it back to whence it came is unknown, and immediately unimportant. The problem is is that that sends another soul to Oblivion, as well. When a agent's host is killed, they return to Outside, where they must either wait, or attempt to reenter the Coil.

Another voice for Whispering Vault here. This is all very reminiscient of WV (an excellent game by the way). The backstory of WV was different, but the set-up seems nigh identical (external agency protecting reality, outside force threatening it, mission/episodes).

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Whispering Vault was a pioneer into this area, but there is A LOT left to explore in terms of possible take on this genre.

Lance, I think you pretty much HAVE to get Whispering Vault to compare ideas :)

Ah - I see. In a way, its a reversal of Mage the scension isn't it? With the naghtwraiths being the mages and the players retroactively enforcing paradox.

I like the idea of keeping the naughtwraiths mysterious - especially their motives, after all, why are they opening rifts? Perhaps they're not the bad guys after all.

Mortis and prime seem pretty dominating - did you intend them to be that way or is there some way that characters can rebel and go with the other side? If nothing else, it might be interesting to have a group fighting against both naughtwraiths and a group of former servants of Mortis who have gone over to the other side.

You may want to give the Recoilers a Void stat or something that goes up when they are wounded or if they turn away from their concern on the mortal world. If their Void is too high, and they're near a rip, they can get sucked in and destroyed--for good. So they've got to keep active in the world in order to survive. They still don't have to be nice people, but they do have to be active.

Just a thought.

Thomas: By human standards, Naughtwraiths are definitely the bad guys, judged by their actions. Are they evil? That depends on the framework that you're using. Perhaps Oblivion is a necessary force, cleansing the universe for a rebirth.

On the other hand, I want to go to Heaven when I die, and anything that wants to stop me is EVIL in my book.

One of the ironies I like in the concept is that the players, while trying to protect the Paradigm, can themselves inadvertently destroy it and cause a Rift for the Naughtwraiths to enter.

And yes, Prime is dominating, at least in my vision of them. Mortis isn't, really. Mortis is curious and fairly amenable to what happens, as humans are a novelty to it. The only thing that Mortis is strongly against is Oblivion interfering with the passing of souls into the beyond. At least, this is my vision. I'm leaving them almost as undefined as the Naughtwraiths and Oblivion, for much the same reason. Individual game masters can personify them as they see fit.

Spooky: I've been giving thought to permanent PC death, but I've not decided on how to do it. They themselves cannot be wounded, only their hosts. I do like the idea of some sort of measure of how much they care. Their convictions are what allowed them to be rescued from Oblivion, rather than going quietly into that good night.

But that brings out the V:tM issue. Many feel that Humanity is a restrictive influence, because it's a measure of how far you can go before your character is done for, which is separate from injury and death, and is a restriction on how you play your character. The Paths offered to the Sabbat sect, and in the Dark Ages version of the game offer notably more flexibility, though. Do you think this might be an issue if I instituted some sort of Conviction stat?

One of the things I am seeing must be built in to any character in this game is that they do *want* to fight against Oblivion, in one way or another, for one reason or another. If they simply didn't care what happens to the world or themselves, they wouldn't have had the drive and determination to resist succumbing to Oblivion long enough to be rescued by Mortis in the first place (For reference, PCs in Sorcerer are, by definition, among the most driven and ambitious characters in the world. If they weren't, they wouldn't be sorcerers).

Having said that, I think there's certainly room for variation across the whole "really gung-ho, let's fight Oblivion" vs. "reluctant soldier, I just want to go home" spectrum.

-- Ben

So perhaps a Conviction trait which is defined by the player?

Example Convictions:

Save my family;
Save the little girl I Recoiled into the first time;
Get to Heaven/Wherever, someday....;
Fight EVIL;
I'm a soldier. It's what I do;
I can't let my new friends down;

And then a set of check conditions, determined by the GM and the player. Whenever the condition is met, you make a check to see if they lose a point of Conviction, or gain a point of Conviction.

Examples:

Whenever my family is threatened, but successfully protected, check to gain/whenever family is harmed by something I couldn't stop, check to lose;

Whenever my church/religious group is defended, check to gain, whenever I have cause to despair that Heaven/the afterlife is lost to me, check to lose;

Whenever I successfully defeat a Naughtwraith, or some other evil, check to gain/whenever something causes me to believe that the evil might win after all, check to lose;

et al.

Sound good?

Thanks to Thomas Tamblyn and "Not Evangelion" for the inspiration for these.

Torrent wrote: If you can get a hold of a copy, you might take a look at Whispering Vault. It has sort of a similar theme. PC's are dead people given power to create bodies randomly through time and space. Each mission centers about finding and fixing a flaw in reality caused by another form of being. There is the idea of being Outside of reality. In PC creation you even are supposed to describe your character's personal realm.

Torrent

Okay, back on this one. I've decided that there's enough unique that the strong resemblance in overall concept to WV isn't a big deal.

I'm toying with the idea of an in-game time limit. I like the idea, as it fits with the overall concept. But how to apply it without detracting from the play of the game is stumping me.

The idea is that Mortis, when it detects a death or mass of deaths caused by Naughtwraiths, can send the agents back in time before it happens. How long prior they can be sent back depends on the concentration of Oblivion's power used in the deaths, and is partially random. (for example, for a single, power 1 Naughtwraith it can range from half an hour to 5 hours prior to the incident.) Some of the problems arise from the level of detail that Mortis is able to get from the deaths; basic location, number of deaths, and basic circumstances surrounding it. (i.e. 15 people dead due to Naughtwraith influence, in a subway derailment within a mile of Times Square.)

The idea here is that the agents have to figure out what the Naughtwraiths are doing, how they are planning to do it, and try to stop it before it happens. So they've got to beat the clock.

The problem I'm running into is how to keep track of time without nitpicking the details of every action. Am I overestimating the problem this is going to be? I'm imagining it being a problem on longer missions (say, 4 days or so?) moreso than on shorter missions. Basically what I don't want is the game to bog down with the players arguing about how long a given action took.

Any suggestions on how this could be done? Is it even worthwhile? Or am I just exaggerating the problem in my own mind?

Hi Lance,

You wrote,

The idea here is that the agents have to figure out what the Naughtwraiths are doing, how they are planning to do it, and try to stop it before it happens. So they've got to beat the clock.

The problem I'm running into is how to keep track of time without nitpicking the details of every action. Am I overestimating the problem this is going to be? I'm imagining it being a problem on longer missions (say, 4 days or so?) moreso than on shorter missions. Basically what I don't want is the game to bog down with the players arguing about how long a given action took.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the trade-off thing, Ron. Let me give a couple scenarios, and see if you can use them to explain it to me a bit more clearly.

#1. Mortis tells you that a death has just occurred. A single person, but ripped bodily in half by another person. It can Recoil you within one block of the incident. You have (anywhere from 30 minutes to 5 hours, for this example, so we'll compromise at) two and a half hours to find the Naughtwraith and stop it before it does this.

#2. Mortis tells you that a mass of deaths has just occurred. 15 people killed, and likely many others injured in a subway car derailment, within 1 mile of Times Square in New York. You have (2.5-25 hours) twelve and a half hours to find out where and how, and stop it before it happens.

Once the agents are Recoiled, they'll have to get their bearings (which may mean with their host body, as well as the physical location) find out any information that can help them figure out how to stop the Naughtwraiths, and either track them down and destroy them, or otherwise foil the plan.

So how would you work the trade off into these situations?

Not that it has direct applicability to this game, but Jared's newly posted Ninja Game
has an interesting time mechanic that kind of meets Ron's criteria.

You draw stones from a limited supply for each unit of time you're using doing "stuff" (reseach, preparation, shopping, etc). So to get the benefit of the stuff, you wind up emptying the supply.

Might be some inspiration there.

Hi Lance,

If I'm understanding correctly, these are two separate examples, not one single two-pronged example. Right?

If I'm right ...

#1. Mortis tells you that a death has just occurred. A single person, but ripped bodily in half by another person. It can Recoil you within one block of the incident. You have (anywhere from 30 minutes to 5 hours, for this example, so we'll compromise at) two and a half hours to find the Naughtwraith and stop it before it does this.

#2. Mortis tells you that a mass of deaths has just occurred. 15 people killed, and likely many others injured in a subway car derailment, within 1 mile of Times Square in New York. You have (2.5-25 hours) twelve and a half hours to find out where and how, and stop it before it happens.

Hi Lance,

A couple of thoughts... first on Time. Why not leave time in the abstract? I don't get a particularly simmy feel from this game - it strikes me as rather, ummm, impressionistic. Instead of a random number of hours, how about a random number of scenes (which can range in length from minutes to hours)?

Also, is there any reason the characters' mission has to start with them going back in time? Could they do some after-the-fact research in the present and then go back and make some changes?

Oh... another thought... what about creating some sort of lasting connection between characters and people they use as hosts? This could go in one of many different directions, but it seems like there is a lot of potential there... if only as a source for recurring NPCs, if nothing else.


Stuart

I think limiting the number of scenes has good possibilities. Similar to the drawing of stones Ralph mentioned but... different. Every time the players want their characters to persue a certain aspect of the mission it eats a scene. The past is being eaten up Langolier style and there are only so many scenes left. ;)

You could tie in how many individual actions/rolls can be made in a scene with how well the character has adjusted to their Host body. I'm using something similar, which I refer to as Proximity, that represents how connected a character (in this case a 'goblin') is to events that take place in the When and Where (as opposed to that Outside space we're all so fond of).

-Chris

::blinks, mouth wide-open, at Ron:: Did I mention that Mortis isn't a big planner thinker?

Okay, bad excuse, because Prime is. I suppose I ought to give a little more information on the overall mission. Remember now that the agents are there to protect reality, not to act as vigilantes and stop every crime they see, though they're free to, if they wish to do so. In the first example, the idea I had was something along the lines of the Naughtwraith, possessing a person, and by brute, inhuman strength, ripping someone in half, possibly in public. The Naughtwraiths will kill whenever possible, but as their power is limited, they'll generally save their powers for when it will do the most bad, shake the most belief. In general, the specific mission will be to thwart the specific activity, but if they can dispatch the Naughtwraith in the process, all the better, because that Naughtwraith won't be able to cause anymore mischief. What Mortis tells you is limited information, because it only has limited information to give.

I also left out a lot of different things that the agents can do, such as an ability to see things not of the Coil (though it's not fool-proof) such as Naughtwraiths, and each other.

Ad for the exact events leading up to the incident, I'm thinking about a system which is pretty free and open, in similar vein as InSpectres, though not QUITE as player driven. The specifics of the crime are left undefined at first, because it hasn't happened yet, and the players' decisions can affect how it will happen, as well as the character's actions, if they fail to prevent it. The only solid things they're likely to know before Recoiling is that X amount of people died in Y fashion in the proximity of Z, due to the direct influence of Naughtwraiths.

Anyhow, I think I see where you're going with the trade-offs, but in the end I think it will be okay, because whatever causes seems most likely to the agents probably will be. Just got to look into how to implement it all.

Stuart: Time as an abstract is possible, but at the moment, it feels right to me that the time should be solid. A lot of what the players will do, in longer term missions, won't be played out in scenes until it starts getting down to the wire. I'm trying for a narrativist approach, but I've got a certain amount of Sim in my blood and bones, so the goal I'm going for is a lightly sim engine used to drive narrativist play.

As for researching in the time following the incident.. In all honesty, I never even considered it. I suppose it could be done easily enough, and now that I'm thinking on it, it would allow the players to place more concrete definitions to the event, which could circumvent some of the problems Ron mentioned. I would, however, make any time spent in the present/near future count against their total, as the available Past is catching up with the present. Thank you for giving me the idea.

On agents making personal connections with hosts, I've also considered that. At the highest level of synchronicity, the host is aware of the agent, and can actively help if they choose. One of the various different abilities of the agents will be the ability to attune themselves to a given host, so that they can find them again if they are Recoiled into that area again, rather than Recoiling into a random host. I can see some definite potential with the idea of going to research in the present of the incident with this, as well. Imagine trying to Recoil into an attuned host, only to find that you can't, because they died in the incident. It would put a definite fire under the agent's proverbial ass to stop that incident from happening.

Hi Lance,

I strongly suggest considering the following question:

Is the point of play to have a fight scene between the agents and the Noughtwraith?

If so, then all the stuff I talked about, as well as any concerns about the timing of whatever before the confrontation, is moot. They show up in time to stop it (or else there's no point). They see it, they see each other, it sees them, so there's no ambiguity. It does or doesn't kill the person is tries to get; they fight it, and kill it or drive it away. That's it.

If not, then you don't need to concern yourself with engineering the circumstances or game-system to ensure that everyone gets into "the right fight." Play in this case would focus on relationships that get established among agents themselves (e.g. differing approaches), on relationships with the actual people in the situation (which you seem to limit to hosts for some reason; note that Jeannie in my example is not the host), and on scoping out any number of issues surrounding the eventual possible confrontation - the fight is an afterthought to whatever moral issues the characters themselves are all about.

If you look at the literature surrounding The Whispering Vault (an awesome, powerful game), you will see a ton of people who answer the above question "Yes," and then are all shocked to find that the game itself assumes the answer to be "No." Then they bitch about how the game "sucks" or whatever.

Don't fall into that trap. Know your answer and drive the game, system, and presentation thereby.

Best,
Ron

Yes, and no. More yes than no.

It is possible, in many circumstances, to foil the Naughtwraith without combating it. But it has to be banished, or else it will continue to make trouble. There will be two ways to banish them, though really it's just variants on the only way. Naughtwraiths, like the agents, have a certain amount of power. Generally a lot less individually, but they've got their own advantages. That power is used to fuel their abilities, and also to keep them in the Coil to mess with things. Directly attacking the Naughtwraith can reduce their power, the same as a direct attack on the agent. Attacking the host can also reduce their power, as they'll have to heal it to keep it alive so they can inhabit it, or abandon the host, which is the same as banishment, so long as there's not a Rift. Finally, the least direct way to banish a Naughtwraith is to let it expend it's power, but fight the effects so that they do not damage the Paradigm, or at least not as much.

So, yeah. Confrontation is pretty much inevitable, but success is not necessarily so, especially if the agents don't make a concerted effort to understand and nullify whatever the Naughtwraiths are trying to do, either through preemptive banishment, or other means. It's still a victory for Oblivion if the Naughtwraiths are able to force a Rift and lay waste to a city block before the agents can banish them. I'd say that each skirmish will eventually be won by the agents, but the cost of victory is what counts in the long run.

On relationships, I didn't really mean to give the impression that hosts were all that the agents could form attachments to. But for the most part, agents can't go around advertising themselves, because most people know there's no such thing as spirits that possess people, and having it proved to them would shake their belief, which is counterproductive. When/if they reveal themselves, it'd best be in a time of great need, or done very carefully.

Hi Lance,

Forgive my brutality ...

It can't be both yes and no.

I'm not referring to whether the agents kill or fail to kill the opponent. I'm talking about whether the actual violent confrontation is the payoff and the point of play.

Think about it in the most basic of terms: I'm a guy who makes up a character to play in a game of Recoil that you're running. I make up the character. That's an investment of time, energy, attention, and social interaction on my part.

What's the payoff for me? In Recoil Dimension A, it's seeing how well my choices in character creation and play turn out as expressed in the events & outcome of, specifically, the fight. In Recoil Dimension B, it's seeing what my choices in character creation and play mean, thematically, with the outcome the fight just being one of the events involved.

No waffling, man. Either the fight is a subset of thematic character-conflict, or character-stuff is raw material and strategy for the fight. In which dimension is your game?

Best,
Ron

Well, see, that's the thing..

Violent, climactic confrontation is usually the last thing an Agent will want to get to. Most times, as the pursued, the Naughtwraiths will end up choosing the ground, and they'll likely choose places where there will be a lot of collateral damage, and a lot of people to see things that Just Aren't Possible.

Combat is going to be very simple. Human bystanders will basically be mooks, with the hosts only being able to withstand what they do because of the abilities used by the agents or Naughtwraiths. There will be a very good chance of bystanders winding up dead if battle is joined in a public place. The smart agent will either ambush the Naughtwraith in as private a place as they're able, or do their best to make the Naughtwraith use up it's powers harmlessly.

I guess what I'm trying to make clear is this: The agent can handle a couple of fairly powerful Naughtwraiths with moderate ease if violent confrontation is all it's about. A small group of agents is more than a match for a medium to large group of Naughtwraiths. But it's not about the fight. It's about saving the people, and preserving reality. All the power in the world can't do that by itself; the agents have to use it properly. The Naughtwraiths have no scruples about destroying everything, in fact that's what they're there for. The agents have to stop them from doing that without destroying it all themselves.

So, I guess I don't really know if the answer is yes, or no. Conflict is inevitable, but battle is to be avoided unless you know you can win. Kinda like TRoS. What's worth fighting for, and when is it worth it to fight?

Forgive me for plunging into the discussion at this point, but isn't Ron asking "what's the reward for the players?"

Is it gonna be about "beating the bad guys" (let's separate it from the setting specific details for a while) or is it about figuring out how to work as an agent or something completely different?

For example, in D&D we had the task of defeating monsters, if the players' characters defeated monsters they were successful.

At which point can we say that a player has success? What is supposed to be the thing generating satisfaction?

Satisfaction in gamist D&D play is seeing the character improving and winning getting big rewards.

In a narrativist game on the other hand, the satisfaction might come out of creating a meaningful theme through play.

Satisfaction, I think, will be based on defeating the Naughtwraiths (I don't really think it can be separated from the setting. The setting, in this case, makes the game.) without causing more damage. I think it will also come from learning more about who the character is, through play.

The way I'm intending it, who you WERE isn't important. You don't have such things as gender, racial background, skin color, religion, nationality, social class to help you determine who you are. You're a disembodied spirit with only vague recollections of your life, and it's entirely on you who and what you become. Even your name is yours to choose and change as you wish. Many people would lose their identity, and fade away without something to help them define themselves. But the point is that the agents aren't that sort of person. They were strong enough of spirit to fight off Oblivion and become an agent. Now they have to decide who they want to be, and what's worth fighting for.

Err, yeah. Tangent, sorry. I'll try to answer you a bit more specifically Chris.

The reward, as I see it, is that of any other game; An entertaining night of roleplaying. What makes it entertaining is meant to be a mixture of tactical thinking, in order to defeat the Naughtwraiths, and a certain amount of self-exploration. (Err. Damn, guess it's going to be a Sim game afterall, isn't it? Heh. I guess I'm stuck in a rut.) So long as the players enjoy themselves, they have succeeded. The characters' level of success is based on whether or not they can defeat the Naughtwraiths' aims without causing undue damage to people, property, and reality themselves.

Is this clearing up any ambiguity, or am I only managing to make it worse?

To me it still sounds like you haven't decided yourself what the game is really about. On one hand you have the "kill monsters"-theme which is fairly trivial. Take AD&D and give the characters other powers and a different backstory but still the same play.

But I'm gonna step out on a limb here and say that this is probably not what you want. In that case, killing naughwraiths are just a backdrop for the real story. The real story being about the characters.

Compare the AD&D style of play where characters and setting just for a backdrop for defeating monsters.

I think it's best if you have a primary objective in mind: the character do this and the players are exploring this.

You've already answered the former (naughtwraith hunting), what about the latter?

I disagree, Christoffer. The mission idea can be the entire goal of play. If it's not, then Ygg is seriously in trouble, because from what I can see it's all about killing monsters.

That said, why can't a game be about two things simultaneously. Lance will have to work out how that will work, but it's certainly far from impossible.

Mike

After giving myself a few days to try to get used to it, I've been forced to conclude that the title "Recoil" won't work, IMHO. I really do like the cleverness of the derivation -- re + coil as in "mortal coil" = "recoil" = afterlife return to the physical plane. But unfortunately, in the modern world "Recoil" as a title can only mean it's a game about (or at least, that uses lots of) guns.

- Walt

How about:

Re>Coil

Hip, easyto reproduce in any font, and you get to keep the name while not only making it obvious that there's an alternate meaning, but enticing the reader to find out what that meaning is.

Mike

::frowns::

I can see your point, Walt, but at least part of me is saying "Who cares if people's first impression is wrong?". That's the part of me that wants to stay pure to the original concepts and terms in that single, hand-written page I did so many months ago. On the other hand, the more rational side of me knows that packaging (name, cover art, etc.) can make or break a game, and if I want to see it in print, I should keep in mind.

So we'll call "Recoil" a working title, with the understanding that it may very well need to go when I come to a finished product.. And I would like very much to finish this. Mage Blade is still my baby, but I'm coming to realize that I've really got to settle on a direction and focus for it if I ever want to complete it to my satisfaction.. So it's shelved, for now.

I think that this Concept thread is starting to wind down, so I figure to let it drop off for now. I'm going to organize the ideas put forth by myself and others in this thread, then start working to put the mechanics into some sort of presentable form for another post, probably within the next week or so.

Mike Holmes wrote: I disagree, Christoffer. The mission idea can be the entire goal of play. If it's not, then Ygg is seriously in trouble, because from what I can see it's all about killing monsters.

That said, why can't a game be about two things simultaneously. Lance will have to work out how that will work, but it's certainly far from impossible.

ReCoil works just fine. Pay no attention to Walt, he's been contrary ever since 'the accident'. ;)

Seriously though, I think that an appropriate sub-heading, cover art, etc. that suggest that the name of the game doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means creates a desire to pick up the game and look at it.

-Chris

p.s. I started thinking about why we call them 'dice'. I mean, I've never cut up my stir-fry with a d8...

Pay no attention to Walt, he's been contrary ever since 'the accident'.

C. Edwards wrote: ReCoil works just fine. Pay no attention to Walt, he's been contrary ever since 'the accident'. ;)

Christoffer Lernö wrote: Like I said, just my impression. My impression is that the "kill monsters" just became default to Lance out of habit rather than necessity. In WV which in many ways is similar to Lance's concept, I never got the feeling that it was a "kill the monster"-game, despite that what you did in every adventure was to hunt down and kill a monster.

One last revisit to this thread, with a hint of the mechanics I'm developing. The dual-focus of the game is to be supported by two of the primary "meta" mechanics.

The aforementioned Conviction stat will be the one and only way that an agent can "die". If it drops to 0, they risk permanent death, giving in to Oblivion. They're in some sort of spiritual funk, their reason for fighting having proven less than adequate. If they are Recoiled when it happens, they risk Oblivion when they return to Outside. If they are Outside they risk Oblivion when they Recoil. It's a highly precarious position, so they've got to find a new reason, and quickly. The intent here is to keep the reason that the character fights always in the forefront of the player's mind, and (for those who like a little sadism in the early morning) gives the GM something to aim at. It's somewhat like the SAs in TRoS, in that it's a direct statement to the GM and the rest of the group. THIS is what is important to my character.

The reward mechanic will be somewhat fickle, but based on efficient execution of their mission. Basically, it goes like this.. When the mission begins, it has a set Oblivion rating, which is the total power points allocated to the Naughtwraiths. For each point of Oblivion, 1d10 is rolled. They're totaled up, and this becomes the Mortis Pool, which represents the total amount of power that Mortis can supply for that time period. Each character begins play with their Mortis rating equal to their Power score. That is it's max. Their Mortis rating can be depleted by using powers, affecting reality, or by direct damage to the agent. If it reaches 0, they're temporarily removed from the Coil, though they can reenter almost immediately. (though, unless they Attuned with the host, they're not likely to return to the same host) Whenever the individual character's Mortis rating drops below max, it will refill at a rate of 1 point per hour, or it can be refilled entirely by using one of the agent's powers. It refills from the Mortis Pool. The reward mechanic comes in when the mission is completed; any unused points in the Mortis Pool are divided up amongst the agents who participated in the mission, becoming "experience points" that can be used to improve the character, or as "meta-points". The specifics of these will be covered in detail later. This is designed to encourage the players and characters to think tactically, and make their actions count for as much as they're able.

So, do you think I'm on the right track?

Couple of potential problems. First, mechanics that reward the player for not using their abilities can make for dull play. The players are encouraged to be subtle, and only use their abilities when they really need to. This may even make sense inside of the context of the game, but it makes players tentative. Hit points are a classic example. Rather than make players less cautious, lots of HP make players more cautious as they know that they'll need every one of them eventually. Interestingly, you find that in games where a character can die at any moment, that they'll act more heroically if the results of heroic actions is an increase to effectiveness. Because then heroism makes tactical sense. It doesn't when monitoring resources is key.

Also, how do we know when the mission is over? Are the players out to reduce the "Oblivion" rating to zero? What if the Mortis roll goes really good? Does that make it too easy to win? What if it goes too low? Does that make a win impossible? Why not have a set amount, or at least less variability? How many dice are we talking about anyhow? What's the range of Oblivion ratings? If it's above 20, then this isn't a problem. Below 5, and it definitely is.

Mike

I've got a spreadsheet (though not quite the same sort of thing as you do) that randomly rolls for Oblivion rating 10, 15 and 20 missions, and divides it among a number of players, for an average amount of points per player. 10 appears probably to be the lowest recommended range for 5 or so players (which, honestly, is the largest number of players I'd recommend running in ANY game, but that's personal preference) Also, it's intended that the actual amount in the Mortis Pool wouldn't be made known to the players, so they're not going to monitoring more than their personal usage. So far it seems like it should be enough, but that's a playtest issue, I think. You could, of course, be totally right about it's effect on the player's playstyles.. Hm. I want them to be leary about their use of power, but do you think it will actually inhibit them from using it in circumstances where it will be necessary? Perhaps an additional means of recharging their individual Mortis ratings, based on their Conviction stat, which does not draw from the Mortis Pool?

The mission is over when either: A) All the Naughtwraiths are eliminated (which basically means that, yes, the Oblivion points for the mission have been depleted.) B) The time of the "incident" comes and goes without it happening. In the latter case, Naughtwraiths might still be around to cause mischief, but their coordination or power level has been sufficiently disrupted that they're not likely to make concerted mischief for a while yet.

With regards the Time problem you are (or were - I'm posting this because though the conversation has moved on, but you didn't seem to settle on a solution so might yet find this useful), why not just use real time? If the mission needs to be completed in 2 hours, then if the plaers haven't stopped the noughtwraith in 2 hours of play, they fail.

Since you say you want something fairly simmy I'd suggest also moving time forward between scenes as appropriate for (say) long journeys, research or delays that you don't want to roleplay through.

This has the rather nice consequence that the players will become increasingly frantic as the fail-time approaches as well as the characters.

Sounds pretty good, Lance. Especially keeping things blind. That way players won't have a target to keep an eye on. They'll spend when neccessary, and consider things closely in non-essential circumstances.

Still, I sorta like that Conviction stat idea. Somethig to mix things up a bit. And if, while you're at it, you can get the player's Convictions to conflict with the misssion priorities, I think you're on the road to some interesting intra-party play. One of the great things aobut mission-style play is that intra-party conflict is always cool. The characters have strong incentives to keep from really going off on each other, but that just eans that things simmer for long periods. And it's cool to see the mission format bust open when a player finally does have his character go rogue.

Got any rules for that?

Mike

Rules for going rogue...

That would be kinda difficult. I mean, when you ReCoil, nobody can make you come back, but chances are, you're going to run out of Mortis eventually, which means you go back Outside And once you're there, only Mortis can send you back.

Hm. I guess I could see this becoming an interesting story twist... Something to think about.