Hello all. After seeing who some of you folks are, I feel like a guppy extra in a John Woo remake of Jaws. But here goes. We want to publish an rpg. I know, surprise surprise. IMP is a simple game whose premise is that the PC's are imps that have been kicked out of Hell for one reason or another. To return, they must build up a large amount of malevolent power, which is gained based on the Seven Deadly Sins. The play background is a dark medieval Britain. We have a Yahoo groups site here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scarecrowgames/

Please post any comments, criticisms, etc... We need to know what you like and don't like. Play it, tweak it, fiddle with it, and get back to us.

Thank you for your time.


Brian Rayburn
The Scarecrow King

Hey Brian,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the group is closed to non-members. Would you care to tell us why we should join yet another Yahoo group? Details would be great.

Later,
Grant

Hi Brian,

I'll state it a little differently - can you provide us with a little bit of introductory text here? Or perhaps a basic run-down of the game's point of play?

Best,
Ron

Grant, your question stumped me for a moment, until I took a look at the site settings and realized I had goofed on the 'Files may be viewed by public' part. The files are now on the right setting. As to Ron's question, I hope I understand, and that this helps.

The characters are defined by Experience (X) and Zeal (Z). These are a 2D3 roll each, and the score is the number of dice you roll when making a Test. If the character has an appropriate Talent, one extra die is rolled. Odd numbers are ignored, 2 & 4 are 1 success each, and 6 is 2 successes. The number of successes must exceed the difficulty of the task. Combat is a simple opposed roll, with the lower number of successes subtracted from the higher roll. This plus a weapon modifier is the damage taken by the loser. Supernatural powers are called Hexes. Only a dozen or so are in the demo, but the full version will have over 50 I believe. They are powered by the imp's Malevolence (Mal) stat, which also governs character improvement.

The full rules will have a village called Larksbridge as the setting, with NPC's and what-not. There will also be rules for creating Fae or even mortal characters.

Hope this answers a few questions at least. :-)


Brian

I'll take a quick stab at this, even without reading the rules, but..

There will also be rules for creating Fae or even mortal characters.

Maybe you're ready to do a terrific job with mortals and fae, but unless you feel sure about that I second Lance's suggestion to drop them and focus on the imps.

I like how you've made the sample imps rather easy to conjure an image of, despite it just being one or two sentences. In the course of creating a character maybe one should have to write up "why you're here", "what your favorite sins are" and "dreams and goals".

I know I'd like something like that, preferrably with a random tables with providing some idea what they should look like for first time players?

Hey Brian,

First impressions: simple system, brutal combat, I am puzzled about limiting auto-successes to 2, Imps wear anachronistic armor?, hex durations should be explicit, how are Wounds and Age determined? in fact, how are any stats determined?

Later,
Grant

Hello Brian, and welcome aboard. I'm not sure who you are intimidated by. Don't be. You're a designer; we're designers. :-)

Grant, it is Medieval Britain. What's the anachronistic part?

The only problem I see with the game is that I'm not sure what the point is. Are you trying to get back to hell? Is that a victory condition? These characters are only sympathetic in a sort of bumbling minor villain sort of way. I can see that for a one-shot, but not for a long term game. What are the players looking forward to?

Mike

Hello, Brian. Welcome to the Forge.

I have not read the files on your site yet, but I have read your descriptions of it on this thread. Designer summaries are a bit more telling, I find, because it shows what a designer *thinks* their game is about and can help point out areas where improvement is needed.

If you haven't yet, I suggest you read kill puppies for satan. (Find links in the Rescource Library) It is a similar game if many way, yet different from your concept. I think you will find it inspirational.

Like Wolfen and Christoffer, I would urge you to remain focused on what your gasme is about, which is Imps, not fae or mortals. However a loophole is you might want to be able to make up stats for NPC fae and mortals. kpfs does this with stats for sorcerers, witches, ghouls and space aliens. So you can include stuff on these kinds of characters.

EDIT: I cross posted the question below with Mike, but we both phrased it differently.
Now, I am a bit confused about what IMPS is really about. You had said:

scarecrowking wrote: premise is that the PC's are imps that have been kicked out of Hell for one reason or another. To return, they must build up a large amount of malevolent power, which is gained based on the Seven Deadly Sins.

Wow. 7 more replies than I anticipated! ;-)

The full version is around 32 pages w/o art at the moment. It has all the char creation rules and a good bit of background to get started. Yes, there is combat, but the demo rules pretty much contain the entire section on that. Mal must be increased to 666 (i know) in order to become a demon and return in all your dark glory to the pits. As far as Hex durations, it states either instant (such as Sigil) or for minutes equal to the imp's current Mal (like Mask).
Experience (X) is the mental trait, and Zeal (Z) is the physical trait. The original designer had included only X in the version he posted to the net, but we've tinkered with the system a bit since then. I've had a little experience with single-trait games (TWERPS anyone?) and feel that at least 2 are needed so as to give enough variation among characters.
Gaining Malevolence (Mal) is based on the 7DS like I said, and is awarded by the GM (no silly 'Imp Master' or what) on a case-by-case basis, usually 1-3 points per sin, but like all games it could be more. The only sin that awards Mal for combat is Wrath. No, combat isn't a major focus, but it does come up (you know how those pesky players are).
Dead imps? Dead. Gone. Evaporated. These, then, would be ex-imps.

Hope this helps a little more. Keep any questions coming, I'll do my best to answer, or at least mumble meaningfully.



Brian

Well, from what you've posted I would guess that the point of the game would be to get back to hell by doing nasty things.

I can see this being attractive in only one way. And that's if it's just supposed to be a dark comeptition to get there first. Because I'm not seeing any elements that make the characters in any way sympathetic. So we're not trying to make some thematic statements here. And I really don't even want to think about immersing in these characters. I couldn't have fun doing that.

So, again, I conclude it's a competition. So does the game support that well? Or is my assessment off somehow?

Mike

scarecrowking wrote: Experience (X) is the mental trait, and Zeal (Z) is the physical trait. The original designer had included only X in the version he posted to the net, but we've tinkered with the system a bit since then. I've had a little experience with single-trait games (TWERPS anyone?) and feel that at least 2 are needed so as to give enough variation among characters.

Gaining Malevolence (Mal) is based on the 7DS like I said, and is awarded by the GM (no silly 'Imp Master' or what) on a case-by-case basis, usually 1-3 points per sin, but like all games it could be more.

No, combat isn't a major focus, but it does come up (you know how those pesky players are).
Dead imps? Dead. Gone. Evaporated. These, then, would be ex-imps.

As a follow-up to Jack's post, you might want to read Mike's Standard Rant #3. It's about how combat systems are unneccecary.

Personally, I'd have a higher chance of enjoying IMP if it was about getting others to do the sins, rather than doing them your self.

As an interesting side note, this system could probably used for the exact opposite of it's current premise with little or no modification: What if you were an angel that was kicked out of heavan, and were trying to get back? Just switch the names and descriptions (but not rules) of the Hexes, call them Blessings, and change Malevolence to Righteousness or something.

edit: url =! rul

For oodles of fun, allow players to make either Imps or Shoulder Angels (kicked out of heaven until they prove their commitment to good), or both, and have them beset the same person, in order to either corrupt him or redeem him, whether he likes it or not! (Good and Evil can be pushy that way...)

Definitely rearrange IMP so that they must convince others to sin. More strategy/psychology that way.

Also, have it such that, unless they use Mask or some cunning, they lose all points accumulated if they are "caught in the act" or exposed for what they are.

I'd like to add some rules for Imps operating on sacred ground, rules for exorcism, etc. , just for variety.

Hmmm...

First, hey Jack, I liked Troll Quest. Just realized who you are!

Mike: I could ask the same thing about superhero games. Where's the fun? The mayor calls, you rush off and whump the bad guy, collect experience, rinse, repeat. Loads of fun there, from my point of view.

Yes, the imps can gain Mal by convincing others to commit sins. Envy and Sloth are the two biggest examples, although accomplishing this through the other sins isn't impossible. Jack's example of Braag getting points for doing nothing is incorrect. Sloth works the other way, if you get others to do your dirty work for you, you may get points. And points aren't awarded for simple slaughter, at least not after the first 2 or 3 points. If a thief sits around his room at the inn and picks the same lock over and over again, for days and days, should he get experience every time?

Combat: Yes, it comes up. But a standard human is a threat to a standard imp, that's why it is called Imp and not Demon. ;-) And the imps know if they are killed, they cease to be, they do not simply return to Hell.

Fanboy: If the imps are caught in the act, they will probably end up tied to a stake, on fire, or simply hacked into pieces. Medieval villagers aren't too keen on creatures of darkness wandering around mucking things up.

I think the problem, if I am seeing things with the right kind of eyes, is that I'm discussing a small, 'for fun'' rpg on a site dedicated to large, genre-shaking games. I don't expect people to drop Truncheons & Flagons 9th Edition and play my game exclusively. Just hoping someone sees it and will enjoy getting together with a couple buddies and (in game) cause a little mischief for a couple hours.

BTW, Jack, TWERPS was ok, but we had more fun with making up the silly names than actually designing the game. In hindsight, I kind of wish I had put a little more effort into the bits I was responsible for instead of falling back on bad puns and childish humor. C'est la vie.


OK, back to the design board. Gonna talk to my partner and see what we can come up with.


Brian

scarecrowking wrote: Mike: I could ask the same thing about superhero games. Where's the fun? The mayor calls, you rush off and whump the bad guy, collect experience, rinse, repeat. Loads of fun there, from my point of view.

scarecrowking wrote:
I think the problem, if I am seeing things with the right kind of eyes, is that I'm discussing a small, 'for fun'' rpg on a site dedicated to large, genre-shaking games. I don't expect people to drop Truncheons & Flagons 9th Edition and play my game exclusively. Just hoping someone sees it and will enjoy getting together with a couple buddies and (in game) cause a little mischief for a couple hours.
Brian

scarecrowking wrote: First, hey Jack, I liked Troll Quest. Just realized who you are!

BTW, Jack, TWERPS was ok, but we had more fun with making up the silly names than actually designing the game. In hindsight, I kind of wish I had put a little more effort into the bits I was responsible for instead of falling back on bad puns and childish humor. C'est la vie.

OK, back to the design board. Gonna talk to my partner and see what we can come up with.

Firstly, let me say I like the idea of imp-characters and I'm interested. However, the points made about why players would/should play this game are strong. In reading through the thread, it struck me that you could have one hell of a game with imps (or demons, or devils, or whatever) who had escaped from Hell and, rather than wanting to return, what to kepp, ermm... the hell away from the fiery pits. This would allow you to introduce key conflict and plot elements and provide more reasons for player involvement. Just how you'd do it though is another matter.

simon wrote: Firstly, let me say I like the idea of imp-characters and I'm interested. However, the points made about why players would/should play this game are strong. In reading through the thread, it struck me that you could have one hell of a game with imps (or demons, or devils, or whatever) who had escaped from Hell and, rather than wanting to return, what to kepp, ermm... the hell away from the fiery pits. This would allow you to introduce key conflict and plot elements and provide more reasons for player involvement. Just how you'd do it though is another matter.

Jeph wrote: I must admit, that is an interesting concept for the game, but not really supported by the mechanics. It takes away motivation to gain TONS of Mal; just enough to fuel your Hexes.

First, apologies to Brian for polymorphing his game! But he has triggered quite a few thoughts among folks here and, well, that must be good. So, to risk further transmutation what about this:-

1. The imps are escapees from Hell and they don't wanna go back.
2. They have seven stats based on the seven deadly sins.
3. When three of these stats reach 6 together up pops Old Nick and drags you back screaming to the pits of hell.
4. Each character has a passion or drive or motive; something which was so strong that it led to his escape from Hell. This passion needs fulfilling. For example, after having spent eons in hell you realise that being an evil dude just aint no fun. In a previous incarnation you did something to somebody and now that somebodies descendents are suffering. Your passion is to right the wrong you did.
5. The game centres around the fulfilment of these drives/passions.
6. The road to hell, however, is paved with good intentions. In trying to fulfil your passion you have to face the minions of Baal and even simple every day temptations. Failing to overcome them raises you stats, which takes you closer to Hell but gives you more power.
7. Your passion also has a numerical rating and this is used to resolve conflicts (dice pool?).
8. If you fail your conflict roll then the number by which you failed is translated into gains for the seven stats (players choose which is/are raised).
9. The 7 stats are also used as floating dice pools. In a situation where gluttony seems appropriate, for example, you can add a number of dice up to the score in that rating to your passion pool when resolving the conflict. BUT, failure means an instant 6 in that stat score. If the stat is already 6, then 6 points must be distributed throughout the other stats as the player sees fit.

Clearly, this is a crude outline and offered merely as a suggestion as to how to bend the mechanics for Imps who want to avoid a one-wat return to Hell. What do you think, Brian?