Hey guys~

Well, I've started a campaign with the Birthright setting from TSR and, so far, everything's running well. However, I've had some inquiries made from some of my players and, well, that's why I'm here.

A few months ago I picked up TROS and ran a game in Weryth (?) and it was a smashing success for all but one player. We had a great time sneaking into a castle and causing havok on a warring country and everyone loved the combat system (again, except for one person). When I started my Birthright campaign, a setting that I and my players soak up, everyone was content with using the ADnD second edition rules... until now. Out of our group of 6, four players want to convert to TROS after having a taste of it; one player complained that it was too much trouble to "try and survive every battle like my life depends on it" (I love the irony of that one), but I might still go ahead because of the feedback from the others. Anyway, my problem is fourfold, so I'll go ahead and ask:

1) For those of you who haven't heard of BR, its a campaign of kings and wizards and monsters (think Story of Ice and Fire on lsd) published by now-extinct TSR. I'm still wondering how to fight monsters in TROS... I know the book OBAM is coming out in about a month, so I'm *desperately* waiting for that to come out. Until then, though, has anyone tried to simulate monsters in their campaign? I'm interested in hearing about some experiences and how they turned out.

2) On the skill side of the game, in the previous game we played with TROS all of them were fighters one way or another. This time around I have a rogue who loves to slink around, and a cleric as well (which I know isn't in TROS per se, but I'm thinking of making him a fighter-based character with some granted powers from his god ). Can a character strongly rely on their skills based on TROS's skill system? Or would you recommend they still amp up on fighting skills to give them a chance?

3) Ah, magic. I know there has been a lot of discussion about this, and TROS's magic is my second largest problem. I've got a mage character who's focus is on the elements (water); she really likes the diverse flavor of magic in ADnD (so do I). She's up for going with TROS as well but wants to keep the focus of her character as it is in ADnD. Is this even possible? I've looked through it and I'm not so sure. But please, if anyone knows of a way to keep this character's focus on Elementalism, please let me know!

4) The last question is about massive warfare. I think I've heard that the Flower of Combat book-to-be has information on this, and I've got a side-system that can fill in the void for mass combat until then, but I'm still curious to whether anyone's tried to homebrew their own way of duking it out with hundreds of men in TROS.

Well, there you have it. I'm trying to combine my fave setting with my fave system. For the most part it fits seemlessly (especially because BR has its own rules for ruling a kingdom, ect. that can be used with any system); just the items mentioned above are a bit shaky. Maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew, but I think its worth it. If anyone has feedback please let me know!

Thanks,

Charlie

P.S. [insert comment here] Shout-out to Jake Norwood, btw, for making an awesome game. My players thank you! Of course, thats more work for ME, but I like it too, so all is forgiven. :)

Charlie-

Thanks for the shout. Do a search on this forum to find more birthright threads, as it's come up a few times. Glad to hear you're rockin' it.

Jake

Gidday, welcome to the forum!

Before I start, I just want to say that Birthright is a pretty good setting to use TROS rules in, IMO. Certainly a better fit than most of the other DnD worlds.

r_callen221 wrote: I'm still wondering how to fight monsters in TROS...

r_callen221 wrote: Can a character strongly rely on their skills based on TROS's skill system? Or would you recommend they still amp up on fighting skills to give them a chance?

r_callen221 wrote: Ah, magic

r_callen221 wrote: The last question is about massive warfare

r_callen221 wrote: Shout-out to Jake Norwood, btw, for making an awesome game.

TRoS Birthright? Why didn't I think of that before!?!

Here's a few thoughts off the top of my head -

With regard to #3, perhaps you could create a new Sorcerous Flaw that imposes a SP penalty to any spells that do *not* incorporate an ice element? I'm not hugely familiar with the magic system, but I'd guess that Sculpture/Intricacy 1 (basic geometric shapes) could add ice crystals to just about any Spell of Three.

With regard to #2, realize that spiritual attributes trump almost any mechanic in the system - in *and out* of combat. In my game, I've seen five dice of SA's turn a competent but lackluster fighter into a powerful blade of vengeance... but I've also seen five dice of SA's turn an already gifted public speaker into an instant folk hero and demagogue. Your rogue character, when doing something that directly aligns with his SA's, will be virtually invisible, a shadow among shadows... while the cleric, with faith and drive on his side, can accomplish pretty much anything that he sufficiently believes in.

Guys~

Jake, I do apologize for not delving deeper into the forum for Birthright information. I jumped the gun a bit because I was stewing over these things at work for about 5 hours and just posted without thinking. So I will check for the other threads. Thanks for mentioning it.

Brian, thanks for the inside information :). I'm pretty creative; I think I'm up to the challenge of making things up on the fly. Heck, I'm a DM; we do that stuff for a living! And thanks for the insight on the focus of the game, as well. Its easy to get wrapped up about making the game work for combat vs. making the combat system work for the game. The player that made the "fight for my life" statement is very used to bashing heads every other minute during play; I'm making my campaign much more intricate than that, with politics involved (not to WoD extent, but there is some) and warfare. Also, we've been playing for about a month now, and I'm pleased (and a bit surprised) that said player is enjoying the game; we haven't had direct combat yet, either.

Oh, and I don't mean for anyone to get started on the magic. :) I just had to say "Aww, magic" once in a posting at this forum; now I feel like one of the team! And as far as my players actually buying their own books instead of relying on me to carry that burden... I'll give you their email and you can talk with them about it. I'm amazed at the cheapness of my gaming group. But I do buy double with some group money, so I'll save up for TFOB and hopefully be able to pick up a couple.

Hanschristiananderson, thanks for the information. I'll check up on the Sorcerous Flaw (I myself don't know much about the system either, having never used it in-game). As far as the spiritual attributes, I never thought of using them that way, as kind of an outside source providing power to the person (if I didn't mistake what you posted, that is). I'll definitely look into that as well.

Thanks for the quick responses, guys. At this point (midnight) I'm rambling, so I'll get off before I tarnish my reputation in the forum. I appreciate the information!

G'night

Charlie

If you want to try it, I'd say the biggest thing that needs to be changed from TRoS magic to most other systems is the cost of casting. I don't know of any other setting or system which ages the sorcerer, after all. Also, it might be worthwhile to have a new Vagary which creates a given element from nothing. Add this vagary to the existing ones for a plethora of D&D-like spell effects.

As for your cleric, the TRoS sorcery system is also workable, with some tweaking. For one, certain "rules" will have to be tossed, such as resurrection. Almost all of the clerical spells from D&D can be recreated using TRoS sorcery. For clerics, you'll just want to have their costs reflect the goals of their deity. Perhaps if they serve a god of life and light, they have reduced costs for life-giving spells, but increased costs for doing harm. Beyond that, whether it's sorcerous or divine is mostly a matter of color.

Guys~

I've got one more question for ya, regarding magic.

You see, I'm trying to do this conversion with BR in the midst of play (which the players don't mind and encourage because they like TROS), and I'm wondering if something like this will work for the wizard character IMC (to keep the flaver of the elementalist that she is):

Stick with the spells on the spell list that she's memorized and make sure she has the correct Vagaries to simulate them, and allow her to learn more "spells" as she progresses, right from the ADnD books. By converting the spells and sticking with the spell level concept, we can stay her godlike magic to something a little more manageable for me ATM, and she can learn what its like to use the vagary system of casting, slowly breaking the mold of ADnD that she's used to. She liked the idea even though it limits her spellcaster by TROS perspective; she's all for keeping with her character concept.

Along that line, I didn't think it was half bad. I also thought it would be interesting to see how that works with the other schools of magic by ADnD. I think it would put to the test the Vagaries' ability to cast any spell we want, and it would tone down the magic a bit, a BR trait.

Before you groan about me trying to stay with ADnD, let me say this in defence: I'm trying to ease the conversion onto my players without totally throwing them out of whack with the game we're playing now (FYI, this is going to be an extended campaign lasting at least a few more months, if not a year or two, the longest we've ever played, which is why I'm trying to convert it in the first place. That's way too long w/o my TROS!). I think, after a bit of play and practice and learning the game, we'll all be able to use TROS's spell system from as was intended; for now, I'll sacrifice spellpower for campaign stability.

Anyway, what do you think? Would this be doable? By reading the book, I'd say "sort of," but I've not had the chance to use the Vagary rules in play. If you have some experience, please hand out your opinion! This poor DM needs some advice else he gets lost in his own conversion.

Thanks,

Charlie

PS- Brian, thanks for the welcome. Most welcome! ;)

r_callen221 wrote: 3) Ah, magic. I know there has been a lot of discussion about this, and TROS's magic is my second largest problem. I've got a mage character who's focus is on the elements (water); she really likes the diverse flavor of magic in ADnD (so do I). She's up for going with TROS as well but wants to keep the focus of her character as it is in ADnD. Is this even possible? I've looked through it and I'm not so sure. But please, if anyone knows of a way to keep this character's focus on Elementalism, please let me know!

Mark~

Definitely. Keep me posted! The magic IMC comes directly from nature so its only fitting that the elements play a very big part in the magic of my world. So yes, let me know if you intend to post it somewhere or share it with fellow forum ppl; I'll be in line. :)

Charlie

r_callen221 wrote: So yes, let me know if you intend to post it somewhere or share it with fellow forum ppl; I'll be in line. :)

Mark~

Thanks for the post and link to that; I think I'm going to try it out with my troupe. One thing I need help with, though- what do the terms mean? I've never played in Harn and don't recognize the words (e.g. Savorya, Fyvria). Are they the elements? I need it dumbed down for me :).

Charlie

[edit] One other thing. I know there has been discussion about using the Ars Magica spell system in TROS; how well does this work? The reason I'm asking is because I own Ars Magica (bought it on a whim; got some great deals from the website) and have never used it but really wanted to. Can the system there be ported into TROS?

This isn't to take away what you've been doing, Mark. I'm interested in your interpretation and I'd like to stay within the boundaries of the book as printed. I just thought I might be able to put my $30 investment to work :)

r_callen221 wrote: Mark~

Thanks for the post and link to that; I think I'm going to try it out with my troupe. One thing I need help with, though- what do the terms mean? I've never played in Harn and don't recognize the words (e.g. Savorya, Fyvria). Are they the elements? I need it dumbed down for me :).

Mark~

Just wondering, because you lowered the maximum vagary level and limit them per school, do you need to lower the overall proficiency level for starting characters as well?

Charlie

r_callen221 wrote: Just wondering, because you lowered the maximum vagary level and limit them per school, do you need to lower the overall proficiency level for starting characters as well?

r_callen221 wrote: 3) Ah, magic. I know there has been a lot of discussion about this, and TROS's magic is my second largest problem. I've got a mage character who's focus is on the elements (water); she really likes the diverse flavor of magic in ADnD (so do I). She's up for going with TROS as well but wants to keep the focus of her character as it is in ADnD. Is this even possible? I've looked through it and I'm not so sure. But please, if anyone knows of a way to keep this character's focus on Elementalism, please let me know!

Bob~

That's a neat thought and one that I'll look into. My only mage has talked with me about that and she's willing to stick with her "spell list" from ADnD. I'm interested in putting this to the test, though; how would she purchase her Caster Level? And how does the mana point system work IYC?

Charles
A friendly old kid with all the questions :)

r_callen221 wrote: Bob~

That's a neat thought and one that I'll look into. My only mage has talked with me about that and she's willing to stick with her "spell list" from ADnD. I'm interested in putting this to the test, though; how would she purchase her Caster Level? And how does the mana point system work IYC?

Charles
A friendly old kid with all the questions :)

Great. Thanks!

Charles