Hi, not sure if anyone ever reads these "hello, I'm such and such" kind of posts, but what the hell. Been meaning to join The Forge for a while now, but kind of got sidetracked.

I'm Malcolm Craig, by the way. The only thing of any note I've done game-design wise is the a/state RPG (soon to be released! Oh yeah?).

Heard a lot of good things about The Forge and having browsed through a few threads, it certainly seems like an excellent community.

Won't waste any more of your time.

Cheers
Malc

Hi Malcolm welcome to The Forge,

Well, nobody reads these posts as a rule because they're against the policy of the forum to post. That is, nobody posts them. I'm not a moderator (I just play one in RPGs), but that's the policy as I understand it.

That said, you did mention your system. If you start discussing something about it, then you'd be back on topic. So what can you tell us about it? Give us some question about it so that we've something to chew on. Like, do we think that EXPs make sense in a game about wandering pygmy tribes. That sort of thing. :-)

Mike

Whoops. Apologies to all. Just a general tendency on my part. Sorry. I'll make an effort to read the forum guidelines more thoroughly now.

Cheers
Malc

How about you tell us something about your game, and make it "official"?

Chris :)

Thanks for the get out clause! It always seems someone needs to clean up after me.

Well, the game is a/state and should be released soon. It's set in an all-encompassing city (known simply as 'The City') where the majority of people live in something of an industrial revolution level of technology. Whereas there are certain people and mercantile organisations who have access to significantly higher technology. I'm wary of the 'steampunk' tag though, even though I have been influenced by writers such as Dickens, Blaylock, Gibson, Conrad et al who are often featured in discussion of that sub-genre.

The art in the game is produced by my talented friend and partner-in-crime Paul Bourne. All the art is digital but of, I believe, a high enough standard that it will find acceptance amongst gamers more used to the traditional art forms.

After many trial and tribulations, we're finally getting near to our print date (hardback, 256pp if anyone is interested) and progress on supplements is well in hand. After so mcuh time spent on the game, it'll be great to see it out there and to finally see if it gains any acceptance in the marketplace.

Thanks about it really.

Cheers for the opportunity to give a little info. Any questions, just ask.

Malc

Malcolm,

There does exist some sort of "preview" version, yes? Could you provide a link to it here?

I say all I needed to know to be favorably disposed was that a/state is produced by Scots. Tales of Gargentihr, SLA Industries...need I say more?

Thank you. The indigenous Scottish RPG industry is alive and well!

Yes, a preview does occure. However, I mkust admit that it does need a bit of an update, given the number of proofs and edits the main text of a/state has undergone since it was made availble. As soon as main book is off to the printers, we'll be doing a revised a/stateLite.

The preview is available our website http://www.contestedground.co.uk/downloads.html

Cheers
Malcolm

Hi Malcolm, good to see you here!

Are the rules hammered out in stone yet? If so it's probably too late to have any Forge style hard-core deconstruction. But is there anything still niggling you about them that we can help with, or add alternative perspectives to?

-Matt

Hello,

Welcome, Malcolm. Before this continues, I need to know something.

Is the game owned and published by its creator? Here's a bit of clarification about that ... As "senior developer," are you also the person who manages the finances and is responsible to the government in terms of taxes? Will you be handling the profit and payments? Do you have the final call about format, content, which printer to use, and all aspects of distribution and marketing? Does each and every decision regarding the game have to get vetted through you? Are you the principal and final call regarding each aspect of its design?

If the answer to any of these (or probably a bunch of similar I can come up with) is "No," then the only thing the Forge can do with a/state in this forum or the Publishing is say, "Awesome and good luck" - it can't be discussed in either one.

On the other hand, discussing its play in Actual Play, its features in RPG Theory, or (heavens) applying GNS stuff to its design in GNS Discussion, are all A-OK.

If the answer is "Yes," then carry on!

Best,
Ron

As regards whether or not a/state meets The Forge criteria for an 'indie' game, I'd say the following:

Our company (Contested Ground Studios) was set up to independently produce quality, value for money, interesting games and supplements. The company is an equal partnership, we do not answer to any investors or outside interests who can in any way control the actions of the company (in a purely fiscal sense). Decisions regarding company actions and policy are taken on a collective basis. Regarding the specifics of a/state, final call on any written content is down to me, I have the absolute final say on that particular area. Graphic design and artistic matters are handled on a more collective basis, but again I can veto any particular item in this area that I feel is totally inappropriate to the feel of the game.

In relation to the creation of the game, it has very much been a tripartite effort between myself, Paul Bourne (artist) and John Wilson (writer, kibbitzer and business manager). While the initial concept and the lions share of the writing were mine, the game could not have come about were it not for the efforts of everyone involved. In our minds, we are very much an 'indie' games company. Much of our inspiration for our ethic and way of working comes from the punk music scene rather than the games industry. Again, this is an area where I've seen many similar discussion regarding whether or not a particular record label is 'punk' or not. Fat Wreck Chords is often attacked by many people for not being 'really punk' despite the fact they are owned by Fat Mike of NOFX (along with his business and creative partners) and have a long history of promoting and bringing forward new acts. To me, this is the same situation we are in. We firmly believe in our independence, as both a real business state and as an attitude.

That having been said, it is not for me to go against a policy which is applied strictly and is the main criteria for participation in these forums. I think the cireria are limited in scope and somewhat narrow, but this is obviously not affecting the vibrancy and success of The Forge.

In conclusion, it seems that a/state will probably not meet the required criteria for an 'indie' game by the Forge definition. I'll therefore sign off from these forums and wish all members and owners all the best for the future and every success in their own gaming projects.

Cheers
Malcolm

Malcolm wrote: In conclusion, it seems that a/state will probably not meet the required criteria for an 'indie' game by the Forge definition. I'll therefore sign off from these forums and wish all members and owners all the best for the future and every success in their own gaming projects.

Cheers
Malcolm

I don't get this. Because "it seems that a/state will probably not meet the required criteria", you're going to leave? Why not just wait and see if it actually meets the criteria or not?

What's with all this rash behavior online?

What the hell? Seems to me, if the creator of the game is in an equal partnership with two other creators of the game, it's an indie game by the Forge's definition. Is Arrowflight an indie game? If so, why wouldn't a/state be one as well?

ethan_greer wrote: What the hell?

I'm going to say the same as Ethan: three guys collectively developing and publishing a game without any outside interference/control/development from anyone else/another company qualifies as an indie game in my book.

What's with the belief that "indie publishers are all one-person shops"? WTF? I don't believe that's part of the Forge manifesto at all.

I think the "Indie" as a definition, and Getting Over It thread is useful here, as it points out, indie is really about creator control...whether that's one creator or three co-creators.

Finally, a comment on the art: I've seen digital art used in games before...I have to say this is the first and only time I've ever said it looks good and works for the game.

Ah, I see that some of this may be down my interpretation of Ron's initial questions about a/state and my status within the company:

As "senior developer," are you also the person who manages the finances and is responsible to the government in terms of taxes? Will you be handling the profit and payments? Do you have the final call about format, content, which printer to use, and all aspects of distribution and marketing? Does each and every decision regarding the game have to get vetted through you? Are you the principal and final call regarding each aspect of its design?

Finally, a comment on the art: I've seen digital art used in games before...I have to say this is the first and only time I've ever said it looks good and works for the game.

I suppose the question would come down to whether the three creators are also the partners in the business venture.

Oh, and I'll second the kudos on the digital art. It is purty.

I haven't done more than briefly skim the .pdf, though.

Stuart

Even by the technical ideal, if truely the people managing the business end can't tell you how to change anything, then I'd say it's independent. Also, is this the only product? Or do you have more? If it's the only product, then it's even more indie in that there are no considerations of what might happen to the "other" products if this one doesn't do well.

As Ralph pointed out lately, are you "independent" of external oversite that tells you how to make the game?

OTOH, it's borderline on the subject of actual publication. I mean, you don't have final say on that part, do you (if you do, then it's totally independent, I'd say).

The real question is whether you feel that the production of the game is "independent" of external forces that in the end might cause you to change how it ends up being created, and how it ends up getting to the reader? Which is to say, will this site help you? If we give a suggestion, can you use it, or will external forces cause you to have to ignore it?

In any case, even if by some technical description your game isn't strictly independent, that hardly means that we have nothing to offer. Bruce Baugh, even though he's far from independent, and even though he's disinterested in large chunks of the main theories here, still seems to manage to get something out of the dialog.

The question of your game's independence has no bearing on whether we want you here. I do. It only speaks to whether we can discuss that one game in it's specifics.

Just my third-party take on it. I hope you stay. :-)

Mike

Hi Malcolm,

You guys sound a lot like the Apophis Consortium (prior to about a year ago) and XIG Publishing to me, which do qualify.

One last question - regarding money management, is it a tripartite thing, in regard to managing profits and "where to go next"? It sounds like that's the case; is that right? Please feel free to answer privately if it's too personal, but if I'm right, then we can ramp this thread straight into "a/space indie game design discussion" full bore ahead.

By the way, for everyone, these are the questions I ask anyone - Knowledge of the internal workings of a given company is key. Most of you have never seen this in action and hence might think I have some sort of "preference wand" I wave. I don't.

And one last clarifier: corporate vs. non-corporate status is irrelevant. Adept Press Inc is a corporation, for instance.

Best,
Ron

One last question - regarding money management, is it a tripartite thing, in regard to managing profits and "where to go next"? It sounds like that's the case; is that right? Please feel free to answer privately if it's too personal, but if I'm right, then we can ramp this thread straight into "a/space indie game design discussion" full bore ahead.

Indie!

Design discussion commence!

Go go go!!

Best,
Ron

Thus my concerns about our presence on this forum are relieved!

I should point out that a/stateLite (our free preview) will not really reflect the current state of the game. We have gone through numerous edits and proofs, as a well as a bit of a system revision, since it was made available.

And there's also the fact that a/state is primarily about setting rather than system. I have to admit to being more of a setting rather than system design kind of guy, hence the reason we chose to utilise a simple percentile system.

Cheers
Malc

Well, consider that chargen is part of system. I'll bet that your chargen links up to the setting pretty well, no? How do you get the setting across via characters? Skills? Organizations?

Mike

Well, consider that chargen is part of system. I'll bet that your chargen links up to the setting pretty well, no? How do you get the setting across via characters? Skills? Organizations?

I think I downloaded a/state Lite a while back, because it looked cool. I can't remember if I actually read it . . . if I have, my memory needs refreshing. Well, off to go ransack my files for the document . . .

I'm talking about the lite version here.

The chargen system is interesting - overall 12% of your abilities are focused by origin and upbringing, the remaining being freely assinged. That puts it somewhere between total free form and full lifepath.

The fully free form skill choice was somewhat unexpected. I'm presuming that it's left up to the GM to rule, case by case, on skill availability then? e.g. I'm not expecting a young ghostwalker to be a physics professor.

Was the theme of unnecessarily complexity intentionally written in to the setting, or did that come about as a consequence of the genre emulation? It's a wonderful execution, as it's all restricted to the in game world, and doesn't impinge on the game mechanics. In particular, I think your choice of currency is particuarly fitting - I'd throw in crowns and guineas, but that's a personal preference I think.

The one thing I wasn't clear on was the role that the Shifted were expected to play in the game. My first take was that they were the folk lore and bogymen, but on re-reading it seems that they're a lot more, well, actual, than that. I suspect that the full version would show their purpose, but from the lite version I couldn't place them. I noted that the adventure hooks at the back or in the Tribune articles didn't seem to include them either.

Overall though, it seems quite a fresh take on the cyberpunk concept. Very definitinly Simulationist in feel, with a focus on the setting.

Stuey!

Stuart,

Sorry for taking so long to reply to your post. Work calls and all that!

The chargen system is interesting - overall 12% of your abilities are focused by origin and upbringing, the remaining being freely assinged. That puts it somewhere between total free form and full lifepath.

The fully free form skill choice was somewhat unexpected. I'm presuming that it's left up to the GM to rule, case by case, on skill availability then? e.g. I'm not expecting a young ghostwalker to be a physics professor.

Was the theme of unnecessarily complexity intentionally written in to the setting, or did that come about as a consequence of the genre emulation? It's a wonderful execution, as it's all restricted to the in game world, and doesn't impinge on the game mechanics. In particular, I think your choice of currency is particuarly fitting - I'd throw in crowns and guineas, but that's a personal preference I think.

The one thing I wasn't clear on was the role that the Shifted were expected to play in the game. My first take was that they were the folk lore and bogymen, but on re-reading it seems that they're a lot more, well, actual, than that. I suspect that the full version would show their purpose, but from the lite version I couldn't place them. I noted that the adventure hooks at the back or in the Tribune articles didn't seem to include them either.

Overall though, it seems quite a fresh take on the cyberpunk concept. Very definitinly Simulationist in feel, with a focus on the setting.