I'm making my way through the book and have finished the sorcery chapter. I had a couple of rough ideas on making the system more compatible with my homebrew and wondered what you folks thought about whether or not it would work.

The advantage of this modification to the rules is that it seems to integrate smoothly into the rules, requires very little work to add new traditions, adds flavor to differentiate the capabilities of different types of sorcerers, and gives sorcerers incentive to seek out ancient, lost, lore as it gives them access to new types of abilities. Effectively, it is just an extra thematic layer on top of the existing system.

Let me know what you think and, to those with in-game experience, how well you think it would work.

Occult Traditions

There are many ways to study the magical arts, and many ancient bodies of occult lore passed down from master to student. In order to learn magic, a sorcerer must learn one of these occult traditions. The means of learning the secrets of this lore vary from tradition to tradition, and the types of spells that can be cast are limited by the scope of these occult learnings.

Sorcerers must buy ranks in these traditions by expending SA's using the same costs as learning vagaries, and newly created characters must buy these from their proficiency pool. Each tradition has three ranks: 1 (Initiate), 2 (Practitioner), and 3 (Master). A caster must still learn vagaries and cast spells as per the rules, but a sorcerer can not cast any spell under a given tradition using vagaries at a level higher than his level within that tradition.

All spells cast under a given tradition follow the normal spell creation rules, but are thematically limited by the nature of the magical tradition. A sorcerer can learn as many traditions as he desires so long as he can meet the prerequisites specified. A sorcerer can not cast spells outside of the limitations of one of these traditions. Generic mechanical spells that only effect magic itself, such as mana, evaporate, vanquish, and the spells of zero are exempt -- all sorcerers can cast these provided they have sufficient skill with the necessary vagaries.

Example: Mortrelli is a master Necromancer but only an initiate Namarundese Serpent Eater. He knows the summoning, sculpting, and vision vagaries all at level 3. When casting necromantic spells, raising undead, speaking with spirits, possesion, etc. he can cast spells using these vagaries at full potential. When he casts Serpent Eater spells, however, such as taking the form of a serpent, spitting venom, sensing heat, turning sticks to snakes, compelling snakes, or swallowing enemies whole, he can only use his vagaries at level 1 and can not cast any spells more complicated than level 1 until he advances further in rank as a Serpent Eater.

Example: Namarundese Serpent Eater
Whereas most of the magical traditions in the West have been either derived from the lost empire of ancient Haalyr or created since it's fall, this primal tradition is thought to date back to before even the earliest days of Haalyr when hunters and gatherers painted crude idols on the walls of caves. Persecuted and threatened with instant execution without trial, this tradition is almost extinct.

In primitive rites that include the sacrifice of animals and, when possible, human captives, the Serpent Eaters worship an old serpent god, Yiggadri, who is revered no where else in the world.

Initiation: Namarundese Serpent Eaters must find a practitioner or master willing to teach them in the arts. This is no easy task, as the Serpent Eaters are highly secretive, paranoid, and dangerous. It is difficult enough to simply find a practitioner, let alone to earn his trust.

Practition: Namarundese Serpent Eaters must undergo a dangerous ritual in which they are bitten by the deadly blue cobra. The candidate is given no aid and must overcome the venom without any assistance. Should they survive the poison, the snake that bit them is killed and eaten by the initiate. The visions the Serpent Eater endures while poisoned give the candidate the insight needed to begin training into the further depths of the art.

Mastery: Masters of the art are anointed solely by the high priest of the Serpent Eaters, who has the power to unlock the greatest potential of the art within his followers. He is said to be an uncanny judge of character from whom nobody can keep secret their secret ambitions. He only grants this power to those who are worthy, powerful, dedicated, and utterly loyal. His location is known only to other masters and while few of these even have seen him directly (he hides behind a screen when interviewing candidates) wild whispers in darkened rooms claim that he may not be entirely human...

Spell Limitations: The effects of Namarundese Serpent Eater spells must be based on or effect snakes or the abilities of snakes in some manner.

Forgot to add some flavor text. :)

Maratane stepped into the foyer of Magister Srinn's mansion, his plated boots clinking against the marble floor.

"Srinn will be with you shortly. He has been expecting you..." The servant bowed slightly before quickly retreating up a flight of stairs, leaving Maratane alone in the hall.

"Expecting me?" pondered Maratane, uneasily, as his hand instinctively eased down to rest atop the pommel of his longsword. His eyes darted across the room, eyeing the shadows cast by tall pillars reaching up toward the vaulted ceiling.

Then, whisking down the stairs with a strangely smooth gait, Magister Srinn decended. His mouth parted in a wide toothy smile, his arms thrown open in a gesture of warmth. "Welcome to my home, Maratane. I am glad to see you. Can I get you anything, some wine perhaps?"

"I don't know how you knew I was coming, but I suppose you must know why I'm here," Maratane responded. The game of innuendo was not one he had ever bothered to learn. "You need not offer your false hospitality to me." Maratane drew his longsword.

The Magister recoiled and let a hiss of air escape through his lips, but the smile did not diminish. No, it only grew wider. Spreading from cheek to cheek, it did not stop until it stretched all the way from ear to ear. A sick popping sound echoed through the chamber as the jaw dislocated, exposing a massive maw with two enormous fangs. Maratane looked on in awe. He knew secrets about Srinn, which was why he was here, but he did not know this one. Nearly paralyzed with fear, he took two steps back, slowly, his face drawn up in an expression of pure horror.

A sword clattered to the cold floor...

You know, there's a new kind of trollspawn in OBAM who would really not get on well with your serpent eaters... :-)

Brian.

Did some thinking on your occult traditions.

One the whole, this will make Sorcery a much more predictable force, and reduce it's raw power slightly. From what I can see, this is perfectly workable (see many comments on the power of sorcery).

In terms of the effect on the world, sorcerers would have to be a more commonplace occurance than the default assumption, I think, in order for traditions to develop. There is also a question of how did the traditions start (the First Master problem). Neither is a particulary tricky issue.

It's worth noting that one of the primary limiters on sorcery is the rate of refresh of the sorcery pool. You may want to consider something like allowing a sorcerer extra dice equal to his rating in a tradition, that refresh at the normal rate, or something along that line. That would have the side effects that lerning multiple traditions is always good, give the player some positive return for the points spent [0], and encourage use of the traditions that the character has most experience in. This is, I think, consistant with what you're aiming to achieve, and compares with the benefits and practice of multiple styles of martial arts.

Your specification of the limitations is slightly unclear. For example, would it be feasable to destroy an object by conjuring a python to crush it to dust? Assuming so, would that be a Spell of One (Composition 3, destruction), as determined by the intended effect, or would the spell be one to conjure the python, and the intended effect be treated as a side effect? Either way has it's own benefits and drawbacks, but it's not clear to me which way you were leaning.

One caveat I do forsee, is that the sorcery system is, like the combat system, more or less a MacGuffin to bring the Spiritual Attributes to bear in the game. Whilst the traditions you mention add a lot of flavour, it should not detract from those SA's. That's a concern in running a game, rather than desiging mods but shouldn't be lost sight of, in my opinion[1].

Overall then, I think it's a workable idea, and could be a useful tool for a more predictable, more prevelent sorcery.

[0] As it stands, your implementation will be weaker in all aspects than the book. To a player, the imediate comparison will be a deterrant to playing a sorcerer, ("Your like the book, but you have to spend extra points, and arn't as good" is not a strong selling point). Whether that viewpoint is right or wrong, it's the natural first impression, and aught to be considered.

[1] See, oh, eassy by Ron and Chris at the end of sorcery chapter, and Ron's eassy "System does matter" (Articles section) for further discourse.

Hi Stuart. Thanks for the excellent feedback and advice!

Stuart DJ Purdie wrote: Did some thinking on your occult traditions.

One the whole, this will make Sorcery a much more predictable force, and reduce it's raw power slightly. From what I can see, this is perfectly workable (see many comments on the power of sorcery).

In terms of the effect on the world, sorcerers would have to be a more commonplace occurance than the default assumption, I think, in order for traditions to develop. There is also a question of how did the traditions start (the First Master problem). Neither is a particulary tricky issue.

Stuart DJ Purdie wrote: It's worth noting that one of the primary limiters on sorcery is the rate of refresh of the sorcery pool. You may want to consider something like allowing a sorcerer extra dice equal to his rating in a tradition, that refresh at the normal rate, or something along that line. That would have the side effects that lerning multiple traditions is always good, give the player some positive return for the points spent [0], and encourage use of the traditions that the character has most experience in. This is, I think, consistant with what you're aiming to achieve, and compares with the benefits and practice of multiple styles of martial arts.

[0] As it stands, your implementation will be weaker in all aspects than the book. To a player, the imediate comparison will be a deterrant to playing a sorcerer, ("Your like the book, but you have to spend extra points, and arn't as good" is not a strong selling point). Whether that viewpoint is right or wrong, it's the natural first impression, and aught to be considered.

Stuart DJ Purdie wrote: Your specification of the limitations is slightly unclear. For example, would it be feasable to destroy an object by conjuring a python to crush it to dust? Assuming so, would that be a Spell of One (Composition 3, destruction), as determined by the intended effect, or would the spell be one to conjure the python, and the intended effect be treated as a side effect? Either way has it's own benefits and drawbacks, but it's not clear to me which way you were leaning.

Stuart DJ Purdie wrote: One caveat I do forsee, is that the sorcery system is, like the combat system, more or less a MacGuffin to bring the Spiritual Attributes to bear in the game. Whilst the traditions you mention add a lot of flavour, it should not detract from those SA's. That's a concern in running a game, rather than desiging mods but shouldn't be lost sight of, in my opinion[1].

Overall then, I think it's a workable idea, and could be a useful tool for a more predictable, more prevelent sorcery.

[1] See, oh, eassy by Ron and Chris at the end of sorcery chapter, and Ron's eassy "System does matter" (Articles section) for further discourse.

You are a terrible tease...

Brian Leybourne wrote: You know, there's a new kind of trollspawn in OBAM who would really not get on well with your serpent eaters... :-)

Brian.

kenjib wrote: Do you think another 9-12 points in the spell pool for someone who knows a few traditions would upset the system?

kenjib On the nature of tradition limitations wrote: As per the standard casting rules, you create the means, rather than the ends. So, you would be conjuring a python (probably treated mechanics-wise as a spirit or demon in the form of a python).

As a small update I think that there aren't enough proficiency points during character creation for these extra costs. During character creation I'm granting free ability in one tradition at a level equivalent to the character's highest vagary. If they want any more traditions they need to buy them. So, a snake eater character who spends his starting 8 proficiencies in 3 sculpture, 2 summoning, 1 vision, 2 control, for example gets a free level three proficiency as a snake eater (which also carries certain social ramnifications as implied by the initiation requirements).

The first sorcerer character created so far worships a old pagan goddess in a culture that is now heavily monotheistic. She must keep her faith and her magical ability secret or her and her family (one of the most prominent families in the entire kingdom) will suffer great dishonor. Even her father, the family patriarch and a powerful Duke, does not know the secret. She might be executed as a heretic if discovered. This means she will have to do most magic through triggers and cover her tracks well. She has a rivalry with the three daughters of another noble family, so she'll probably be using magic to embarass them and attain social prestige. One of her SA's is to always be the center of attention. :)

This should make for some great plot dynamics. It also makes the aging effect that much more serious, because if she starts to look older than her age, it will draw dangerous suspicion. She's got to be very careful with her magic.