Topic: Dresner article series
Started by: Ron Edwards
Started on: 9/12/2001
Board: Publishing
On 9/12/2001 at 2:46am, Ron Edwards wrote:
Dresner article series
Hi everybody,
Emily Dresner is writing a series of articles for the Forge about the actual practicalities of RPG book publishing. The first of the series is available now in the Articles section of the Forge.
Emily knows EXACTLY what she's talking about, and her experience is pure gold for the would-be book publishers among us (I wish I'd benefited from her experience a year ago). That also means you can hammer her with questions, disagreements, quibbles, and comparisons, in the inimitable Forge fashion.
Discussion of the articles should commence in this forum.
Best,
Ron
[ This Message was edited by: Ron Edwards on 2001-09-12 11:28 ]
On 9/13/2001 at 4:36pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Dresner article series
All right, then, I'll start.
What is success, for an RPG designer? It is not "obvious." Dozens of meanings exist and to claim that maximizing all of them simultaneously must be THE success, is ludicrous. Claiming that some specific combination of them is "really" success is also ludicrous.
Even worse is claiming that there is some industry standard. Don't go to the "real designers" to find out what it is. Many discussions among so-called industry folks are based on switching definitions of Success in order to diminish others' accomplishments.
How shall I count the different types?
- making money in excess of production costs
- sustaining the product through some particular time scale
- establishing a product line of some particular size
- establishing a print run of some particular size
- being carried by so many distributors, or having so many copies in distribution
- making enough money to quit other full-time work
- being paid above some particular dollar value by others
- getting your product into foreign markets
- receiving awards of one or another kind, from one or another designated body of individuals
- being hired by some particular company (as opposed to another)
- hiring some particular individual
- being bought or otherwise-associated with a larger game company
- receiving specific sorts of feedback and attention from end users
- having more copies in print/distribution than some other company (or all other companies)
- and probably a few more that I'll think of later
As you can see, it's a mess. Some of these are specific to work-for-hire as opposed to creator-ownership, some of them are magnitude-based as opposed to return-based, and some of them are relative to other companies as opposed to within-company.
My reaction to Emily's first article is this: KNOW WHAT SUCCESS IS FOR YOU, AND IGNORE ALL OTHERS' EVALUATIONS OF YOUR WORK BASED ON OTHER VERSIONS OF SUCCESS.
Comments?
Best,
Ron
On 9/13/2001 at 5:57pm, Mytholder wrote:
RE: Dresner article series
My initial reaction? Who the hell counts "foreign markets" as a sign of accomplishment? Yeah, it's nice, but hardly necessary.
I think some level of finacial reward...or certain some acknowledgement...is a required part of the process. Art needs an audience, and all that.
On 9/13/2001 at 6:12pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Dresner article series
Hi,
I included the foreign-markets item on the list because it is an issue to some publishers.
I'd like to concentrate on the switching-issues tactic: "Oh, you're succesful in terms of X and Y? Ummm ... ha! You're not successful in terms of Z! You loser!" Of course, if you're doing Z fine too, the person can just rummage further in the success-item bag, until they find something you're not doing.
My real point is that one's precise definition of success - one or more of the things I listed, or of things like them - is going to have to (1) be known in the first place, and (2) remain individualized.
Game designers at the Forge! Know what you think success means. Do not waver in the face of "switch-hitting" criticism.
If anyone is interested, my criteria are as follows:
- Sorcerer is a successful role-playing game if people actually play it.
- It is a successful product if I receive more money than I put into it.
- Adept Press is a successful company insofar as the first two things are sustained over a significant time.
You might be surprised at how many so-called industry people immediately scoff at the fact that Adept Press is not my full-time job. "Oh, that's not success, then." More switch-hitting. Such reactions and comments CANNOT be taken seriously.
Best,
Ron
[ This Message was edited by: Ron Edwards on 2001-09-13 18:37 ]
On 9/13/2001 at 7:15pm, ephealy wrote:
RE: Dresner article series
Ron Edwards wrote:
You might be surprised at how many so-called industry people immediately scoff at the fact that Adept Press is not my full-time job. "Oh, that's not success, then." More switch-hitting. Such reactions and comments CANNOT be taken seriously.
Those who are new to the industry side of this hobby might want to take a few moments to check and see just how many companies are staffed by full-time employees. If you do, you'll find that the vast majority of the companies who produce the games you purchase and/or play are run by people who have real jobs to support themselves.
When Alex, George and I started Eden Studios in 1997, all of us had day jobs. Alex was a lawyer, George owned a store and I worked for Deloitte & Touche. Even today, with all the success that Eden has had, it still is not staffed by full-time employees. Even with that fact, Eden is probably one of the middle tier publishers out there.
Sure, we all had our dreams of becoming full-time self-employed industry professionals, but reality has a way of changing the best laid plans. George went on to work for LUG, WotC and then Decipher. Alex spent a short full-time stint on Eden, but (I believe) is back doing law work to supplement his income. As for me? I never left the real world.
Would I do it again? Sure. It was worth every lost hour of sleep, every disappointment and delay. As long as you are realistic about what you're getting into, you should enjoy the trip whatever happens. Just remember to be realistic.
The best thing I found in Emily's article was the sense that you should "define success" before you make the decision to go ahead with a commercial publication of your game. This is probably good advice for all areas of your life, not just gaming. If you know what you're looking for, you won't be disappointed when your game doesn't become the next L5R or V:tM.
Sandy Antunes, of RPGnet, has said in the past that you generally need one of two things in order to start a full-time game publishing house from scratch: a lot of your own money (read independently wealthy), or a spouse with a great job and a lot of patience... Many people should take that to heart.
_________________
EP Healy
Hephaestus' Forge
[ This Message was edited by: ephealy on 2001-09-13 15:17 ]
On 9/13/2001 at 8:30pm, Zak Arntson wrote:
RE: Dresner article series
I also think designers should be prepared to change their own measure of Success. Here's how I'm measuring my own success:
Currently & Near Future:
- People respond favorably on the Forge.
Next Step:
- Own dedicated domain.
- Get good reviews on, say, rpg.net.
- People respond favorably on other forums.
Next Step:
- Minimal profit, eventually paying for web-host costs.
- Legitimate fanbase (i.e., > 5 people :)
Final Step:
- Enough profit to support small side company.
On 9/14/2001 at 3:27am, Judas wrote:
RE: Dresner article series
Hello,
I have had a set of goals from the beginning for my own game:
The first is to have people play and enjoy the game of course, the more the better. Preferably at least one thousand... if 300 units are sold, and an average group has 4 players, that would be good.
Second, to add income above and beyond living expenses. I do not see an RPG as a ticket to a "big" company job, or to replace my full-time income. I see the business as a way to generate side income in an enjoyable way. Much the way a painter would sell a few paintings at a show a couple times a year, or a mechanic who enjoys fiddling with cars makes some money on side jobs. Don't misunderstand, I approach it as a business... it must make money. I have formed an LLC, registered a domain, hired artists, etc. and want the game to be successful and lasting. But I want to have FUN making the money. The money will not be used for living expenses, however. It will be put aside for the future, and whatever it holds.
Third, I want the RPG to assist in drawing customers to our other products, which are far more profitable. Many people overlook the common business practice of selling one item at low profit, but having it draw a specific target audience to products which may also be enjoyed by that audience.
If the game is played by a thousand people, creates a profit, and causes an increase in sales of other products, it is "successful" to me.
Judas I. Zeh
[ This Message was edited by: Judas on 2001-09-14 18:01 ]