Topic: Paying the layout guy -- by the project or on retainer?
Started by: Michael Hopcroft
Started on: 5/19/2003
Board: Publishing
On 5/19/2003 at 4:50am, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
Paying the layout guy -- by the project or on retainer?
Right now most of the money I make at Seraphim guard is going sttraight into the pkcet of the layout guy. There's been a dry spell between products, and now that a flurry of proeduct is being prepared I need to pay for layout on a regular basis. Inf ace, I have a back bill that I'm paying off as money comes in.
Nornmally, when I have a day job (which i will again in about six weeks0, I'll pur money from my paychecks into the company and use it to pay some of the expenses. But I've been without a day job for five months so I've falllen behind on my payemnts to the layout guy.
Which brings me to the topic. Is it better to keep my layout guy on retainer -- pay him a set amount per month for whatever work scomes his way -- or pay him by the project? Right now I'm paying him by the project, but with so many products coming up I'm wondering if it would be easier just to pay a monthly fee and keep him "on call" so that when i need layout done he'll be available. And if I can pay him out of my own pocket rather than my company;s direct earnings, I might hsave money for things like POD fees and the like.
Given that i really don;t have the training to do good layout myself, which is the better solution if I want to produce product on a much more regular basis than I've done previously and still keep the layout guy paid and happy?
On 5/19/2003 at 1:49pm, Matt Snyder wrote:
RE: Paying the layout guy -- by the project or on retainer?
As as layout guy who HASN'T been paid for work, you might think the retainer idea is a good one. It is not, from my perspective. When doing freelance work, I want fair compensation for the work I'm expected to do. This means when I'm expected to do a significant amount and "depth" of work, I expect to get paid adequately. And reasonably promptly. Getting paid at all seems to be a problem with some folks.
Being "on call" (again, from my perspective") is a bad idea, not the least because it doesn't let him properly manage his schedule. If you come at hime with a huge project, due in a couple weeks or a month, he may have other huge projects going on. Stress city.
Pay by the project, but for God's sake pay. And do it when you say you will.
On 5/19/2003 at 4:13pm, Dav wrote:
RE: Paying the layout guy -- by the project or on retainer?
Pay by the project. I doubt most layout people will consider going on retainer... and besides, he'll get irritated if you put him on retainer for heavy periods, then back to by the project for dry spells.
Without prying into details, do you scale your project pricing by the page, or just a single fee per product? I would definitely have the layout go somewhere along the lines of $250 + $1 per page for layout (unless the layout person is also designing borders, charts, and other minor visual tweaks, then pay another $75 per "piece". Now, for smaller products, you may want to skip going with the professional layout guy. I know you say you don't have any ability to do this, but here is what you do: look at other stuff that is done up correctly, and then completely steal that format. Seriously, it works. If the layout is tapping you, then you should maybe seriously slow down your production rate... how will you print. if the layout is getting burdensome (or is this .pdf stuff? If it is, don't have a layout person anyway, you can do that on your own just playing around).
Maybe you should talk to Gareth about retaining his services, as I'm certain he could help you scale a less punishing scope for your business.
Dav
On 5/19/2003 at 11:25pm, Adam wrote:
RE: Paying the layout guy -- by the project or on retainer?
Definately not retainer. If you want me at your beck and call, I need to be making enough to live on from it, or the projects need to be short and simple enoughenough that they can be done in a few evenings.
Dav wrote: Without prying into details, do you scale your project pricing by the page, or just a single fee per product? I would definitely have the layout go somewhere along the lines of $250 + $1 per page for layout (unless the layout person is also designing borders, charts, and other minor visual tweaks, then pay another $75 per "piece".
It's pretty rare for the graphics design guy not to do that sort of thing, unless he's inheriting a project or working within an already established line. However, that sort of stuff is usually considered part of the regular workload, unless the designer is expected to do a huge amount of work on it. If you're doing border or background elements that amount to /art/ as opposed to, well, "elements", then you deserve to be paid extra for them.
Now, for smaller products, you may want to skip going with the professional layout guy. I know you say you don't have any ability to do this, but here is what you do: look at other stuff that is done up correctly, and then completely steal that format. Seriously, it works.
For products of the layout complexity of HeartQuest, I'd agree that just about anyone with a working knowledge of Quark or InDesign could do the layout.
Best,
Adam
On 5/20/2003 at 12:20am, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
RE: Paying the layout guy -- by the project or on retainer?
Adam wrote: For products of the layout complexity of HeartQuest, I'd agree that just about anyone with a working knowledge of Quark or InDesign could do the layout.
I don;t know how I should feel about that statement. On one hand I wish it were that simple, but on the other, oh my wounded pride....
The reason the subject came up in the first place is that I have a regular layout guy who does other work. he's trained for three years to do graphic design work and earns his living as a combination freelancer and company man (just having graduated, he had toruble finding a day job until recently0. I think he does what he does for me as much as a favor as for the money, although he does value the money. He ucurently charges based on the size of the project.
The general consensus seems to eb that paying him a monthly retainer would be a bad idea, so I don;t think i'll pursue it. Then again, I do have apretty heavy production schedule after July, with two manuscripts due on July 1 from their authors. And I've been working hard on some other projects as well.
If I could do my own layout work, I'd seriously consider it. But that's not possible and it took my layout guy about three years to learn his trade in school. I'm pretty confident he knows what he's doing. And if his layouts aren;t complicated, so much the better for the kind of projects I produce.