Hi all,

A remarkably simple question here, and one I imagine there is a very simple answer to.

Let's say I have a 13 dice combat pool, my opponent has a 12 dice combat pool. I strike first having initiative.

Why shouldn't I put all 13 dice into attack leaving nothing for parrying etc.?

If he splits his pool he'll probably only have six or seven dice defending against my 13. I'll hit and most likely take him out before he even gets to strike at me.

Except that can't be right and I strongly suspect I've either misread this element of the rules or misunderstood it. Anyone care to enlighten me?

I think if he makes a parry with 9-10 dice he should have a good probability of success and in the second exchange you're dead meat cause you haven't dice left.

Grey Mouser

It also depends a lot on the weapons and armor of your opponent and your self. If your opponent is well armored and has good defensive weapons, he has a good chance of not being hurt. Then you're in trouble, unless your in full plate....in which case I say hack away....

Hi Max,

Check out the All dice on offense! thread for lots o' discussion about this issue.

Best,
Ron

Ron Edwards wrote: Hi Max,

Check out the All dice on offense! thread for lots o' discussion about this issue.

Best,
Ron

Hi Max,

Its definitely a tempting manuever, for sure. There's a couple of things that stop it from being the "all the time, best move"...

-Friends, if he's got'em, you might be in for a surprise on the second exchange!
-Full evasion! If he can evade, he might buy time until friends come, or he can lead you to bad terrain and get you to use up some of your pool.
-Counter! If he's close or higher than you in CP, this option opens up, and that means if he successfully counters, he gets 13 dice to hit you back with!

I'm sure there's plenty more, but those few come immediately to mind.

Chris

Yeah. I do this all the time. One of the problemshowever is that you don't know how many dice he's got, even if you're a few exchanges in. I always try to not use a few dice every round to deceive my opponent into thinking I have, say, 12 dice when I've really got 15.

Jake

Yesterday, I had a rather similar situation and found out that it can become rather messy for the attacker when the defender uses a counter with all dice (+all luck SP, if available). Sure you loose two dice for activation and have to trust your luck in parrying the attack, but if you manage to parry, all the attacker's successes suddenly become dice for your next attack while he has none left to counter it. Too late does the attacker realise then that too much momentum has its own risks, and if he survives to fight another day he will be more ware of overcomitting himself.

Counter is a killer, I hadn't thought that through properly.

One guy gets lucky with a counter and it's sayonara if you employ this technique regularly.

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

The counter is by far my favorite technique in TROS.

Jake

Counters are very good. One of my players uses them quite a lot.

The only time i haven't seen a counter really work well is when a defending character puts a pile of dice into the maneuver, succeeds with a bunch and his attacking opponent only achieves one or two successes.

Jake Norwood wrote: The counter is by far my favorite technique in TROS.

Jake

Salamander wrote:

German School, eh Jake?

One of the problemshowever is that you don't know how many dice he's got, even if you're a few exchanges in.

Difficult? Not at all. I use a screen or keep the bowl behind the table, but I only do this if the fight is important or if I have something up my sleeve (or I want the players thinking I do). Then just the fact that it's hidden has them playing careful.

Jake

Tywin,

Let me clarify that Jake's not saying that he doesn't tell the players how many dice the NPC's are rolling at any point, just that he wont let them see the actual pool, so they can never be sure that the NPC isn't holding back.

It's a really useful tactic - I often hold back a few dice that I do not use for the first couple of rounds of combat. Lets say I have a CP of 14. I'll only spend 11 every round. After a few rounds, the opponent thinks I have 11 dice in my pool, and plays appropriately. When I suddenly pull three extra dice out, he's not expecting it and the advantage swings very much to me.

Brian.

What do you guys think of this trick?

Describe your character limping to the other combatant, apparently from fighting someone else, or running around on the battlefield. Then say that your pool is only 9 because of the wound, and only use that much. Defend like like you're desperate until the opponent throws a full attack with all his dice (or close enough). Then reveal that you've been faking, unleash a huge counter with your full 15 die pool, and cut him down as he stumbles by.

The ref might require an acting roll to pull it off. Countered by style analysis or something. :-)

Would that work?

BTW, I vote that we call the above method described by Brian the Inigo/Westly Left Handed Maneuver.

Mike

What do you guys think of this trick?

Describe your character limping to the other combatant. Then say that your pool is only 9 because of the wound, and only use that much. Defend like like you're desperate until the opponent throws a full attack with all his dice (or close enough). Then reveal that you've been faking, unleash a huge counter with your full 15 die pool, and cut him down as he stumbles by.

The ref might require an acting roll to pull it off. Countered by style analysis or something. :-)

Would that work?

Mike

I thought it sounded workable the first time, Mike. Jeez, some people are SO impatient.

::grins::

Whoops. That's weird. How'd the edited version end up first, and alongside the other? Huh.

Well, anyhow, glad it seems workable. :-)

Mike

In one of the games I was playing in, there was a character who had a huge toughness, armour, and an exceptional weapon and proficiences. At times he would chuck his entire pool plus SA's on a target leaving himself open. For awhile it worked great until he faced a particularly mean opponent that we all didn't expect. The character ended up with a level 4 wound and was 1 health point away from death when it was all over.

I always leave myself a few dice, just in case after that.

Jake Norwood wrote: The counter is by far my favorite technique in TROS.

Jake

In our first 'real' gaming session on Monday we had a few tricky maneuvers. Oh boy was the fight between a PC swordsmaster and a Gelurean lieutenant exciting! Both used cut&thrust style.

The PC used a counter, and with bad luck just barely managed to parry. Then on the next round or so the player decided to do a simultaneous block/strike, with oodles of dice on defence and only three on offence (I didn't remember to enforce the ratio), trying for the weapon arm for +1 die. The lieutenant made a good attack roll with 7 dice (like 6 successes) and the PC the most unlucky roll ever, luckily ending up with only a scratch on his upper arm. So he got his simultaneous attack, no successes! Doh, had I wanted to totally kill the unlucky PC, I'd thrust him in the gut but decided to slash at upper legs, delivering a level 3 wound.. This ended the battle since the lieutenant didn't press on, and the PC got his lesson.

Marvelous duel, tactical choices being very important but as seen, luck also plays significant part :)

Notice the attack/attack resolution. Round x+2, first exchange: NPC attacks with 7 dice, PC simu block/strikes with all. NPC hits (barely), PC fails. NPC has some dice left, so on the next exchange he uses them, no dice left for defence..