Devarre sighed inside. He'd warned Theral that he aught not to get too friendly with that serving wench. Forseeing what was about to occur, he drew his blade and dagger. A few blows in, he caught sight of a third man closing on Theral. Reversing the dagger in his off hand, he parried the overeager brother infront of him and ...

nothing more happens for quite a while, except much reading of the book, and head scratching. Now, clearly Devarre is at a penelty for use of his off hand - that's a side point.

How is the interaction of the sword fighting mechanics and the missile weapon mechanics handled in this case? What I'm thinking is that trying to do both at once makes both less effective than normal, but how to handle that mechanically.

In all honesty, it's more of a swashbuckling thing, than the default grittyness of TRoS, but it's also relevent with modern weapons, or superhero style blaster powers.

There are several methods of handling it, so I'm looking for some vaguely offical angle on it. Or one from someone whose got some relevent experience, unlike me.

Stuey, thinking about TRoS supers stuff.

That's a very good question.

You could argue that one should track MP seperate from CP in this case, with the Wit-per-round refresh etc. That would be a valid, if cludgy answer. I did it differently though:

When I was writing one of the entries for Of Beasts and Men, I came across this very question - how to do a creature who can whip his spiky scorpion-like tail about and fling some of the spikes toward an opponent while engaging others in melee (if you have not guessed already, it's a Manticore, for the Heraldic Creatures section of the book).

I thought about it for a while, and decided that tracking MP seperately was too much bookwork, so I ruled that the manticore can simply split some of its CP off to flick a spike at a non-melee opponent while it's engaged in melee (outside of melee it uses it's MP as usual). I would do humans flicking knives in the same manner.

This may seem like a huge advantage (not needing to refresh MP) but it's not really - those CP you are splitting off are CP that you wont be using for attacking or - more importantly - defending this round. Additionally, I would make the character make a terrain roll to draw the knife while engaged (failure means losing half CP for the round as usual) and probably require 1 CP activation cost to actually throw it.

So:
round one: terrain roll (variable CP cost) to draw the knife without being spitted (and you have to draw it while defending, not while attacking).
Round two: throw the knife with X CP/MP for a cost of X+1 CP.

How does that sound? Anyway, that's how the Manticore does it (except he doesn't have to "draw" his spikes before he can fling them).

Brian.

As an on the fly ruling, I would allow the PC to spend an activation cost (probably 1 cp), and then use dice from his CP to throw the dagger. Note: this would use at most their Aim in dice.

Note 2: I let pcs refresh their MP at 1.5 times their wit per round instead of just their wit in dice per round. It speeds up missile combat enough to make it a little more effective vs determined opponents, while not making it ridiculously fast.

I would give them the unused percentage of their current pool in the pool they wish to use.

Jake

I would give him his MP minus the dice he has already spent. It's simple but really don't know if it could work. By the way also the sorcery pool could be treated in the same manner.

Grey Mouser

Well, the two guys I play with most often love throwing knives, so this comes up alot. If it happens in the middle of combat with someone we usually just treat it as a toss manuver... otherwise it happens while the person's in between his own fights and it's just a MP attack.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

I think I personally like gmouser's solution. It's simple, effective and rather elegant. Here's an example of how I see it working..

Tiberius is ambushed in his room, and manages to grab up his sword and crossbow before the enemy closes. He had been hoping to shoot his attacker across the bed, but the attacker got too close before he could level the crossbow. The attacker drops red, to Tiberius' White, and Tiberius spends 8 (of his 13) CP to defend. He has the initiative now and attacks, using the last 5 of his dice. The attacker evades, but leaves Tiberius with the initiative. Tiberius makes a terrain roll and dives across the bed, using 5 of his CP to do so. Once across, he points and shoots the crossbow (already loaded, because Tiberius is a paranoid sort). He gets the last 3 dice in his MP (total 8, minus the five spent from his CP for the terrain roll) to fire.

This is really rough, because again the books are in the car, as is Tiberius' character sheet. But it's a basic example of how I see it working.

Ok, some good answears there.

To dot some i's, should probably cap the max MP dice at Wits, otherwise you can end up with more MP dice charged up in a second when in a swordfight, than when focusing on the throw alone - somewhat counterintuitive.

Jake, you didn't mention any particular penalty for trying two things at once - I'm guessing your thinking is standard multiple opponents rules, that the loss of CP in a sword fight is penalty enough?

Hey Stuart, the way I'd avoid MP dice being overblown is to remember the set-up for weapons.. You've got to draw the knife, cock back your arm... etc.

Hmm, looks like I garbled what I ment with that.

Normally, once preped, (already darwn and cocked), MP fills at the rate of Wit per second. Just because your in a swordfight too is no reason that the MP should fill any faster than that. I can't see how how drawing and cocking would address that issue.

With that proviso in place, I can't see any reason for not refreshing the MP from CP over a couple of exchanges. You'd be a bit desperate to try it, and I'd rule that getting hit, or making an attack would empty it [0]. Still, it's one dramatic way to deal with your nemisis running away, and leaving henchmen to slow you down.

Stuey!

[0] Attack with the sword that is. Clearly throwing the knife would also empty it.

Reversing the dagger in his off hand, he parried the overeager brother infront of him and ...

Stuart DJ Purdie wrote: Normally, once preped, (already darwn and cocked), MP fills at the rate of Wit per second. Just because your in a swordfight too is no reason that the MP should fill any faster than that. I can't see how how drawing and cocking would address that issue.

Overall, I still say that just taking dice out of CP for the toss is the easiest solution.

I notice you conveniently picked easy CP:MP ratios. :-) What happens when it's 4:9 or 11:7, etc. Hard to work how many dice gives how many dice in that situation - too much hassle IMO, although I do understand your point.

Also, I think your math is a little off. If Alice has 12:8 MP:CP then 2CP gives her 3MP, not 5.

But as I say, I see your point. I just think it's overly complex. Letting them spend CP as I suggested might disadvantage the knife thrower, but if you're that focused on ranged combat then you *should* be disadvantaged in melee. The fact that you're not so good at melee is why you can't get it together enough to make a really decent knife throw - you're being distracted by trying to keep the other guy from intorducting you to your own intestines.

Brian.

Brian Leybourne wrote: Also, I think your math is a little off. If Alice has 12:8 MP:CP then 2CP gives her 3MP, not 5.

Drawing and throwing a dagger or throwing knife while engaged in a melee is pretty much akin to commiting suicide. I understand that the discussion is more biased to a theatrical bent, but I don't think it would be a safe thing to try in a grittier game. I for one would force the players to use the refresh rate. While refreshing the guy right in front of them will have the perfect opportunity to paste them but good. However, if you use it immediately prior to entering melee, you have a distinct chance of messing with the other guy...

That's a valid point Salamander; I tend to play my games a tiny bit more theatrical, perhaps. Nothing wrong with that of course, each to their own.

Brian.