Topic: some info on TROS shields
Started by: gmouser
Started on: 5/22/2003
Board: The Riddle of Steel
On 5/22/2003 at 10:40am, gmouser wrote:
some info on TROS shields
Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting something:
1) Buckler: a small, usually circular, hand held shield not strapped to the forearm (that is a target or targa shield, uh?)
2) Round shield: well, just a round shield about 20''-24'' in diameter
3) Heater shield: a triangular shaped shield or a reduced size kite shield about 22''-28'' long
4) kite shield: the classical kite shield like this: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/MedNormK.jpg
Grey Mouser
On 5/22/2003 at 1:04pm, Durgil wrote:
RE: some info on TROS shields
That looks right to me, just don't forget that the kite shield and even some heaters (knight shields) had a leather strap that went around the neck or around the neck and shoulder of the arm that it was on.
On 5/22/2003 at 3:45pm, Anthony I wrote:
Re: some info on TROS shields
gmouser wrote: Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting something:
1) Buckler: a small, usually circular, hand held shield not strapped to the forearm (that is a target or targa shield, uh?)
The targa/target/targe is just another name for shield, and one that comes out of antiquity-it appears to be old norse/germanic in origin, then used by the French [Franks] and later adopted by the English. It means any type of small, light shield. Di Grassi shows the targa to be a square medium sized shield gripped in the center (much like a buckler), Marozzo shows the targa to be a much smaller shield shaped more like a roof tile, but also used one handed. I'd say trying to reduce targa/target/targe to anything other than a generic term for a light shield will only work if you are also specifying a specific time and place, other wise the term is too broad.
On 5/22/2003 at 7:32pm, sirjaguar wrote:
RE: some info on TROS shields
I always thought a heater was a large, curved rectangular shield, as opposed to being tapered. Maybe this is just because that's the way they were depicted in UO. :)
On 5/22/2003 at 8:07pm, Wolfen wrote:
RE: some info on TROS shields
UO's Heaters are totally wrong. I don't recall the exact name of that sort of shield, but a heater is your classical "shield" shape, as seen with coats of arms; ie, flat on the top, rounded down to a point on the bottom.
On 5/23/2003 at 8:03am, gmouser wrote:
RE: some info on TROS shields
thank you for your answers.
Now I'm wondering why in TROS the 'roman' rectangular large shield isn't reported ); perhaps the rectangular one was a kind of shield not much used in the Middle Age, or it was less manoeuvrable, or just a matter of taste.... (rounded things are prettier, you know.... ;-)))) )
Sorry for all these questioning, but I want to make use of the richness of this forum, since some of you have a great knowledge of the real historical period and know TROS too... an explosive mixture!
Grey Mouser
On 5/23/2003 at 11:20am, Salamander wrote:
RE: some info on TROS shields
The Roman Great Shield, or Scutum I believe was its official name, came out of use as the armour and weapons increased in effectiveness. As with many things, as the armour improved, the shields became smaller and/or more mobile. Of course we cannot discount the fact that the formation tactics of the Occidental Romans fell by the wayside as the Germaninc victors danced on their graves. Clearly defined formation tactics would not be seen in any appreciable degree again until the 1300's with the Swiss & German Mercenaries and the Italian Condotierre of the 1400s. Then they would be around until the advent of modern warfare (ca. 1936).
Just a theory. Anybody more learned is welcome to correct me.
On 5/23/2003 at 1:00pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: some info on TROS shields
Actually Sal, I think you're mixxing several different centuries of warfare together into "roman". Not an uncommon mistake. The armies of the late Roman Empire bore scant resemblance to the disciplined legions of citizen solidiers who had carved the empire. In fact, in terms of numbers most of the troops in the legions of the late empire were as ethnically germanic as the barbarians they opposed.
On 5/23/2003 at 1:23pm, Salamander wrote:
RE: some info on TROS shields
Valamir wrote: Actually Sal, I think you're mixxing several different centuries of warfare together into "roman". Not an uncommon mistake. The armies of the late Roman Empire bore scant resemblance to the disciplined legions of citizen solidiers who had carved the empire. In fact, in terms of numbers most of the troops in the legions of the late empire were as ethnically germanic as the barbarians they opposed.
Good point. However I still believe that the scutum did fall by the way side due to a combination of the socio-political and technological upheaval of the time.