Hi Everyone,

Ron asked me to get things together for the booth this year at Gen Con and I wanted to post about how the plans are going so far. The first priority was the banner. A local place can create a 3' by 6' (standard conference size) vinyl banner with the bangs and whistles for $118 with tax. I also inquired about 2” by 2” stickers with the forge logo and the web address, but I am still waiting for a quote. The banner is a definite purchase, but I wanted some opinions on the sticker idea. I will have to start some fund raising for the banner and the stickers if there is a good vibe about them.

I did a search thru the forum, wrote down all the ideas that people had and thought about what was reasonable and doable. Since the current budget is a whopping $0, I had to get realistic about what could be done. I needed to combine some of the things people requested so that there is not a very cluttered or confusing Forge Booth. So I am proposing that we have a game menu, author photo and game demo signage combination. My plan is to have 11x14 sheets of paper with the game logo across majority of the page, with a sub title or slogan below it. In an upper corner the author’s photo and name. Below this could be a list of other people who could run a demo game. (The game designers have the option of putting this together themselves or I will be happy to put it together if they send me the info.) Since we’ll know before hand how many game tables we’ll have, I can print out signs to place under the game sign that will say something like “Demo Game - Table 3”. Onto these game signs, authors can also write notes saying if they went to lunch or whatever. Ralph, Paul and I are working to come up with a floor plan and a display rack.

-Danielle

Well, the banner is a necessity, although pricy. I trust it will be something generic enough that it can be reused from year to year? I’ll chip in a few bucks towards it.

As for stickers … freebies to give away with purchase are always nice, if they’re cheap enough. Of course, I find that I come home from GenCon with far more small, flat things (flyers, pamphlets, business cards, character sheets,etc.) than I ever look at again … so the might get lost in the shuffle. I know Luke Crane (abzu) has gone the sticker route, so he can probably comment on their effectiveness and what a good price is.

The 11” x 14” sign for each game is good. Since demos are only 20-30 minutes, I don’t know if identifying what game is currently playing at what table is all that vital. But then again, if things get packed, people could get lost in the shuffle.

I’m not sure if this is the place to bring it up, but in the previous thread, Ron said there would be “an explicit policy of promotion and sales for demo people.” On that thread, we thrashed out that everyone should be knowledgable enough about everyone else’s products to at least farm interested parties in the right direction (which, as an aside, means we should have a final list of who is selling what soon, right? Wasn’t the deadline supposed to be June 1?) However, what kind of guidelines will there be for: A) distribution of freebies? Will they be shoved in the bag with every purchase, put on a rack to be picked up by those interested, or what? Heck, will we have bags? B) What about running demoes of Indie games that aren’t for sale at the booth? I know Ron had stuff like Orkworld and 21 other fine games prepped to go last year, and didn’t Mike Holmes run Sorcerer & Space (which still isn’t available)? Will this kind of thing be allowed? C) Who will actually handle the exchange of money? Ron mentioned a common cash box, but does that mean one cashier or everyone makes their own change from the common box? D) Are there guidelines for how the rest of us should encourage sales of Adept Press, Arc Dream, & Driftwood, since they’re paying a lot more for the booth than any of us?

Just worry-warting.

Well, the banner is a necessity, although pricy. I trust it will be something generic enough that it can be reused from year to year? I’ll chip in a few bucks towards it.

As for stickers … freebies to give away with purchase are always nice, if they’re cheap enough. Of course, I find that I come home from GenCon with far more small, flat things (flyers, pamphlets, business cards, character sheets,etc.) than I ever look at again … so the might get lost in the shuffle.

The 11” x 14” sign for each game is good. Since demos are only 20-30 minutes, I don’t know if identifying what game is currently playing at what table is all that vital. But then again, if things get packed, people could get lost in the shuffle.

Who will actually handle the exchange of money? Ron mentioned a common cash box, but does that mean one cashier or everyone makes their own change from the common box?

Hey Matt,

I'm not sure there's been a final determination about the booth having a single point-of-sale. Last year, Adept Press and Key20 were the two primary sponsors of the booth, and each had their own point-of-sale. And then there was the point-of-sale for everyone else (Dust Devils, Kayfabe, Riddle of Steel, Universalis, etc.), which was an envelope in Jake Norwood's back pocket. I think everyone recognizes that with three primary sponsors this year, that the booth cannot support four separate points-of-sale. It seems that a single point of sale is the ideal solution if it can be made to work. What Ralph, as financial manager, and Danielle, as booth manager, are trying to work out is a logistical arrangement of furniture and display that facilitates dynamic actual play in the booth, presents product in such a way that designers can "hold court" around it and interact with customers, and allows for customers to purchase product directly from designers.

Ralph can maybe provide more detail, but my understanding of the current conversation is that a designer who's making a sale to a customer will be able to walk into the point-of-sale and be assisted by someone there in making change from the cashbox and in filling out the receipt for the customer.

As far as bags are concerned, I've got a shload of plastic bags from local grocery stores that I could bring. I'm not sure what I think about the stickers idea. I guess I need to hear how much they cost before forming an opinion. But I think people tend to at least keep stickers when they get them and that unless a bag is real nice, which we probably can't afford, people just throw them away. Anyway, Danielle is just pricing out the stickers so we can have a conversation about the goal of disseminating the Forge URL. And maybe the outcome of that will be that we just end up going with flyers.

Paul

Thanks for the great feed back, to answer a few questions:

1) the banner will be general, it will have the logo, the url and a statement, either "the Home of Creator-Owned and Published RPG's" or "The Internet Home for Independent Role-Playing Games". I assume it will be used every year and perhaps in Gen Con SoCal.

2) the display we are looking into will have three sides. Right now we are thinking that two sides would face out and have games for sale while the third can have freebies.

3) still figuring out the money situation but I will nod to Ralph who is the finance guy.

4) as far as guidelines for the sale of other games, we haven't explored that topic yet, but now that it's out there I'll look into it.

As soon as the guy calls me with the sticker quote I'll post it. Paul also offered to put an example of the 11x14 sign up on his website so everyone can get an idea about it. AND we are still working on the layout of the booth and the areas for sale, nothing has been finalized since we haven't heard from the other publishing companies.

I'll try to keep everyone up to date.

Any news on the coffee thing? Is that problematic with liscencing or anything?

Is the motif still Jazz Coffee House?

Mike

Regarding the "cashier" arrangements. This is an important piece to the overall layout of the booth.

In My Ideal World there would be 1 and only 1 point of sale where actual money was being exchanged. This point would be staffed at all times using an actual cash box and carbon copy reciepts so that every sale and dollar amount is recorded. We also need a second method that can be used as a double check to make sure everyone's sales track correctly.

It is my understanding, however, that Ron desires a seperate point of sale solely for Adept Press. IMO this makes things overly complicated, but I'm not footing the major cost for the booth, so that ain't my call to make.

That leaves us with 2 points of sale. 1 for Adept Press and 1 for everybody else. However, this then depends on the other major sponsors and whether THEY will want seperate points of sale also. Given the limited amount of space in the booth, clearly 3 or 4+ places to take money is not only a huge waste of space, but largely confusing to potential customers also.

So in My Second Choice arrangement there would be 2 points of sale, either:
1) 1 for Adept Press and 1 for everyone else, or
2) 1 for all of the major sponsers and 1 for all of the smaller press folks (my preference).

Hi there,

Just some random notions out there ...

1. Points of sale for each of the major sponsors seems like a real chaos factor. I can't see any way around it at this point. Part of the reason is, bluntly, that people really want to buy the game from The Guy, meaning the person who publishes it. It's a tangible and highly significant desire in the case of Sorcerer; if we go with a single point of purchase, I anticipate anywhere up to 50% loss of my sales. Can't afford that, given what I lay out for the booth. I'm open to suggestions.

2. The Jazz Coffee House model should remain the ideal, especially as opposed to the Hysterical Flea Market. This is a big deal for everyone selling a game there. However, unfortunately, I can't see any way for us actually to have coffee available at the booth without spending huge amounts of money.

3. I really think we need bags for purchases. Not only did a lot of customers expect them last year, but they provide a way for us to include all the promo handouts. I think that some pre-con collating of "the bag wad" is definitely going to be a priority.

Best,
Ron

Hey Ron,

Points of sale for each of the major sponsors...I can't see any way around it at this point. Part of the reason is, bluntly, that people really want to buy the game from The Guy, meaning the person who publishes it. It's a tangible and highly significant desire in the case of Sorcerer; if we go with a single point of purchase, I anticipate anywhere up to 50% loss of my sales. Can't afford that, given what I lay out for the booth. I'm open to suggestions.

Picture a three-sided display near the leading edge of the booth. Game books are all face-out on it, and prices are in large letters near each of the game books. It says "Indie RPGs" on the top of each side. Game designers hang out nearby, engaging with passers-by and talking up their games. They wear badges that say, "Ask me about Sorcerer," or whatever games they're knowledgeable about. Closing a deal is walking over with a customer through the area of active play to the point-of-sale, where there's someone manning the cash box. That person gets you the pen and the receipt book, but you, the designer, fill out the receipt and take the cash. The person manning the booth makes change for you, which you pass on to the customer. You bag up the product and hand it over to the customer.

Paul

Re: Ron's Point #1

I can't really speak much to the idea espoused as certainly buying from "The Guy" has never once motivated a single purchase I've ever made at any con, nor can I say I ever witnessed anyone at a booth declining a purchase from whoever happened to be behind the register at the time.

But assuming this is actually a real phenomenon that I am simply not familiar with, it would seem to me that Paul's outline meets the needs of buying from "The Guy" without requiring each "Guy" to have their own cash box and point of sale location. Ron, your thoughts?

Between foot traffic from browsers, occupied tables with demoers comeing in and out and arrangements for same being made, people shilling their product and the like the booth could be a real zoo. Made the worse by several different cash boxes and people trying to get to and from them to make sales, etc.

Paul's model for POS sounds optimum. I think a laptop or other computer with a DB on it to act as register/recording device would be good as the primary method (with recipts for backup). Probably a bit classier, too. Makes the accounting much easier. I can organize that if nobody else can.

Mike

Do we know what booth number we're in? I've got the map from the GenCon site, and I'm curious as to what sort of facing we'll have.

Mike

Part of the reason is, bluntly, that people really want to buy the game from The Guy, meaning the person who publishes it. It's a tangible and highly significant desire in the case of Sorcerer; if we go with a single point of purchase, I anticipate anywhere up to 50% loss of my sales.

Hi Matt,

That has a lot of merit. Here's one small point:

You wrote,

it makes me feel a little like you don't trust anyone but yourself to keep an accurate count of your sales.

So they give them money to "the guy" and the guy makes the purchase offically after the customer leaves. All done.

Jake

What's the furniture situation like? Has anyone talked to the decorator?

http://www.geofern.com/exhibitor%20service.htm#custom

They seem to have some options that look cool. Is it possible to get the stools and tall tables? Or are furniture options beyond the standard Con stuff too expensive or simply unavailable?

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: Is it possible to get the stools and tall tables? Or are furniture options beyond the standard Con stuff too expensive or simply unavailable?

From what I remember they are a total rip off... bring your own! They wanted like $50 a chair and $100 a table or something really anoying like that.

The basic stuff looks, well, pretty basic. Not too far from what we had last year (chairs that I fear will collapse beneath my weight, for example). This is what I think the largest problem will be with making the booth "cozy" to play in.

My research confirms what's been said, however; captive market, sky high prices. You can actually buy the furniture for the same amount or less, if you're willing to move it on your own. Yikes.

That said, I'm looking into some other options. Is anyone else working on this? Or have a better idea?

BTW, anyone have something large and sectional that they could bring for "cubbies"? That was a great idea, I thought. In fact if we could get something more like lockers, that would be great. Anyone? Is this still something we're interested in?

An idea I had was for everyone who comes to bring a houseplant like a fern or philadendron. Does that make sense? Give the place a warm feel?

The more it looks like a professional place, like a place to relax, the better response I think we'll get (anyone on the same visualization pattern as me?).

Any thought as to the potentiallity of doing too well, BTW? What happens if everyone in the world wants in? How do we handle overflow?

Just more random thoughts as they occur to me. :-)

Mike

You could maybe get chairs a step up from the default from some kind of rental place in town - the places that rent for things like weddings and so on. Convention centers often have sinister drayage/unloading rates, though, so it still might not be worth it. That is, the people at the rental agency might have to hand the stacks of chairs over to the people at the center, who then charge a kidney per hundredweight to wheel them over to the booth. It varies from convention to convention. The people at the rental place would have an idea of what's involved.

Convention center prices are carefully calculated, I think, to make you wonder if the extra effort is worth it.

Matt Wilson wrote: Convention center prices are carefully calculated, I think, to make you wonder if the extra effort is worth it.

Can we just haul them in by hand? Or would that be violating some rule? I mean, we all bring in our own product and such in boxes, could we each just carry a chair or two in from outside the morning it starts? It so happens that I'm staying with a friend who lives in Indy, so some of the logistics aren't as difficult as they sound. I could accept delivery there, and arrange for transport to the Con.

That said, even though much less expensive, it's still going to be at least $10 a chair for anything decent. So I'm not sure that this is going to happen anyhow. How many chairs are we going to need? What's the layout look like so far?

Mike

You should be able to bring your own stuff and set it up. Shouldn't be a problem. Where they have problems is they want a union person to hook up your electrical and such... But we always bring a few extra chairs when we exhibit. Even extra tables.

Problem is, I live in the Milwaukee area and now it's not going to be there so now I have to worry about how I'm going to get everything there in one trip.

As for your overflow problem, you should setup a schedule for people to cover the booths. Nothing worse then 10+ people blocking the way for customers to actually see your products!

James

I'd like to add that stools make more sense then chairs for lots of reasons, if we can find them as cheaply.

Jake

Wow. Finances are looking possible for a trip to Gencon this year. In any event, I would like to offer some help....

You mention the 11" x 14" posters. (Just to clarify -- inches right?) I can print them on my printer for free here - 2-3 copies each on glossy or cardstock paper (whichever you wanted). Just send me the PDF, Pagemaker, or Quark file. That will cut down on some costs. I can't print banners -- but if you want catalogs printed, I could do some of those -- granted if they aren't crazy complicated. I could see a nice little 2-sided one page catalog (or even half a page) with links to supporting games/sites, etc... Oh and -- color too.

(On a side note: Does anyone have any hotel room space? I would be willing to pay my part and sleep on the floor.)

To solve the coffee dilemma, we need to find perhaps a battery powered coffee machine or something. You still have to consider water and the actual coffee.... But, you could buy a few gallon jugs of water each day, have backup batteries, and get a couple of different kinds of decent coffee... I dunno... Has anyone heard of a battery powered coffee machine? I mean, heck, enough people go camping that such a thing has to exist...

Thanks,
Nathan

rpghost wrote: You should be able to bring your own stuff and set it up. Shouldn't be a problem. Where they have problems is they want a union person to hook up your electrical and such... But we always bring a few extra chairs when we exhibit. Even extra tables.

Problem is, I live in the Milwaukee area and now it's not going to be there so now I have to worry about how I'm going to get everything there in one trip.

As for your overflow problem, you should setup a schedule for people to cover the booths. Nothing worse then 10+ people blocking the way for customers to actually see your products!

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the suggestions, but I think we need to think about what is really important. The booth will be about 20' long and 10' deep and we can't expect to fill it with stuff and then have an open floorplan for all the people who are going to be around to talk about and play games. Right now the layout will have one table middle back, two on each side toward the back, a new display centrally at the front and a row of three tables angeled for either side of the display. If one setup dosen't work, we can always change it at the end of the day. I'll ask Paul Czege to put the proposed layouts on his website and we'll get a link for people to see. Please know that this will NOT be to scale.

If rental of tables and chairs becomes cheaper than using the conference centers equipment, then it would be a good idea. If someone would like to inquire into that and report the findings, please do but soon. I don't think anyone should buy them, that is way too much of a financial committment for one use. This coffee idea maybe a little over our heads as well. Not only do we have to supply the water, coffee and the machines, we'll have to get sugar, cups (with lids?), napkins, stirs, and creamer. I'm leery about the possiblity of spills or running out of supplies. Let's try to stay focused, we need to get the necessary things completed first. We don't even know if we can give out coffee.

Nathan, thanks for offering to print the 11" by 14" signs, that would be great! I expect only one for each game that is for sale. Speaking of which, lets start a count of everyone who is selling a game, if you are going to be there or not. Either post here or send me a private message. I would like to see one large sign for every game for sale and we'll also have a list of free games as well. Again I'll ask Paul to post the example that I have created on his website.

-Danielle

Per 11" x 14" signs:

Just so you know -- I don't have any 11 x 14" paper on hand. I do have 11" x 17" paper on hand (glossy) -- would it be easier to make it tabloid size or does the 14" fit the booth size? If so, how hard is it to get 11 x 14" paper?

Thanks,
Nathan

Hi there,

We have to stick with the convention center's furniture provider. We won't be bringing in any sort of chairs or anything else of our own.

Best,
Ron

Nathan,

yeah 11 by 17, my wrong. thanks

Paul put the following on his website:

Sign- to get the basic idea.
http://www.halfmeme.com/poster.jpg

Booth layouts- still working on this, not to scale
http://www.halfmeme.com/boothdesign1.jpg
http://www.halfmeme.com/boothdesign2.jpg

I was under the understanding that the Booth was 20' x 20'

20' x 10' would be smaller than last year.

,Matt

I believe it IS smaller than last year...its on an end rather than a side so it should feel more open, but this is why its so important to get a good idea of the layout and such ahead of time.

Issues that will be very important from a space standpoint

1) finalizing just how many seperate points of sale we're going to have. Each one uses space that could be used for displays and demoing.

2) making sure there are not superfluous people lounging in the booth this year. Everyone in the booth should be either a) actively PLAYING a demo (not just hanging around waiting for one), b) actively SELLING potential customers...that means literally getting peoples attention and convincing them to come check out a game, any game, or c) manning a point of sale, taking money, writing reciepts, keeping good records, and keeping an eye on things. Everyone else should be elsewhere.

3) actually official demo schedules so that 2a) becomes possible with people showing up for their alloted demo slots. Actual official "open demo" space with a table and 1 or 2 people at most willing to jump into a spontaneous game of any type to help close a sale.

4) a planned schedule for 2c) so that responsible people are manning the cash box and being relieved at regular intervals. This of course in contingent on settling on 1) above.

5) more than just a couple people actually engaged in 2a). I was a little disappointed last year that one of the biggest sales people out shilling our games for us, was a friend of Ron's who showed up to help but had no game himself or particular interest (that I know of anyway) at being a designer. But he was out there working it.

I know sales is not a comfortable thing for most people...I myself despise it even though my job requires it on a regular basis. But you don't get easier sales than this. These are gamers...at the biggest gaming con in the world...in the biggest dealer room they've ever seen...with money burning a hole in their pocket. You can see it in their eyes as they walk down the isles...begging you to tell them what they should spend next month's rent on. You don't get warmer sales leads than that.

All of the above is IMO and other suitable disclaimers of course.

Kind of related but ...

It looks like I'll be going to Origins after all, so I'll be sharing a table with RPG Objects who we work closely with. I'll be taking books from RPGMall down there to sell.

Just thought I'd let you guys know so if you're an RPGMall vendor you'll get some exposure there.

We are hoping to get retail stores to start paying attention to us. We recently signed a contract with Warehouse 23, so some of your products may start showing up there.

James

Sweet. The retail end is really what interested me, so I'm glad to see you going in that direction. I'll definitely stop by.

Updates

I talked to Chris Passeno about stickers, bags and a digital banner. The sticker price is good, 100 for $38, 200 for $44 and 500 for $64. The bag price, over $150 for 500, is too much for our budget. I'll get standard bags at an office supply store for much less. A digital banner will maintain the design detail of the Forge logo while a vinyl banner will not. The logo will have to be simplified for that type. I am currently pricing both and will make a decision by next week.

My next task is to start on the 11" x 17" signs. This is what I will need from every person selling a game (or a free game) and wants a sign:
1- photo of you, name
2- logo of game
3- subtitle or short catch phrase
4- others able to give a demo game

My e-mail address is in my profile. Please see my previous post for examples of sign design. Deadline for sign information is July 4th.

Hi Danielle,

Thanks for taking the reins on this. Someone needed to drag along this bag of puppies.

Just to let you (and everyone) know: I will be bringing all of my own signage. You don't need to make 11x17 boards for me, I'll do it.

In fact, I recommend everyone who can afford a trip to Kinkos do the same. We should try and relieve pressure on the Forge volunteers.

Just sos yous alls knows: Little old me is bringing: hundreds of printed stickers with my logo and website address, a couple of glossy 11x17 and 8.5x11 sign boards, table stands for the signs, and a 4x4 cloth banner. Plus as many sets of my books as I can (plus character sheets and other paper). This GenCon and I am going all out.

As far as Forge communal stuff goes: Stickers work. I give stickers out at LGS and cons and they drive a lot of traffic to my site. Is that what the stickers are for? To drive traffic to the Forge?

The color, 11x17 signs are a great idea. Everyone who can't print/make their own should get on board with this. Remember, you can pdf your designs to nathan or danielle.

What I think we really really need is a game menu. Not with demo schedules or anything. Just a 8.5x11 double-sided B/W copy on color paper that states clearly each game name, its price, a logo, and a short description/website if available. If we put these in EVERY book sold at the booth we will get a lot of residual traffic afterwards and perhaps even over the course of the con. I see it as a wish list for the kids.

I will compile and design this if no one else is doing it already. I can bring a master print with me and have the copies made in Indy. (or can arrange this, since I won't be there til friday). PM or Email me if you are interested.

one last thing: FVLMINATA BETTER be promoted/supported/demo'ed/sold at this booth. It's a great game, and I don't want it to fall off the map.

::insert ranting imp icon here::
-L

Hi there,

If I understand correctly, Michael will be playing and promoting Fvlminata at the booth.

Ralph - you'll be pleased to know that I am now A-OK with the idea of centralized money management. Call it my own contribution (i.e. mental sacrifice) to the shared goals of the booth.

Best,
Ron

Hey, all.

I'll be there with the very last copies, ever of FVLMINATA 2nd Edition, as well as bunches of Tali. I'll be working on my sign and demo this weekend. I'm scheduled to run ticketed games of "Weekend at Burnius" on Thursday and Friday from 7-11pm, but, as it's already sold out, I'll be ready to run it again in case anyone's interested on Saturday/Sunday.

I might also have Limelight playtestable by that point.

BTW, if anyone else is interested in being a FVLMINATA Demo GM at the booth, please send me a PM as soon as possible, so I can list your name on the sign. If you need a demo to run, I'll provide one. Otherwise, I'd love to see yours.