The other day Paul asked me how many words my last printing of Kayfabe was. I wasn't sure, so I checked. It came out to be 22, 237 words with page headings and all that stuff. Is that a lot for a 32 page book?

The next print run is looking like about 55,000 for about 72 pages.

I'm curious.
How many words is your game?
how many words per page is standard?
At what point does reducing font size to save money on page count become counter productive?

,Matt Gwinn

The S&S text is currently about 44,000 words, though it'll probably be smaller as it's edited (though...). It runs about 120 pages in a size similar to the other Sorcerer books, with no art.

I'm not sure if that helps or not.

Mike

Shadows in the Fog is currently about 51,000 for Volume 1 (which is missing about 10,000 words of stuff), and 10,000 for Volume 2 (which is 1/10 done). So including some adventure ideas and some NPC writeups, I'm looking at 200,000 words, give or take.

Why are you worrying about this? I mean, do you have a publisher who really cares about this or something?

I mean, do you have a publisher who really cares about this or something?

Whoa! Does Spock have a goatee? Is this the same Enterprise I was a member of yesterday? What's our mission?

Paul

Paul,

Err, sorry. Last publisher I dealt with had a bad itch about word counts. Admittedly not in RPGs, but is it really that strange a question?

Chris

Which one? ^_^

I've got 10k words invested in Blackbirds, with another 5-7k to go, 13k on the d20 Rev. War setting, and another 6k in TRCKRS (but neither the Rev. War setting nor TRCKRS will get much attention until this fall)

-j-

Why are you worrying about this? I mean, do you have a publisher who really cares about this or something?

Pax Draconis is a little over 200,000 words spread over 300 pages for the core book. I've got about an equal amount written for three supplements (though I think it will end up at about 250,000 over 400 pages when all is said and done for them).

From a readability point of view I'd say that font size is much less important than layout. For example, I have a copy of Chivalry and Sorcery that has fairly large text but is practically unreadable due to poorly differentiated sections and a lack of white space. My 3rd ed D&D on the other hand has relatively small text but an excellent layout with a large gap between columns and clear headings. I find it very easy to scan through and read. Of course, you'll never have the budget to produce something of the same quality, but I think lessons can be learned none-the-less.

I tentively suggest these guidelines:

1. It is good to drop the font size to increase the amount of whitespace.
2. It is OK to drop the font size PROVIDING that doesn't make each line too long.
3. Fancier fonts need to be in larger sizes.

Highly subjectively, I'd say a full line across A4 needs to be in 12 point or larger (actual experience shows 8pt on A4 is a no-no), and font sizes less than 8 pts are effectively unreadable to a large portion of the population.

Matt:

You can reduce font size without worry, but make sure you change your formatting along with it.

One column of text shouldn't be any longer than 55-60 characters, including spaces. With a 10-pt font, you'll want two columns. That'll get you close to 800 words per page, depending on your margins.

If you have more than 60 characters, try leaving the right side of the column unjustified ("ragged"). Makes it easier for a reader to read longer lines.

Also, play around with type. Some fonts look better than others in smaller sizes.

Why not just make it bigger and charge more? Starting capitol?

Mike

Why not just make it bigger and charge more? Starting capitol?

How about taking out important points and blowing them up, magazine style, as an alternative white space provider?

8 pt to me is really small. I especially dislike reading it online, but at least it's Helvetica and not, say, Times. That would be a disaster, IMHO! I'd need a magnifying glass to read it without eye strain.

All our products are anywhere from 9 to 11 pt, usually Times or another similar font for the non-modern games, Arial (basically Helvetica, only PC style) on the modern ones. The sans serif fonts can be a lot smaller than the serif-ed ones, just because if you look at 10pt Arial and 10pt Times next to one another, the Arial looks bigger.

As far as space around pictures, I usually use points, cutting the size of the font in half. For instance, 10pt text, I put 5 pts of space. This is true for section headers as well. Before each section header, I have a half space.

As far as word count goes, we have a little over 1000 words a page. Some pages have more artwork on them, but that's where we end up on average.

Hey Chris,

...but is it really that strange a question?

Here's the deal. I'm nearly finished writing My Life with Master. It will be around 12,000 words when I'm done. And I'm going to be selling at GenCon, presenting it to a lot of folks who're conditioned to look for...heft, in a game, rather than completeness. When I asked Matt Gwinn about the Kayfabe wordcount, and Matt Snyder about the Dust Devils wordcount, it was actually prefatory to my real question: "Have you received criticism from customers for the size of your game? How did you handle it?" They've been there, and I haven't.

Paul

"Have you received criticism from customers for the size of your game? How did you handle it?" They've been there, and I haven't.

Even though they do not know much about GNS or similar theory, I think that size might not matter, depending on how its marketed. People will be wanting to spend cash and they are just as likely to spend money on 2 to 3 smaller and lower priced games as one big one.

Also, look at the newest Marvel SUpers game. Take away the 100,000 pictures of Spider-Man and you have a pretty small book. Its not heavy on content. Of course Marvel is self marketing in many different ways.

At least at Gen Con you will have somewhat of a chance to pitch your products in person.

Sean
ADGBoss

Matt Gwinn wrote: How many words is your game?

The Burning Wheel is 170,000 words spread across two 8.5x5.5 books.
It is in 9 pt Bauer Bodoni with 12 pt leading and custom set H&Js justified across 4.5 inch columns. There is not one hyphenated word in the book.

I am always happy to answer questions about typesetting as well.

-Luke

I don't count words in my games. I count pages. Not only does focusing on the page count take things like art into account, it also is the major factor in determining things like file size and printing costs.

Of course, you can do all sorts of thing to tweask page count, like reducing the size of your fonts, but the fact is that readers don't count words -- they count pages.

Michael Hopcroft wrote: I don't count words in my games. I count pages. Not only does focusing on the page count take things like art into account, it also is the major factor in determining things like file size and printing costs.

chadu wrote:

Matt Gwinn wrote: How many words is your game?

At last count, the manuscript for my "Sekrit Projekt D" (real title forthcoming) as it went into playtest was around 70k. There's a big chunk that's going to be cut, but I'm betting with the revision comments and additions, that number will jump back up to hit the 70k mark. I've been making vague notes on the process of writing the book and playtesting it as it's happened on my LJ. (At least one or two of you folks here have been involved, and I thank you.)

More as it develops...