Topic: Reward factors
Started by: taalyn
Started on: 6/18/2003
Board: RPG Theory
On 6/18/2003 at 8:37pm, taalyn wrote:
Reward factors
I'm just looking for people's ideas for how they reward players with experience points and the like. For example, one factor I've seen is the "cool feat" point, granting the player extra XPs for some amazing action, like hanging upside down from a tree limb and shooting all the bad guys. Another example might be "emotional play", given to a player who actually roleplays so well that he has players crying (and not from a mean streak, but I mean that they're dying or departing scene was so eloquent, that people wept).
I'm trying to build a database of possibles, so this thread isn't the place to discuss or argue about them - just what people have used or find important enough in play to reward.
My offerings to start:
Cool feat
Emotional play
Best quote
Hilarity
Eureka moment
Aidan
(Edited for atrocious kitten-provoked spelling)
On 6/18/2003 at 8:59pm, Lxndr wrote:
RE: Reward factors
Although I don't do this, from games I've seen:
* Killing things
* Taking their stuff
A subset of killing things:
* rewards specifically based on how much damage you did
* a reward based on whether or not you gave the killing blow
On 6/18/2003 at 9:10pm, jdagna wrote:
RE: Reward factors
My game awards experience in four areas:
1) Role-Playing (being in character and doing it well)
2) Planning/Originality (coming up with cool ideas)
3) Group Cooperation (contributing to the group's overall enjoyment)
4) Overcoming Obstacles (not just killing things, but any problem)
GM's rate each area on a scale of 0 (awful or nonexistant) to 7 (something you'll be talking about for months). Thus, a "good" session usually earns about 15 points.
I've always liked Palladium's system of specific awards for specific actions.
On 6/18/2003 at 10:46pm, cruciel wrote:
RE: Reward factors
When I play experience is given out in the same portion to all players based upon how much time passed for the characters, how much they did, how fun the session was, and how long we played. The exception to this is that you run the risk of getting less experience points than everyone else if you are significantly tardy to game.
So, I guess you've got two segments there:
How much the characters did.
How much the players did.
On 6/19/2003 at 12:01am, taalyn wrote:
RE: Reward factors
here's my goal, to see if this helps guide ideas at all:
Everyone gets a standard reward (15 XPs) for showing up, playing, etc. What I'm looking for is the exceptional categories that merit extra awards.
The idea is this, based on something someone else said here (and I can't remember who or where). Each of these ideas has a card. The cards are passed out before the game to each player, and during the game, a player may give any card in his hand to any other player who merits an award for what's written on the card. I think these factors should reflect all modes of game, and extend further into other boxes as well. At the end of the session, every card in your hand is worth so many XPs. Basically, it's an idea for player rewarding player from a set pool (the number of cards).
I'm not looking for 40 gold pieces = 40 XPs, but rather in- and out-of-game experiences which make the game better (= more engaging) for everyone.
Another: best roleplying
Think of them like trophies - if you could afford to give out any number of trophies to your gaming group, what trophies/categories would there be? Even if they're particular to one player, the concept could be useful to everyone.
Aidan
On 6/19/2003 at 2:51am, M. J. Young wrote:
RE: Reward factors
In Multiverser, we have no rewards system at all--play is its own reward. People play it (and they beg me to make time to run it) because they are rewarded by the experience of play itself, and not to earn any kind of points or anything. I'm strongly of the opinion that you don't need "rewards systems", but if you have them they really only work well if they support what the players already enjoy about the game.
The other point I want to make, which I have made quite a few times before, is that while it is important how experience points are earned, it is at least as important as what they do. If you give points for good role playing that can only be used to create a greater combat monster, you're not so much encouraging good role playing as creating combat monsters. If you give points for defeating monsters that are used to write story, you're probably not encouraging defeating monsters as much as writing story. What the points do may ultimately be far more important than how you earn them--and explains why all those "fixes" for D&D that take away the points for killing monsters and getting treasure and replaces them with points for good role playing, acting in alignment or religion, great dialogue, cool moments, and so forth, don't stop the game from being about killing monsters and getting treasure.
--M. J. Young
On 6/19/2003 at 2:59am, M. J. Young wrote:
RE: Reward factors
Double post--apologies for the confusion.
--M. J. Young
On 6/19/2003 at 6:09am, Mad-Eye Moody wrote:
RE: Reward factors
M. J. Young wrote: I'm strongly of the opinion that you don't need "rewards systems", but if you have them they really only work well if they support what the players already enjoy about the game.
I believe I'm in agreement. Not a lot of the people I know think the same way though. It's very hard to unlearn a couple decades of playing games that use reward systems quite heavily.
M. J. Young wrote:
The other point I want to make, which I have made quite a few times before, is that while it is important how experience points are earned, it is at least as important as what they do. If you give points for good role playing that can only be used to create a greater combat monster, you're not so much encouraging good role playing as creating combat monsters.
This is a very good insight.
In games I run, I like to have the rules and system reflect the story rather than the other way around, so I only allow increases in a skill that are demonstrated in play. This is done through the use of a metagame resource-- use them to turn failure into success enough and your character has demonstrated that they are of a certain skill level. The sheet level is then increased to reflect the competence demonstrated in the story. That's the only time "experience" is awarded in games I run.
Is there a way to encourage good role playing through the use of a rewards system?
On 6/19/2003 at 10:41am, Ben Morgan wrote:
RE: Reward factors
The system I'm using in the Cyberpunk game I'm curently running is a combination of a couple of ideas I've learned here.
First, I have a system that rewards players for the behavior I would like to see more of. In the case of Cyberpunk, the players get points for being cool (the definition of which is left up to group concensus). A lot of it coincides with Aidan's list. I've also been consciously and actively encouraging the use of different stances, including audience stance (I've stopped the action a couple of times to call for a vote for what the coolest to happen next would be). When the PCs make any kind of perception or 'get-info' roll, I have them narrate what they find. Sometimes, they come up with something that takes the scene (and thus the whole story) in completely different direction, and I'll reward that generously. I'll also reward a players for an action that could lead to the character being hosed in a particularly dramatic way, but is taken anyway for the sake of the story (we call it Taking That Bus.*).
Second, the way the points are used is flexible. They can be used in a Reward Now fashion, as bonus points to a particular roll, or Reward Later, using them as WW-style experience points. Some like the former, others prefer the latter, and some use them both ways.
-- Ben
* From a fairly obscure quote from Fear of a Black Hat: "Because when you *take* that bus... you *get* there."
On 6/19/2003 at 5:57pm, Matt Wilson wrote:
RE: Reward factors
Are you also looking for what the reward is? Or just how it's earned?
Primetime Adventures uses a reward mechanic where players earn a kind of karma by developing their characters' personalities - one example is if you as a player make a character's personal issue prominent in a scene, creating some drama and whatnot.
The points are used to modify die rolls during the game, but not to increase a character's abilities or anything permanent.
On 6/19/2003 at 6:09pm, Lxndr wrote:
RE: Reward factors
Each character in Everway has a "Fate," something they will eventually meet, and resolve, either positively or negatively. When that happens, you get to choose a new fate (and a new virtue and flaw). Besides that, the only things you get are whatever you might pick up in your travels, which can always be lost.
A nifty "character advancement" system that I've seen tacked onto the Everway rules is, when you meet your Fate, you can choose to move a character point from one place to another. So your character changes, substantially, but is still the same person. New powers come slowly, at the expense of other powers. And so on.
I thought it was nifty. A reward system without a ramp.
On 6/19/2003 at 6:12pm, Hunter Logan wrote:
RE: Reward factors
Rewards should stimulate the desired player actions in your game. If you want characters to go out and fight, reward players for finding fights and winning them. If you want players to add more ideas to the game session, work harder at character portrayal or whatever, reward players for doing that. Then, along the lines of what MJ wrote, let the rewards empower the players to do more of the desired stuff. I don't know about rewarding players for showing up; but if that extra enticement helps attendance, then why not?
On 6/19/2003 at 6:25pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Reward factors
Lxndr wrote: I thought it was nifty. A reward system without a ramp.
Just like Kicker resolution in Sorcerer. :-)
Mike
On 6/19/2003 at 6:37pm, Lxndr wrote:
RE: Reward factors
Mike Holmes wrote:Lxndr wrote: I thought it was nifty. A reward system without a ramp.
Just like Kicker resolution in Sorcerer. :-)
Mike
Sorcerer also has the "roll Humanity against your stats until one goes up" part, too, right? At the end of every "story" if I remember right. So there is some small ramp there. But yes, otherwise you're right. :)
On 6/20/2003 at 5:49am, Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
Re: Reward factors
A concept for reward I'm toying with presently is the idea of power-up much like in video games. A simple, balanced advantage that is easily gained, but easily lost. It can make the game easier but is not necessary
On 6/20/2003 at 6:00am, M. J. Young wrote:
RE: Reward factors
'Mad-Eye' Nathan 'Moody' wrote: Is there a way to encourage good role playing through the use of a rewards system?
I've got an article almost ready to go that touches on these kinds of questions; if I get time this weekend, and Clinton is settled into his new digs, it should post early next week. Watch for Applied Theory.
Obviously, if you want to encourage "good role-playing" (whatever you mean by that), you give "points"--currency--for any play that qualifies. That part's the relatively easy part. The question is, what do you do with it, if not build up skills or combat potential? The obvious answer is that you make it something that can be spent to enhance role playing--but what would that be? Here are a couple ideas.
• Limited director power--the ability to bring characters into a scene by spending currency. This would enable the player to say, "As I'm arguing with the merchant, suddenly my partner walks in," or similarly the merchant's best customer, or a prominent citizen who is indebted to the character, or someone of that sort. It could be broader than that, like creating connections--"I realize that his style is so similar to mine that he must have learned from the same sensei, and when I mention this he says indeed he did."• The ability to create contacts and connections, in essence spending currency to build up relationships with characters either created for this purpose or known to exist without much information.• The ability to create complications in the world, plot, or background. I've an example of this in the article, so I'll leave it at that.
The idea is to figure out what sort of power/control/credibility the player could use specifically to do more of the kind of "role-playing" you want to see, and give him the power to do that.
Make sense?
--M. J. Young
On 6/20/2003 at 6:22am, taalyn wrote:
RE: Reward factors
I'm looking forward to your article, MJ, as that's exactly what I have set up to do. I'm just trolling for a list of behaviors to reward, basically. And then the rewards presented will go towards the kinds of things you mention.
Aidan