Topic: The competition has entered my turf!
Started by: Michael Hopcroft
Started on: 6/25/2003
Board: Publishing
On 6/25/2003 at 2:09am, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
The competition has entered my turf!
I'm sure Adam Jury, who is on the Forge, can supply us with the full press release, but it appears Guardians of order is going to be selling their out-of-print backlog on .
Initial titles will include "Hot Rods and Gun Bunnies", "Cute and Fuzzy Seizure Monsters", Hong Kong Action Theatre!" and much more. Apparently new titles will be added to the list as the print versions disappear from Guardians' warehouse.
If nothing else, this illustrates the virtue of saving your typesetting files. It also illutsrates that more "mainstream" game companies are seeing the PDF market as viable. From a competitive standpoint, though, this means that Guardians of Order's advantage over someone like me is veen stronger. Now I know that Mark is not trying to but be out of busienss and doesn;t even want to -- we are the friendliest of rivals, and I really do wish them well. I'm just wondering how I and my marketing strategy can be helped by the presence of a company of gaurdians of order's caliber in the E-Book market.
On 6/25/2003 at 3:20am, Valamir wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
You've answered your own question Mike.
Any time an established print company starts releasing product in pdf its a boon to pdf publishers. Even though right now most of them view it as a way to eke some extra cash out of a "dead" game without much expense required, or as a short time advertising gimmick, it raises awareness.
Every GoO fan whose never bought a PDF in their life who buys a GoO PDF is now a potential PDF buyer for you. Every GoO fan who clicks through to RPGNow is a potential PDF buyer for you. Nobody impulse buys like gamers.
On 6/25/2003 at 3:42am, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
Impulse buys
Anyone who doubts that nobody impulse buys like gamers has never seen me in my FLGS. Most of the times I go in nothing strikes my fancy and i walk out empty-handed. but sometimes I see something that suddenly I'be just got to have.
I'm even worse at RPGNow because I don;t have to store the book anywhere but my hard drive and the prices are usually so cheap. Plus the Linux PDF reader is usually quite good at reading these books -- simply click a button to turn the page.
Thje point is that now, for the first time, i feel I am directly competing with Guardians of Order for business. If it's a market that grows with new products, I'm OK. If it's a zero-sum game, however, I'm going to be crushed under the full weight of a sumo wrestler....
On 6/25/2003 at 2:22pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
Oh for golly gosh sakes ...
Michael, the more material Guardians of Order puts out, the more HeartQuest benefits. "Competition" is precisely the wrong model for you to be using.
More anime stuff available = more stuff for anime play using any anime-type game system.
Wrap your head around that one. It's important.
Best,
Ron
On 6/26/2003 at 12:06am, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
have you heard the latest?
On July 10th, GOO is going to be releasing a FREE PDF of their BRAND-NEW tri-Stat DX core roles.
I don't know yet (I'll ask) whether the file will be available only on the 10th or whther it will be a permanent addition to the RPGNow catalog.
[EDIT -- I found out, from Mark MacKinnon himself, that it will be a permanent addition to the catalog. So much for the July 10th rush...]
Mark MacKinnon is crazy -- like a fox. Brett Bernstien did the same thing with his [1]Active Exploits[/1] diceless core rules (the rules set for HeartQuest Diceless and got thousands of downloads. he made no money off that release, but interest in his future products has been keen. Mark already has a built-in market for anything he publishes from the core Tri-Stat loyalists -- and he may well create many more such lloyalists by the expedient of releasing the core rule set for free to anyone who wants it. Plus he can clean up on all the people who see this system, decide they want to use it for their own games, and sign up for the Magnum Opus program 9which I hope he will open to e-publishers -- not thatg I'm in a hurry to publish a Tri-Stat game, but the thought has indeed crossed my mind.)[
On 6/26/2003 at 6:02am, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
Ron Edwards wrote: Oh for golly gosh sakes ...
Michael, the more material Guardians of Order puts out, the more HeartQuest benefits. "Competition" is precisely the wrong model for you to be usi
More anime stuff available = more stuff for anime play using any anime-type game system.
Wrap your head around that one. It's important.
Every time I try to wrap my head around that one, my teacher from business school comes by with scissors ready to cut the riboon.
The key to success in business, I was told, was to offer something to the customer that nobody else can. This could be a product nobody else has, superior service, a location that is easier to reach -- the important thing is that you need an advanatge of some sort to prosper.
This model of "cooperative competition" that seems to be prevelant in the RPG business, as fostered by things like the Open Gaming Liicense for D20, would be alien to him. Indeed, it is probably alien to Wizards of the Coast -- they may believe that every sale of a D20 product means that someobdy is going to buy their products, but they have occasionally said their goal is to drive everybody that doesn;t go D20 into oblivion. Thus, behind the facade of "helping the little guy succeed" is the ruthelss will to drive him into the ground.
Now Guardians of Order is not Wizards of the Coast. And tri-Stat is not D20. It is, for instance, a closed-license system -- to use it you have to buy a license from them at a fee most small publishers would consider exorbitant. To even publish a conversion from your system to tri-Stat costs $100. Guardians or Order's idea of fostering the small publisher is to enroll them into the Magnum opus program in which they have right of approval for the game's content. As it turns out, magnum opus has several companies signed up but none of them have released a Tri-Stat title yet. One of my friends read a note of desperation in their press release as D20 eats up more and more of their market share. In fact, Guardian's big release for origins is BESM D20, a point-based reworking of the D20 system with anime gamers in mind and character classes like Mecha Pilot, Student and Giant Robot.
I don't think they're that desperate, though. They appear to be doing just fine as far as paying the bills and such. I just hope their expansion into the e-publishing market doesn;t hurt my efforts to pay MY bills.
Some people say there is only so much money out there in the RPG market, and any money that one company receives is taken away from another -- especially in a niche genre like aniime.
On 6/26/2003 at 7:51am, Bankuei wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
Hi Michael,
I think there's some key points to consider...
-Rpgs are a luxury
Folks who buy rpgs, typically are not scraping for cash. Those that are, usually buy used, or make their own games. The scrapers are not going to make the majority of your business.
-Gamers are collectors
As above, most people aren't actually debating between buying Game X and Game Y. They're debating which one to get FIRST. If they're interested, most likely they'll get BOTH game X and Y after a period of time. Actual play is less of a determinant of folks buying rather than, "Hey, this looks interesting".
-The myth of the "satisfied gamer"
D20, GURPS, Tri-Stat. It really doesn't matter what the competing system is, either someone will find it good enough, perfect, or not quite what they need. If its the first two cases, its rather unlikely that your system would be what they're looking for anyway. If its the last case, they'll keep looking, and since they'll be looking for an anime game, they might just look your way.
-Exposure + Good press = Sales
Let's not lie here. RPGs are a popularity thing more than anything else. Look at the level of emotional investment in folks who are cultishly dedicated to their "One True Game". This being the case, your sales, are independant of Tri-Stat, or anyone else. The more folks hear about HQ, and hear good things about it, the more sales you will have over time.
Look at the buzz over Marvel Universe, Savage Worlds, or D&D 3.5. More people have probably bought these games based on press releases and advertising rather than any actual play reviews. What this means is, your sales are either going to come from advertising buzz($$$) or actual play buzz(see Sorcerer).
The only probable result of GOO's move is to further legitimize pdfs, which is good for all pdf publishers. And it is good for you as well, because all the anime gamers dissatisfied with BESM(and they are out there) will keep searching, and some will find you.
This all said, I'd be gathering a lot of folks to play, play, play HQ and post up Actual Play. I have been sold on more games via Actual Play than anything else. What is positive, is positive buzz, generates a community, and there you go. What is negative, use as constructive criticism, to better hone HQ into something that does provide that unique anime RPG experience that no one else can match.
Chris
On 6/26/2003 at 6:47pm, C. Edwards wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
Hey Michael,
I just want to second Chris' point of getting people to play, play, play. I've bought six out of the ten games (currently published and for sale) that I've played with the Indie-netgaming crowd. At least one more of those I will buy in the near future. There are also a couple games that I've playtested that I will buy the moment they're published and for sale, or will just greedily grab up if they end up being free. :)
Nothing helps a person decide whether or not they want to buy your game like actual play.
-Chris
On 6/26/2003 at 9:47pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
Re: Impulse buys
Everyone's "Don't worry, it's better business for everyone involved" comments apply to my response.
Just one thing I wanted to point out, though...
Michael Hopcroft wrote: If it's a market that grows with new products, I'm OK. If it's a zero-sum game, however, I'm going to be crushed under the full weight of a sumo wrestler....
In that Magnum Opus line, there's a Shoujou BESM supplement planned and/or in the works. Have you thought about how you're going to market once that is released? Have you contacted the designers of that supplement? Just curious.
http://electricmulch.com/phile/MagnumOpus/HSF.html
-Andy
On 6/26/2003 at 11:27pm, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
RE: Re: Impulse buys
Andy Kitkowski wrote: Everyone's "Don't worry, it's better business for everyone involved" comments apply to my response.
Just one thing I wanted to point out, though...
Michael Hopcroft wrote: If it's a market that grows with new products, I'm OK. If it's a zero-sum game, however, I'm going to be crushed under the full weight of a sumo wrestler....
In that Magnum Opus line, there's a Shoujou BESM supplement planned and/or in the works. Have you thought about how you're going to market once that is released? Have you contacted the designers of that supplement? Just curious.
My only contact with them has been through public forums, in which they have all but handed me a wakazashi and told me what to do with it. They seem to be of the opinion that I am the one intruding on their turf and they seem to want nothing to do with me. I'm surprised they haven;t sent me a cease-and0desist letter claiming some sort of trademark rights over the word "shoujo".
On 6/30/2003 at 11:56pm, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
How many more?
Just out of curiosity, how many more RPG companies will be putting their back catalogs on RPGnow?
James was at origins and talked to a lot of people. I wonder how many he was able to sell on putting up (or putting together) PDFs for sale at RPGNow.
I'll say one thing for James -- he;s the only Forge member with anything approaching a dominant market positiopn.
On 7/1/2003 at 2:30am, jdagna wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
Michael Hopcroft wrote: The key to success in business, I was told, was to offer something to the customer that nobody else can. This could be a product nobody else has, superior service, a location that is easier to reach -- the important thing is that you need an advanatge of some sort to prosper.
This model of "cooperative competition" that seems to be prevelant in the RPG business, as fostered by things like the Open Gaming Liicense for D20, would be alien to him.
Your teacher was right, but the OGL concept would not be foreign to him. You have to understand that RPG products simultaneously compete and complement each other all the time.
Let's say you make mustard. If another company floods the market with cheap hot dogs, you jump for joy - more hot dogs sold means more mustard sold and you're happy. These are complementary products. If another company floods the market with mustard, you're looking at competition, which is generally problematic because two mustards are substitutes for each other*
Looking at RPGs, let's compare two Shoujo RPGs. Clearly they're competing on some level, and if you have a better one, you're in a better position than if you don't. However, there's also a complementary element. Players may buy BOTH games because they like Shoujo so much, or because they want to use your characters and adventures in the other system (or vice versa). Players are fairly savvy when it comes to converting ideas between different sources.
As a sci-fi player, I can assure you that I use Star Wars, Robotech, Paranoia, Shadowrun and the ALIENS RPG as resources in every sci-fi game I play - they just have lots of interesting ideas that can be easily converted.
You seem convinced that you can't compete with these new releases; you know your product and market better than I, so I won't disagree with you. However, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Seriously. Consider how you can leverage your position to market your products as supplements or additions to the competition. If you have a better product, you may generate quite a few fanboys; if not, you should still have a healthy source of sales.
I think your business teacher probably taught something else - EVERYTHING is an opportunity. You have to think in terms of how this is an opportunity and react accordingly.
* This isn't even always true. If you competitor raises the public's general level of demand for mustard, like Starbucks did with coffee, then it's actually good for both of you.
On 7/1/2003 at 11:20am, Michael S. Miller wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
Hi, Michael.
Just a thought with no business theory to back it up: How many of your previous customers do you suppose were of the following attitude: "I love anime. I love RPGs. I want to buy an anime RPG. However, I refuse to buy print RPGs. I will only buy PDFs. Therefore, although I might want to buy BESM, it is only available in print, so I might as well make do with this HeartQuest thing, since it's the only anime RPG that's available as PDF." I'd think not so many. And those are the only customers who are threatened by the entry of GoO into the PDF marketplace.
My point is that you've always been competing with GoO, simply by producing an anime product. And, from the fact that you continue to have new releases, you've been doing a fine job in competing with them. Just keep up the good work!
On 7/1/2003 at 3:09pm, ADGBoss wrote:
Ride their Coat Tails
Michael H
If I were you (or in a position to do so myself) I would ALSO plunk down a Free PDF sometime in July. As has been mentioned this is an oppurtunity for you to drum up some business for yourself around a small bit of fan faire for GoO.
Here are a couple of ideas:
-A Free PDF with a few basics of all your games and maybe some very basic rules set.
-A Free Adventure that is downloadable and screams Read me! or Play me!
your also well within your rights to have a small press release to inform the general public what your doing and whats going on. Even if your not making direct cha-ching from the PDF your making people even more aware of who you are and your quality of work.
Just my 2 Lunars
Sean
On 7/1/2003 at 3:48pm, xiombarg wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
I'd agree that's an excellent idea. FUDGE is already free on the net, so you can create a HeartQuest Lite handout that points to FUDGE for more detail, whetting appetites and providing more detail in a freebie than one normally can.
On 7/1/2003 at 8:55pm, rpghost wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
Michael Hopcroft wrote:
Some people say there is only so much money out there in the RPG market, and any money that one company receives is taken away from another -- especially in a niche genre like aniime.
I forget who originally coined this... I think it was Morrus at EN World and it made logical sense enough for me not to put up with it. Not to take it laying down. Not to let it be the case. So I've made efforts through ads, membership promotions, CD Demos, conventions, and other marketing to increase our the gross revenue of RPGNow. Which is after all the limiting factor in the eyes of the people making these statements.
Here are two growth charts for the last 12 months from RPGNow.
[img]http://www.rpgnow.com/gross_graph.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.rpgnow.com/customer_graph.jpg[/img]
I plan to hand out 1000 demo CD's at GenCon. We're on a 10,000 circulation demo that Twin Rose did. Also, 90% of all the vendors I spoke to at Origins intend to do something with RPGNow.com in the near future.
James
On 8/2/2003 at 7:08am, Michael Hopcroft wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
xiombarg wrote: I'd agree that's an excellent idea. FUDGE is already free on the net, so you can create a HeartQuest Lite handout that points to FUDGE for more detail, whetting appetites and providing more detail in a freebie than one normally can.
HeartQuest Lite has been on RPGnow.com for three weeks and been the subject of almost 100 downloads. That has not, however, led to people coming to me in droves to pick up copies of the ful games, although at one point I had someone asking me on a tri-Stat mailing list why I wasn't usign BESM.
I don't know whether HQLite is a success or a failure yet. All depnends on whether it serves as effective advertising. So far, since I haven;t seen any sort of upswing in sales, I'm inclined towards the latter. I have a feeling my entire business has been smothered by GOO's entry into the e-book market. Ever since they signed on I've gotten barely a nibble from customers. I made just enoough that I'll get a check next month.
I hope things pick up in August....
On 8/2/2003 at 1:11pm, rpghost wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
You have to also keep in mind that you probably sold to most of our customers that are interested already. So GOO sending NEW anime customers are way can only help.
Also, too many publishers just rely un us (RPGNow) to promote for them and get them sales... it doesn't always work that way, esp for older products. You need to hit up the USENET news groups, other anime forums, etc etc... get people hyped about your product THEN tell them to go to us to buy.
In a nut shell, a publisher still has to advertise even if they are in a mall full of shoppers.
James
On 8/2/2003 at 6:35pm, Hardpoint wrote:
RE: The competition has entered my turf!
The freebie PDF route is how I plan to introduce players to Realms of Wonder. I will be making a PDF of a lite version of the rules along with several adventures that use those rules for play. Characters will be pregenerated (I'm saving character gen for the full version of the rules) and simplified for play using my JumpStart Edition of the game. This model for getting people interested stems right from the video game industry in the form of Free Demos.
Hey, the freebie version of TROS got me interested in its play style. Gamers are creatures of habit, one of those habits being collection. However, some are also cheap, as typically only the older gamers can afford to buy games willy nilly. But older gamers tend to have less time to play, life getting in the way and all. So in either case, FREE is attractive, as both type of gamers, those with little money and those with little time, can get a taste of your game without a huge expenditure of time and money. Once you've got them hooked, they will buy your game.