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Topic: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)
Started by: Malechi
Started on: 7/2/2003
Board: The Riddle of Steel


On 7/2/2003 at 7:26am, Malechi wrote:
Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Last night I kicked off an idea that has been stewing around in my head since I first saw TROS. Based off the Blade of the Immortal manga series, Kurosawa films and with a heavy dose of Cyberpunk attitude, the "genre" of Katanapunk was born in the wee hours of the day before the game started..at about 4am to be precise. I'll put the basic primer to the setting below so you can get a feel for what I was trying to create, then follow up post about the session itself, which was brief, yet cool.


==========================================
Katanapunk!


A game of blood, honour and attitude!

“We’ll make the sky rain blood!” – Manji, Mugen no Juunin (Blade of the Immortal)


“From youth my heart has been inclined toward the Way of The Sword. My first duel was when I was thirteen…” - Miyamoto Musashi, Kensai


“Dying without achieving your goals... or living on for years and realizing you will never achieve them -- which is worse?” – Rin Asano, Mugen no Juunin (Blade of the Immortal)


KATANAPUNK! is a game of fast and furious combat, driving passions, love, honour, blood and steel. Set in a fictional Tokugawa Japan around the year 1792, the world of Katanapunk is littered with swordsmen, ronin and broken dreams. Schools of swordsmanship sprung into existence like no other era during the reign of the Tokugawa family. With inter-clan warfare almost non-existant, the only way samurai and ronin could use their prowess with the sword was to establish organised schools, teaching their ancient traditions. In our version of this period, traditional sword schools are being overshadowed by newer, more aggressive schools, run by the rejects of samurai society, the ronin, and those who previously would never had the chance to learn the art of the sword. These lean and hungry underclass weapon-masters use exotic weapons and techniques that throw the old-school styles into disarray. These Katanapunks live fast and die young, laying everything on the line in a bold attempt to make their way in Edo, a city of over a million people. The emergence of the gun has arrived and some have even integrated this into their styles but the blade still rules the day and no honour is gained from shooting someone dead.

The game borrows heavily from influences such as films by Kurosawa Akira, the Blade of the Immortal manga series, modern Cyberpunk and many other manga sources. Wise-cracking, modern slang-using protagonists are the mainstay of Katanapunk characters. Mixing English and Japanese names is common and style always takes precedence over historical accuracy. The same goes for weaponry. Just because there were never any double-bladed katana, or three section yari/double-ended three-sectioned naginata doesn’t mean your character can’t yield one here. However, even with that in mind, some things still remain the same. Non-samurai are still, strictly speaking, not allowed to wear weapons, and most certainly not the Daisho. Other factors to think about is the grimy reality of a politically corrupt city. Dealing with the seamy underbelly of Tokugawa-era Edo with its Yakuza and corrupt politicians alike makes for a dark and twisted game at times, but one that is all the more interesting, and no less intense than any game of Cyberpunk or Spycraft need be.

Money is always a concern for these up-and-comers, so characters and schools find themselves doing missions for the upper classes much in the same way as a modern Cyberpunk team, or even a ninja team from historical fiction might do. These missions range from assassination, to simple spying, to outright warfare. Foremost in the minds of the kenjutsu school however, is the honour and success of the school. Canvassing for students, standing up to challenges, challenging other schools and breaking even are all essential. In the mean time, characters need lives away from the school and with a million other souls in a city like 1792 Edo, what character wouldn’t get himself into all sorts of trouble, romance or intrigue?

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On 7/2/2003 at 7:44am, Malechi wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Ok...thats the primer. Shortish but it sums it up. I decided, that to mirror the idea that schools were sometimes quite different in terms of technique, that the players could create their own school, and therefore proficiencies to go with it. One player wanted a double knife school, not unlike Kali/Arnis/Escrima I think, with "sticky blade" techniques etc, but probably a lot more flashy than the real world thing. I gave him the Dagger proficiency to work with, he added Bind & Strike and a couple of other things and was done. Others played with the Rapier proficiency as the basis for their Katana style, others thought that the Longsword/Greatsword proficiency suited them better. Others still went for polearm for naginata. As for weapon stats, I took the Scimitar or Sabre for the Katana. We're going to iron it out later but I think it suits well, even if the weapons are drastically different.

All in all the flavour of the setting was captured really well by freeing up the proficiencies a bit. One thing to remember also, these guys had never played TROS before, and one player had never played an RPG before (besides CRPGs). The learning curve wasn't as steep as I expected, and in the spirit of the genre, the bloodshed began early.

We were going for a Narrativey style game so I asked them to write a group Kicker (easier and faster than getting them to make one up each). They got the idea quickly and basically we started the game with them eating breakfast after a hard nights training when someone gets thrown through the wall of their mess-hall at the dojo. It turns out its their sensei, an old man who spews forth mystical teachings which they've deciphered as "The Way". As the dust settles they see outside in the courtyard a group of students from the Tatsuma School, known for their use of the Tetsubo (Iron Club) and other nastiness, linked heavily to the Underworld. Jumping straight into action the characters attacked in true D&D fashion. Oh boy...were they in for a surprise.

They continued attacking for a few rounds each, one, using a manga-Maul type weapon, was going for the guy with a bit Tetsubo, one used sneak to get around the side of the dojo and outflank a lone straggler, on stood there posturing, facing off with a katana-wielding dude, and one, using Katana and Jitte ran in. No successful hits for a few rounds and the players were thinking it was like D&D... until.. the Katana and Jitte player takes a level three to the thigh. Play stopped..dead...silent as the description hit them. Leg broken, heavy blood loss, knockdown possible....

They blinked.....

"THATS SO FRICKEN COOL!"

and the battle raged on, this time with intent and passion and gritty determidness. It worked well in a visual sense. The Scene was good. The PCs managed to take them out nicely though, especially the sneaky sneaky Double-knife wielding guy who took out three with his surprise tactics.. at one point jumping down from a tree between two astounded looking (Surprised) opponents, splitting his dicepool and attacking both at once with a knife to the throat each, both were level five wounds (Cerebellum hit, death)...

As it turns out though..the guys they attacked merely saw their drunk sensei stumble through the wall, and thought it funny. They were actually carrying a message of invitation to witness the other schools challenge to a third school. Having killed them all though, their honour dictates action...next session we're picking up with them trying to figure out waht the hell to do...

Overall, the visual and tactile nature of combat really struck a chord with these guys. Disgruntled D&D players really like it...and the SA's that were brought into play really worked well too...however the real icing on the cake was when I exlpained that SA's weren't just like Spycraft Action Dice.. but they were your XP as well....they're hooked....expect another four copies to be sold soon!

cheers

Jason King

Perth, WA.

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On 7/2/2003 at 1:54pm, Wolfen wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

That sounds really awesome, honestly. Partly in that it went so well, and the setting itself. I certainly approve.

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On 7/2/2003 at 2:33pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

They killed the wrong guys...you don't get more punk than that.

And the fact that they did it to themselves without being manipulated into it is just priceless.

There's nothing like a blood feud between the asshole aggressor and the innocently wronged party...when it dawns on you YOU are the asshole aggressor...

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On 7/2/2003 at 2:54pm, Malechi wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Thanks both of you for the encouraging comments. If there is suitable interest, I can post more information regarding schools and proficiencies. I really think this is a setting/sub-genre of gaming that I'm yet to see done elsewhere (I'm probably wrong) and hell, it just reeked of coolness on the night.

Jason :)

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On 7/2/2003 at 2:56pm, Jake Norwood wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

MINI SUPPLEMENT!!!

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On 7/2/2003 at 3:06pm, Malechi wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Hey Jake,

well..Mini-supplement eh? *sweat drips from forehead* I can certainly be convinced to devote a ridiculous amount of my time to this, just because I love the idea so much. Email me with details about size, submission guidelines and anything I might need to know and I'll get this baby kicking.

One thing before we go ahead though. This setting relies on only the faintest skerrick of historical accuracy and a big fat wad of attitude, coolness and action. So.. no debates about longsword vs katana or anything like that..if that makes an y sense.

Let me know if you're seriously interested (I'm assuming you are because "MINI SUPPLEMENT!" seems to be quite enthusiastic.. ) :)

cheers


Jason King :)

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On 7/2/2003 at 5:44pm, 6inTruder wrote:
KatanaPunk!

Let me know if you're seriously interested (I'm assuming you are because "MINI SUPPLEMENT!" seems to be quite enthusiastic.. ) :)

I'm not Jake, but I am seriously interested ^_^!

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On 7/2/2003 at 6:44pm, Wolfen wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

I'm sure he's interested. Jake has, at some time in the past, stated that he was adopting the same policy as Ron Edwards on mini-supplements. I'm sure that the particulars are drafted up somewhere, perhaps on the Sorcerer website.

::peruses a moment::

Hmm. I saw a mention of it on the Adept Press website, but was unable to actually find the policy. Jake? Ron?

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On 7/2/2003 at 8:33pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Basically the game author has right of approval, and the materials must be sold off their site. But otherwise the profits belong to the writer. Can't get a cooler deal than that.

Mike

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On 7/2/2003 at 10:24pm, Wolfen wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

I thought the creator of the supplement could sell it off their own site, as Jared does with... Schism.

Also, that's assuming the creator of the supplement decides to sell it. I don't suppose too many would try it themselves, without some modicum of notoriety like Memento Mori Theatricks and Anvilwerks have.

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On 7/3/2003 at 4:52pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

The sales point isn't limited to the site. It just must include the site. IIRC.

I find your comment about reqiring notoriety to be disturbing, Lance. How do you get notoriety until you publish something? You're making getting published a Catch 22. I'd say that a good mini-supplement is as good a place to start as any, and better than most. Take Scott Knipe who is only published via the mini-supplement program, and Raven, too. Again, it'll require the OK of the game designer, so presumably you won't be allowed to sell a leaker, anyhow.

Further, the program does not allow for free distribution. That is, sure you can give away a supplement from your own site (assuming that you take care about copyright, or don't care). But the program itself is meant to expand the line of legitimate materials available for the game. And to project that image, you have to charge money (interestingly).

Design it. Publish it yourself. It's the Indie way. The mini-supplement program just makes it easier than ever.

(I'm talking for a lot of people here who I don't represent, and I could have parts of this wrong. I you want the real deal, you ought to talk to them directly.)

Mike

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On 7/3/2003 at 5:01pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

To follow up on the last post, and to get the thread back on track, did you do anything else, Malechi, to differentiate schools other than using different proficiencies? Were you at least making a lot of Analyze Style rolls?

Mike

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On 7/3/2003 at 6:53pm, Malechi wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Hi Mike,

Were you at least making a lot of Analyze Style rolls?


This is something I think will play a large part, that and notoriety, the Taunt "manoeuvre", Ridicule, Ettiquette: School (a big one!) and contested WP rolls (The classic Samurai showdown). I'm currently compiling as much setting information as I can to seed thought with, after that I'll be looking at the mechanical aspects and most certainly the non-combat skills which I can mould to the setting or at least put a slightly different spin on.

While the battle we had in game, had little time to roll an analyse style skill check (you need a fair bit of time if I remember correctly), I was calling on Knowledge, Lore and Etiquette rolls (not that they stopped the party from wholesale slaughtering the messengers). With some development (second session on Friday night) it should become a pretty central aspect of the game apart from combat and looking damn cool.

I was playing around with the idea of swapping out or adding in more SA's to match things up nicely with the "genre". Honour was an obvious choice, some kind of Style, or Coolness factor was also discussed the other night, but I'm not sure if this is really needed. The other SA discussed was some kind of "Ki" SA.

What are people’s thoughts on Honour, or any other for that matter, being added to the SA choice list? Can other SAs cover these areas if defined clearly?

Jason King

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On 7/3/2003 at 7:02pm, Paka wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Malechi wrote: Hi Mike,




What are people’s thoughts on Honour, or any other for that matter, being added to the SA choice list? Can other SAs cover these areas if defined clearly?

Jason King


I think Honor would be a brilliant SA, but perhaps it could be an SA that would actually go down if you messed up...but maybe not.

I hope to see this blossom into its own mini-supp.

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On 7/3/2003 at 7:39pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Drive: Personal Honor

Sounds simple enough to me.

And I would threaten to drop it on failures given the Japanese phyche. That is, Samurai would see failure as a personal inability to do what had to be done to motivate themselves to succeed. And as such there would be a tendency for self-fulfilling prophecy with the SA dropping as the Samurai lost faith in himself.

Hence the result of losing all Honor being the need to kill oneself as deficient. The Samurai has no self-worth at that point, no Honor, and can only redeem himself with an act that proves that he has the motivation to do the honorable thing. Not to say that all Samurai respond this way (or certainly that a PC would have to commit seppaku), but that it indicates that there is a psychological link between Success and Honor that would make one a requirement of the other.

This is very cool. Remember Honor would represent the character's own perception of himself. The question of how others percieved his honor would depend on what information they had on the Samurai in question. Thus if a villain had described how the PC had run from a battle (in order to claim the honor of defeating the enemy for himself), the PC would be percieved as Honorless by those who believed the story while the PC himself would still have the Drive for Honor. In fact it might go up in such a situation as the character would want to redeem himself.

OTOH, Honor is a social thing. That is, if a character was seen as honorless, he would in fact feel like he had less Honor. So perhaps the Trait would vary with perception, but the results would be different. That is, a Samurai who know he had acted without Honor should just lose the SA. For a Samurai who had lost his Honor because his reputation had been smeared would just have the points transfered to a new SA, something like Drive: Regain lost Honor. These are similar, but slightly different.

Anyhow, play fast and loose with it, and it ought to be a blast.

Mike

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On 7/3/2003 at 7:40pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

I think perhaps that each style could have its own special SA.

One style might have KI as an SA that allows them to draw on inner mumbo jumbo. One style might actual center on rage, and give a special effect to using anger oriented Passion SAs. One style might be devoted to inner calm and actually lose access to special maneuvers if the character ever has a Passion SA. One style might have "Spirit of Ancestors" SA which represents aid in battle from actual intervention of the spirits of their ancestors, which can only be increased through special ritual and communing with the dead. Another style might have an SA that is tied to a sacred spot and is always at 5 if the character is in that location but declines the farther from it he goes. This style might even have different circles of mastery with each higher level being a progressively broader spot (low level = this dojo is the spot, high level = this city, then this country, etc).

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On 7/3/2003 at 7:56pm, cruciel wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Bushido Virtues:

Chugi: Loyalty/Devotion
Gi: Rectitude/Justice
Jin: Benevolence/Compassion/Love
Makoto: Sincerity/Honesty/Veracity
Meiyo: Honor/Glory
Rei: Respect/Courtesy/Politeness/Etiquette
Yu: Valor/Courage/Bravery/Heroism

The traditional values don't seem like they'd quite mesh with the setting you've got. This is just food for thought on SA's.

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On 7/3/2003 at 8:34pm, Ben Lehman wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Style or "Coolness:"
Adopt Sorcerer style bonuses for stylish play:
-2 dice to generic actions ("I swing to region 4, left side.")
+0 dice for well-described actions ("I twist my sword around and slam it towards her left shoulder.")
+1 dice for cool action ("I parry with the center of my handle, letting the force of her blow spin my sword up down towards her left shoulder.)
+3 for REALLY cool action ("I deflect her blade off to the right side, pause for a moment in which our eyes meet. Then, I smile and whip my sword down at her left shoulder.")
+2 additional dice for a good speech. ("I say, 'This sword was forged with the flames of a dragon and the tears of a goddess. It has both served and killed emperors, its wielders have known both honor and defeat. It is hardly worth of your brigand blood.' Then I sheathe the sword and punch him in the face.")

Honor:
This can be
Faith: Code of Bushido
Drive: Follow the Code of Bushido
Passion: Duty to the Code of Bushido

Qi:
Spiritual Attributes ARE your Qi. You don't need a seperate, generic ability for it. If you want a seperate attribute for mystics to emit glowing auras with, then call it "Qi" and have it use the same rules as luck, with a different descriptive flavor.

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On 7/3/2003 at 8:50pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Cool ideas, Ben.

Jason, that's a great list for SAs. Just have Honor be the extent to which one is seen as being committed to the various elements. The character, however, will only be able to focus on some; likely those that fit into the game.

Don't forget the crucially important Drive: Serve Lord Honorably. Ronin will not have this, and, hence, have much less Honor. But Ronin are soooo fricken cool. :-)

Mike

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On 7/4/2003 at 5:30pm, Thorsten wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

When could we expect to have this cute baby in Germany?

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On 7/4/2003 at 5:46pm, 6inTruder wrote:
those who ride the wave

But Ronin are soooo fricken cool. :-)

"Cool" in that whole "Hobo with a sword" sort of way ^_^

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On 7/4/2003 at 8:56pm, Malechi wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Hey guys,

Katanapunk! is kicking off in the development stakes, I've assembled a crack crew of keen writers and an artist who'll all be working with me to produce the mini-supplement (well..crack or cracked.. you decide!).

I can't really give you a date on this baby yet as it was an idea that was thrown together on Monday night. However, I'm hoping to have something to send Jake (outline) soon.

In the meantime, remember that Katanapunk! is all about the down-and-out, not the high-flying samurai. Those who live under the footsteps of the high and mighty but have the hope and desire to rise up and challenge the lucky few in the later stages of Tokugawa Japan.

Ronin and the rising "middle" and "lower" classes are the staple for characters. Those with the lean and hungry, raw talent, passion and drive to get ahead. The essential elements of a good Cyberpunk game and Katana Wielding kenjutsu students.

Keep the ideas coming, and email me if you're interested in helping out. All applications considered, but those with an eye for style, flair, daring and the "genre" we're trying to flesh out will be the ones given the second look. Also, historical accuracy isn't the key here, just fun fun fun.. :)

anyway.. let me know if you'd like to help out..

cheers

jason king

manji @ bigpond.net.au

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On 7/5/2003 at 3:15pm, Waiwode wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

Honour?

The Big SA, in my opinion, is Duty. Duty to Liege and Duty to Family form an excellent point for stories.

Is it better to serve a poor master well, or ?

Compassion, Drive, Passions and Destiny all have to stack up against Duty.

Doug.

...Duty is a Mountain, Life is but a Feather.

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On 7/5/2003 at 4:34pm, Jake Norwood wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

I agree, actually. Duty is much more important. Hagakure, and the movie "Ghost Dog" are required for something like this. Preferably the book. It's a wonderful read regardless.

Jake

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On 7/7/2003 at 7:39pm, Vanguard wrote:
RE: Katanapunk! ...blood, honour, steel...attitude!(LONG)

I genuinely love this idea. If that makes sense, I can see it - the ways in which a system devoted to the vulgar coolness of rough, disenfranchised ronin-types might encourage that cool style of play. A game driven by the art of looking cool. The conflict between asserting presence / bravado and the desire to avoid confrontation. Its more akin to the blustery lifestyle of the criminal fraternity than the gruff, transparent Samurai we're used to.

I'd say SAs like Status (Maintaining an image), Asthetic (trying to pull off something cool, etc... might be more appropriate.

Perhaps a few people on this board have latched onto that more typical approach to playing a samurai; the inhuman machine devoted to their lord, an extension of a liege's will, that meticulous adherant to Bushido. Malechi's contribution sounds it concerns more those living in the shadow of that great ethos, unable to really conform or achieve those lofty ideals, or those who give the appearance of conforming only so long as it benefits them.

If I was not lazy ( hehe) I'd offer my services as artist (that assuming the art would be of a suitable quality, Malechi). In my head, I've got sum wicked pieces already ;)

Good luck on your endeavours,

Marc

ps. I've entertained the idea of developing something along similar-ish lines. Set in a more typical medieval European setting, it revolves around freelance mercenary adventurers. I was trying to get the richness of the high-fantasy D&D world but contrive some plausability ;).

I won't go on too long, nor elaborate on the mythos. What we have is a world repleat with all the trappings of conventional fantasy; wizards, demons, priests, warriors, magic and (more importantly) magic items, etc... It is a highly institutionalised society. Practise of both magic and worship is highly controlled. These centres of civilisation are saturated with all of this. With channeled power. Beyond the borders, in the wild lands, ancient ruins and powerful beasts roam unmolested.

The cyberpunkiness cums in the form of bound spells and commissioned blessings. Everything is available for the right price, and the appropriate licenses. And should a particular license be out of reach, there is a wealthy and resourceful criminal underground by which more elusive contracts may be acquired. As long as the risk is worth it, and the contact is trustworthy.

A sort of melange of Gibson's 'Neuromancer' and Fritz 'Fahfrd and Gray Mouser' series. Hackers are effecively replaced with mages, corporates by churches and Guilds, drugs by psychics. It is a world where the equivalent of the twentieth level warrior can achieve that near-godliness. As long as the price is right. And he don't mind standing out like a lighting beacon to any passing mage.

It is the D&D style where play is driven by the desire to acquire. But in this respect, the benefits are neither aboslute nor pernament. Being paid-for services, they are susceptible to influence by society, by money, by the person conferring a new 'Trick'. They can be discovered and banished, and the PC reprimanded. 'That's twenty years in the oubliettes for that highly unsanctioned piece of enchantment on ya, mate'. They can be, in themselves, symbols of status. It is not the obligatory + 20 HP per level, +1 Thaco, and new skill.

PLagiarised on Shadowrun, I will admit. But they nicked theirs from Fantasy to begin with.

Oops. Sorry. Rambled on a tad just then.

Bye bye

Message 7040#74047

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