(I'm not sure if this is the proper forum to ask this question, it might be more appropriate for RPG Theory. If so, I'll be glad to move it.)

The Mridangam thread made me question to what extreme game terminology can be customized for a setting before it becomes more of a hassle than it's worth. While unique game terms can really help get into the feel of a game, at a certain point I've found many gamers to revert to more familiar jargon, i.e. "Strength," "Con," "Dex," etc.

To bring this issue into focus, I've tried giving the six basic stats in PUNK more "gritty" names than the relatively sterile "standard" terms.

BEEF Physical strength and toughness. Beef is relevant during physical actions requiring brute force, stamina or endurance. The stat also comes into play when fighting off diseases and poisons or healing injuries.

GREASE Physical speed, agility and dexterity. Grease is relevant when dodging, fighting, running, handling delicate items, or using sleight-of-hand. In a fight, grease might come into effect when determining how fast you can physically react.

BRAINS Intellect, memory, willpower and general education. This is relevant in actions requiring you to learn, study, or apply something from your reservoir of knowledge. It also applies to when you're trying to solve out mysteries, puzzles or problems. This also comes into play when your character is attempting to withstand mental strain from torture, brainwashing or, what the hell, psionic attacks.

SKILLZ Quickness of thought, mental reflexes, sensory acuity. This stat is relevant using your senses, thinking quickly, and keeping your focus in stressful, chaotic situations.

FACE Appearance, personality and social adeptness. Face is relevant in social situations like intimidation, fast-talking, lying, diplomacy, manipulation or bargaining. It is also relevant in situations requiring expression and empathy. This stat only represents your character's personality insofar is he might use it to do something. Personality is the province of role-playing, not game terms.

JUICE The intangible traits that don?t fit into the previous stats but which nevertheless afford your character a certain amount of respect, admiration, animosity or fear from her peers. In realistic settings, your character's juice might be vast wealth, being a royal heir, connections to a network of powerful people, or the loyalty of a gang. In more fantastic settings, juice might be superhumanity, access to advanced technology or outright magic.

I agree that skillz seems a weak name - though its interesting how the 'z' changes it from being "Known abilities" to how on the ball you are. Comes from l33tspeak I'd imagine. Anyway.

I'd rename Skillz to Wits (quick witted, witty, got their wits about them) - or maybe guile. More games need a stat named 'guile'.

Juice I like, but Mojo springs to mind as an alternative.

Grease I like. Full stop. It's skirting the line of style over functionality, but it's too cool to drop.

Alternatives for brains... Smarts, Noggin', Noodle (thats using your noodle), Savvy, Reason. The last two don't include the willpower aspect though. Can't come up with anything spectactular here but Brains sounds fine to me.

Oh, and Face's description should explicitely mention respect since thats the obvious meaning of the word.

gobi wrote: I was curious whether the Forge-ites think this terminology is placing so much emphasis on style that it's no longer intuitive and functional.)

gobi wrote:
More importantly, I was curious if anyone had suggestions for better, more PUNK-ish game terms. (I'm not very enamored with "skillz" or "brains.")

Thomas Tamblyn wrote: I'd rename Skillz to Wits (quick witted, witty, got their wits about them) - or maybe guile. More games need a stat named 'guile'.

Thomas Tamblyn wrote: Oh, and Face's description should explicitely mention respect since thats the obvious meaning of the word.

Cemendur wrote: Raw Power (As in the Iggy Pop Song) Beef excludes the Vegan Punks who are becoming more common these days.

Cemendur wrote: TFY (Think for Yourself) Alternately, "Free Thought"

Cemendur wrote: DIY (Do It Yourself; This is also a measure of ethics. DIY is the punk rock ethic.)
Punk Points

http://www.punkinternational.com/dictionary.html

Please oh please don't use 'Emo' for Willpower...*shudder* hehe

gobi wrote: I was curious whether the Forge-ites think this terminology is placing so much emphasis on style that it's no longer intuitive and functional. More importantly, I was curious if anyone had suggestions for better, more PUNK-ish game terms. (I'm not very enamored with "skillz" or "brains.")

Raw Power If you are doing the WW quote's thing. Iggy could be quoted.

Beef is does not literally mean strength, its a metaphor for strength. Then again so is "raw" (being uncooked meat). This is similar to how many diverse NW Native American groups have salmon as a symbol for vitality or Great Plains natives have Buffalo (American Bison) as a symbol for vitality. My vegan friends do use tofu or soy as a metaphor for strength (one going so far as to have a tattoo of the Chinese word for soy on his chest), while my vegetarian friends usually don't. I can think of an animal sustenance equivelant for punks. Chaos punks (as opposed to Chaos Theory Punks) would use beer and generic cigarettes as a symbol for substinance, while Ciderpunks would use cider (or the apple). . . Food Not Bombs is a symbol of sustenance for many squatterpunks. They use the carrot in a fist symbol. Of course they serve vegan soup. Then again, a "beef" attribute would be better than "soup" attribute. I'll have to ponder punk sustenance more thoroughly. Then again, how much do I really want to meditate on punk sustenance?

P.S. How about a squash attribute? As in "squash the state". Ouch. O.k. O.k. I am not a pun fan. Really.

TFY (Think for Yourself) Alternately, "Free Thought"

Excellent.

We must be on the same page, I'm actually already using those terms in the game. Good ideas all around.

Except for skillz, the original attibute list looks like a typical meal my great aunt would eat. (Brains being brains of a calf. Face being scrapple)

Cemendur wrote:

We must be on the same page, I'm actually already using those terms in the game. Good ideas all around.

I am curious, in what way are you using DIY and Punk Points if not for Skillz and Juice?

Since Mridangam inspired this, I feel I have to at least dip a toe into the discussion.

One thing I firmly believe about game terminology is that it should mean what it appears to mean; I'm very uncomfortable with words that already have meanings being co-opted to serve other purposes. It's important to think about the way your terminology will affect the interpretation of the game mechanic it represents.

So say you do use the term "punk points". If I were in your shoes, I would stop and think hard about the usages of punk points, and be sure that they can only be applied to punky things. Similarly, TFY would only apply in attempts to find a creative solution - non-creative solutions would be assumed within the capabilities of characters, and thus less cool. I totally support the use of subcultural or obscure terms, too, in their elements (Mridangam is a big, big example of this), but they should, to an informed reader, illuminate rather than obscure.

So, those are my thirty-seven cents.

gobi wrote: More importantly, I was curious if anyone had suggestions for better, more PUNK-ish game terms. (I'm not very enamored with "skillz" or "brains.")

Shreyas Sampat wrote: they should, to an informed reader, illuminate rather than obscure.

rafael wrote: I'm trying to think of a usage of skillz/skeelz in a punk milieu, and can't come up with one. Can't think of a punk rock equivalent, either.

When I say that, I mean that to a reader familiar with the source material, not the game, the usage of the term in the game should be quite transparent. I don't believe that you need to include explanations of a term's use in the source in one specific case: that where only insiders are expected to be interested anyway. This is the case with Mridangam, perhaps not with PUNK's broader appeal. The learning curve is not a worrying point, IMO; using new terms to outsiders will change the slope less than the bump that misuse of terms will create for insiders.

Your explanation of punk points in psipunk is exactly what I mean by good usage of terminology: they create weird, genre-appropriate punky effects.

Shreyas Sampat wrote: Your explanation of punk points in psipunk is exactly what I mean by good usage of terminology: they create weird, genre-appropriate punky effects.

I think "The Man" is dang appropriate. If you're worried about gender issues, you could always take the issue some other game books have taken, and refer to players as "he" and the gm as "she."

Which could be interesting, saying something like, "After The Man decides on a scenario, she..."

gobi wrote: I was considering calling the GM "The Man" as in "the Man's trying to bring us down!". . .

First of all a lot of great comments from different people. They undoubtedly color my own comments, so thanks a lot collectively.

BEEF Physical strength and toughness. Beef is relevant during physical actions requiring brute force, stamina or endurance. The stat also comes into play when fighting off diseases and poisons or healing injuries.

GREASE Physical speed, agility and dexterity. Grease is relevant when dodging, fighting, running, handling delicate items, or using sleight-of-hand. In a fight, grease might come into effect when determining how fast you can physically react.

BRAINS Intellect, memory, willpower and general education. This is relevant in actions requiring you to learn, study, or apply something from your reservoir of knowledge. It also applies to when you're trying to solve out mysteries, puzzles or problems. This also comes into play when your character is attempting to withstand mental strain from torture, brainwashing or, what the hell, psionic attacks.

SKILLZ Quickness of thought, mental reflexes, sensory acuity. This stat is relevant using your senses, thinking quickly, and keeping your focus in stressful, chaotic situations.

FACE Appearance, personality and social adeptness. Face is relevant in social situations like intimidation, fast-talking, lying, diplomacy, manipulation or bargaining. It is also relevant in situations requiring expression and empathy. This stat only represents your character's personality insofar is he might use it to do something. Personality is the province of role-playing, not game terms.

JUICE The intangible traits that don?t fit into the previous stats but which nevertheless afford your character a certain amount of respect, admiration, animosity or fear from her peers. In realistic settings, your character's juice might be vast wealth, being a royal heir, connections to a network of powerful people, or the loyalty of a gang. In more fantastic settings, juice might be superhumanity, access to advanced technology or outright magic.