Topic: Okay. Long and complicated.
Started by: permacultureguerilla
Started on: 7/19/2003
Board: Indie Game Design
On 7/19/2003 at 9:49am, permacultureguerilla wrote:
Okay. Long and complicated.
Well first off, I've been hoping to find a board like this for some time, and must have just not been looking right.
I am going nuts here. I feel like a cat on a nip-trip.
Anyways, role playing games themselves have never interested me. I played a bit of D&D, Star Wars, lots of White Wolf, and looked at a few others. Only white wolf kind of interested me.
But that didn't change my obsession with role playing itself. A game of infinite design. I've always been a writer-geek. My hands are glued to either keyboard or pen. I talked weeks in person with others of same interest but had no clue this exists.
So I'll just give my quick angles now . . .
My designing has become very white-wolf like because I've been immersed in it. Particularly Changeling: The Dreaming.
I've studied a lot of factual work too such as DNA. (I'd be happy to help with any biological technicalities!) I think my interest in science overcomes my lack of knowledge as of yet. My telling people helps me learn. The biology fix started with GURPS Bio-Tech
I'm also studying Robert Zubryn's Mars Direct project, trying to feel exactly what Mars Colonization will be.
Philosophy and accuracy are very important to me, if I can make a game. I like finding all those excuses: "This is why they didn't all develop that tech" etc. But I also need to say: "This is why these people are noble, why you should want their cause."
I like having actual quotes, and studied much on revolution.
Particularly, I want to develop games that more women would be interested in. I've seen how popular they get when that happens.
So, finally, like it's been suggested, I should probably give this in bits and pieces. Not spill the whole jar.
Another thing I'm throwing in is the serious issues in our society, which I've learned a bit about as well. I won't give detail. I can't picture such issues in a role playing game, but I'm wondering if someone can. Because I think it would be interesting to try. After all, don't we want to raise important issues and be realistic?
Either way, I'm hoping I didn't waste your time with that post (or put it in the wrong section, lol). I am REALLY glad to be here!
On 7/19/2003 at 9:58am, permacultureguerilla wrote:
RE: Okay. Long and complicated.
Sorry, a correction. It's greatly influenced by Changeling but I wrote a lot about vampires. I barely touch the White-wolf system but it has some "World of Darkness" feel. The character struggles as much in his head as in the world. More science, too.
On 7/19/2003 at 10:31am, Dumirik wrote:
RE: Okay. Long and complicated.
Welcome to the Forge!
Alright, you have expressed your views and concepts (and they are all pretty interesting), but what exactly do you want to do with these? How are you going to gell these into a coherant whole?
I particularly like the idea of a character who struggles as much in his head as in the world, I have always been a big fan of the tragic hero (or heroin, and I hope I spelt that right ;)), as well as the serious philosophical issues in society being presented. However, the kind of issues you want to present kind of depend on your current setting now don't they?
Look forwards to reading more of your ideas...
On 7/19/2003 at 4:14pm, Alan wrote:
Re: Okay. Long and complicated.
Hi Permacultureguerilla,
Welcome to the Forge.
(I grew up in Edmonton! What's your real name? Mine's Alan Barclay. Maybe we met? )
permacultureguerilla wrote:
Another thing I'm throwing in is the serious issues in our society, which I've learned a bit about as well. I won't give detail. I can't picture such issues in a role playing game, but I'm wondering if someone can. Because I think it would be interesting to try. After all, don't we want to raise important issues and be realistic?
Like Dumirik, I had some difficulty finding your intended question. I think you're asking "can an rpg address a social or environmental issue?" Is that right?
My short answer is yes, I believe so. While I haven't seen one that really made that it's purpose, there are many Indie games that do a similar thing for psychological issues - Sorcerer being the flagship.
The second question you have is "don't we want to raise important issues and be realistic?"
I actually found this a more interesting question for the assumption that, in order to address an important issue, a game must realistically reproduce some aspect of the real world.
In fact I would say that the best way for a game to highlight an issue is to be unrealistic! A game could waste a lot of text reproducing the fluctuations in spotted owl populations depending on player actions, but what's really important to making people feel and think about the issue of wildlife preservation would be giving them an emotional connection to the issue. Also, because RPG play is always an act of the imagination, it makes more impact if the issue is amplified, so it's brighter in the mindseye.
On 7/19/2003 at 5:03pm, permacultureguerilla wrote:
RE: Okay. Long and complicated.
Thanks, Alan and Dumrik!
I get really skippy with my comments sometimes, so it's hard to make all of it out.
My issue with the social aspects were that: I realize serious issues like war and pollution are involved a lot in games. And I love those games too. But no one really likes to go as dark as humanity really tends to go. I'll give you an example but I expect people to be ready for it.
Example: Shelley getting raped in The Crow.
I hate to bring that up. I mean, role playing games are important as a way of getting out of some of life's miserable truths. I'm just wondering if that sort of thing has been tried, though. A game immersed in the REAL pit of humanity.
Now I don't actually suggest the theme being people play antagonists become total perverts running around. But I'm just wondering how deeply that issue's been done? . . . and were the results anything but bad?
Mostly it's my way of saying: "It happens folks. We may as well ask ourselves how a fiction could deal with it at least somewheres in our universe." There's no way in hell I'd support designing one promoting such nonsense. But I'm just wondering if it's supposed to be an unspoken rule that no game does address those issues.
Suffice it to say, there are very few markets that would care to have such a game. Which is absolutely fine by me. It's just a bold question, and really on the side. I noticed that White Wolf has . . . just subtly hinted these issues.
"A beaten, abandoned child moans in her nightmares, pulling her cardboard box closer around her as she cries. Cityscape in the early winter." ---Changeling: The Dreaming Second Edition, pg 32: The world of Darkness. (That statement really hit me hard!)
I consider this a completely separate issue from my endeavors, however. My real intended game has absolutely squat to do with the above. I just wanted to ask if it's been brought up already, and I don't intend on dragging anyone through it.
So on a completely different subject:
Alan, you AND Todd McFarlane in the city 'o Champions? Very cool! Did you hang out at Whyte Knight? Did you know a couple named Rod and Patricia? (Great roleplayers, they made a clubhouse near Strathcona). Or did you do any live-action roleplaying in places such as at the Festival Place in Sherwood Park?
I have much much more to say. But I'll await comment.
I'll only use this thread to discuss "my game" now. And not such big issues.
On 7/19/2003 at 6:45pm, greyorm wrote:
RE: Okay. Long and complicated.
permacultureguerilla wrote: role playing games are important as a way of getting out of some of life's miserable truths. I'm just wondering if that sort of thing has been tried, though. A game immersed in the REAL pit of humanity.
Sorcerer is the game you have just described precisely -- produced by the father of the indie scene, Ron Edwards. (Hey, look, he moderates these boards, too!)
Or I consider him the father of it, at least -- I can't think of anyone else who has done as much for as long, or been as influential, for the idea of independent publishing in the role-playing community.
Anyways, Sorcerer is about just that: Humanity with a big "H" and all the horrible things we do to each other to get what we want, whether what we want is selfish or altruistic, and what it all means.
Now I don't actually suggest the theme being people play antagonists become total perverts running around. But I'm just wondering how deeply that issue's been done? . . . and were the results anything but bad?
Sex & Sorcery, the third supplement for Sorcerer is a work you will want to check out if you are at all interested in the idea of dealing with these really deep and touchy issues as a gaming group -- without everything blowing up in the group's face...and yes, protagonists in Sorcerer are total perverts (and worse).