Been working on the playtest version of Argonauts, but Ever-After keeps jumping to my frontal lobes and demanding attention. If you want info on the project's development so far check out http://1001.indie-rpgs.com/ever-after.html, which has links to all the previous threads. You shouldn't need it though, if you're just skimming.

New Conceptualization

The PCs of Ever-After are called "Masquers." A group of Masquers is called a "Troupe." Together, a Troupe tells stories.

The Masquers have no identity outside of the roles they create for themselves in stories. These roles are called "Masks." Without any Masks, a Masquer is simply a blank slate, a chunk of unformed primordial clay. Or, at least, that's what most people would have you believe.

Most (if not all) Masquers have a Primary Mask that defines their identity and names them. For instance, the example Troupe is made up of Scheherazade, Monkey, Persephone, and Anansi. Those are simply the Primary Masks that give the Masquers some sort of basic identity. Even outside of the stories they tell, most Masquers find it most comfortable to have Primary Masks between them. So Scheherazade is still Scheherazade whether she's in a story or not.

Or course, most Masquers are likely to have at least another half-dozen additional Masks in addition to their Primary one. Scheherazade, for instance, might have the Masks "Muse," "A Mystery Beneath the Surface," "Baghdad," "Bloody Tears," and "Journey by Night." These Masks are given Secondary or Tertiary status, but as long as she carries them around with her, they too help form the basis of her identity.

Additionally, while Masquers are involved in storymaking, they will likely take on up to a dozen temporary Masks that only last for the length of the story. After all, they may have to become spacemen or enchanted forests or gumshoe detectives or hurricanes in order to tell the stories they want to.

In between stories, Masquers have the ability to "juggle" their Masks, changing their identity by switching temporary Masks with Secondary or Tertiary ones, or even (in extreme cases) switching their Primary Masks with a Secondary one. In this way, the core of who a Masqer is changes over time, reflecting who they've been and the roles they've played.

Mechanical Conceptualization

The currency of storymaking is measured in "Drops." Drops of what? Blood, sweat, and tears. The yearning of the Masquer to become something. Masquers are artists and storytellers. If you weren't willing to give up Drops of your being in order for stories to come alive, you wouldn't have become a Masquer.

Nothing exists without sacrifice. A Mask is defined as anything that has been invested with Drops. If an idea or concept has at least one Drop devoted to it, it's a Mask. Mechanically, this is simple. While any Masquer can say, "There is a Princess in the land of Syria," no one can become that character until someone writes Princess of Syria on a notecard and puts one or more Drops on it (represented by stones). Once they do that, a Mask has been created and anyone who posesses is the Princess of Syria (in addition to whatever other identities they posess). This holds true for all Masks.

Anything with Drops is a Mask, but the Mask is only a channel through which the liquid of story is poured. Drops invested in a Mask are spent to use that Mask in storymaking. However, Masquers should be careful about spending the last Drop on a Mask, for that will end in the Mask's destruction. The same Mask can not be recreated once it has been destroyed. Similar ideas can arise, but never totally replace what was lost.

Spent Drops return to the common pool that the Troupe must share. In this way, creating story feeds the futher creation of story, as it should be. Different Troups have different methods of redistributing Drops to be reinvested. Several time-tested methods will be given, but Troupes are always encouraged to experiment and find a solution that suits them.

Permanent Masks, such as the Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary ones that form the PCs identities, are always a constant drain on the Troupe's resources. Since at least one Drop has to be kept invested in each permanent Mask, more Permanent Masks means less Drops in the common pool (and therefore less Drops moving around to create story). However, as the Troupe tells more and more stories, they will slowly increase their allotment of Drops, allowing more complex stories and more complex personal identities to develop. However, mismanagement and botched stories can also loose the Troupe Drops.

Thoughts?

That's the direction I've been heading lately. It's a little simpler and more open-ended than previous incarnations, but I like it. It allows people who like simplicity to keep the game very basic, but long-running, experienced Troupes can come up with complex relationships, characters, and stories that create a more involved experience. Those of you who were familiar with the Masks, Themes, Duties, and Names of previous incarnations will find that they are all Masks now. This is a lesson I learned from Shreyas, perhaps. Things that are mechanically the same can be conceptually the same. I didn't really talk about the issue of how a given Mask's effectiveness is determined, but I'll tackle that in a minute. Anybody see any red flags so far?

This is pretty amazing. I have some tiny qualms already, though. (1) The word Troupe sounds too militant to me. Anything more mystical? Flamboyant?
If you've grown attached to the word, I won't pry.

I still don't quite understand the redistrobution of Drops. When a Mask breaks, does it kind of explode with its drops into the pool? And each Masquer has a different way of syphoning Drops from the pool? "Nothing comes without Sacrifice" that sounds like a perfect phrase you should use in your game.

I also didn't quite get down identity. Does the Masks I wear get affected by identity? Because it feels more interesting if I'm somehow an element of the game that isn't commonly reproduced. Like, for a time, I can create any Mask, but it has to do with nature. Or even something more elaborate. Call it a "negative" Drop or something.

I am trying to make a system I call a word based game, and this is giving me some amazing ideas already. Because I'm trying to form a bunch of words that act as the mechanic. Like Merits & Flaws by itself. Instead of giving character a status of questions to answer, a character would buy "strong punch" or buy "quick leaping" and gain money back with flaws, naturally. I also wanted to add things like "forest" and "canyon" for producing the game. In terms of Masques a character could actually buy "forest" or "canyon" in addition. I'm naturally using a regular character party scenario, just drawing a parallel.

And what makes the Masquer motivated to succeed at something in the story it creates? Does achieving Valor give you a drop to put Valor elsewhere? Does it automatically melt into a generic Drop, or is it difficult to "boil" Drops and sometimes better to use it on something similar?

I think that's where you were describing difference between Primary and temporary. I may be a little lost, so I hope I haven't asked what you've already answered.

Thanks for your thoughts. Let me see if I can clarify a bit.

Our buddy Webster gives the definition of troupe as being "COMPANY, TROOP; especially : a group of theatrical performers." And it's the latter definition that I was going for, as in a theatrical troupe. But I also wanted the military connotations, because a Troupe is, in a sense, a unit that has to depend on each other and work together whether they like each other or not. More like a family or business relationship or, indeed, a military unit.

I still don't quite understand the redistrobution of Drops. When a Mask breaks, does it kind of explode with its drops into the pool? And each Masquer has a different way of syphoning Drops from the pool?

I also didn't quite get down identity.

And what makes the Masquer motivated to succeed at something in the story it creates?

I worry that you've gone through so many major revisions. I mean, I'm impressed that you can crank this stuff out, but so many core elements change on each iteration, that I wonder if you're ever going to settle on something. Is this it? Is this the one that's going to make it (after some fine tuning)? I'm really hoping so.

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: Is this it? Is this the one that's going to make it (after some fine tuning)? I'm really hoping so.

Jonathan Walton wrote: Does that answer your concerns, Mike?

I'd like to know a little bit more about Masks, actually. It seems that if you're conflating Duties with rights over descriptive elements, then you're implying a Universalis-like Gimmick mechanic where a twist in the rules can be defined as a Mask, and Drops can be spent invoking it. This isn't bad, but it's significantly different from the other uses of Masks, and you'll want to consider its scope carefully.

Mike Holmes wrote: What's the next step here?

Shreyas Sampat wrote: I'd like to know a little bit more about Masks, actually.

Since I read threads haphazardly at work in the middle of the night, I can best be at times rather thick. But in having read previous incarnations of Ever-After, and agreeing with you that this present manifestation feels closer to what you have been grokking for, I have a question.

Have you comprized masks, duties, and themes all into one thing now, Masks?

If yes, as I grasp it, this works in a brilliantly simplistic way. If not, then I reiterate the word thick.

I like the idea of Primary Masks leaking through to what ever role you are playing at the moment. It is like any character you are playing becomes an Avatar for the Primary Mask. This would definitely work mechanically if Primary Masks were utilized for free. Maybe a Primary Mask happens over time with an investment of Drops, possibly using a democratic mechanic to ensure that Primary Masks are supported by the Troupe as a whole.

Question then on Masks: If I have, say, a Mask of George, as my Primary Mask, what traits/abilities/whathaveyou does that give me? Following Estates from Nobolis, I could themetically see that I have some type of "power" over all people named George; stretch that to having some type of say in challenges, combat and stories dealing with Dragons; include Georgie Porgie, and you have some ability in being an effeminate ladie's man, maybe having some say in love triangles and wooing. Wow, I actually think I came up with some good ideas on a Mask I thought would be bland.

But for what I was attempting, a Primary Mask with a very limited interpretation, would I want to trade it in for a Primary Mask with broader scope? Or could Masks develop descriptors over play? I think you see the entire Masker reinterpreted with each and every mask they have and use. But could a Permanent Mask also develop, say, Titles, rather than take on a whole new mask?

I get excited each time you give us an update. Thanks for the inspiration, Jonathan.
Jack

MathiasJack wrote: Have you comprized masks, duties, and themes all into one thing now, Masks?

Maybe a Primary Mask happens over time with an investment of Drops...

If I have, say, a Mask of George, as my Primary Mask, what traits/abilities/whathaveyou does that give me?

Or could Masks develop descriptors over play?

I agree that option 3 makes the most sense when thinking of sleek mechanics. My only questions are, if I started out with the rather bland Mask of George in a specific story with it's very specific interpretation - what's to limit from immediately taking on broader interpretetations when playing?

And/or when the masquer wishes for the Mask to change, say from generic Mask of George to Mask of St. George, does the masquer simply state so and apply the apporopiate mechanic, or does the themes of St. George need to occur in-game before the Mask of George can be let go?

Hopefully those questions are clear :)
Jack

Second vote for 3, with the caveat that interpretations are going to change every time a Mask influences play; there is no way around that. But it makes more sense to replace a mask that has changed significantly than it does to try and 'convert' an old mask, in my mind.

MathiasJack wrote: My only questions are, if I started out with the rather bland Mask of George in a specific story with it's very specific interpretation - what's to limit from immediately taking on broader interpretetations when playing?

And/or when the masquer wishes for the Mask to change, say from generic Mask of George to Mask of St. George, does the masquer simply state so and apply the apporopiate mechanic, or does the themes of St. George need to occur in-game before the Mask of George can be let go?

Shreyas Sampat wrote: But it makes more sense to replace a mask that has changed significantly than it does to try and 'convert' an old mask, in my mind.