So, I bought the Paladin PDF the other day after some discussion in the Indie Netgaming irc channel of what systems might be good for “dark” role-playing. The PDF was only $6 so I figured I didn’t have much to lose if Paladin wasn’t quite what I wanted.

I didn’t have a setting in mind when I purchased the PDF but that little problem was solved the next day when I happened to remember that the setting used in the Heresy CCG would be absolutely perfect for the kind of atmosphere I wanted. Here’s a blurb from the actual card game that gives a feel for the setting:

Heresy is a game of action, strategy, and influence in which you and your opponents represent powerful, enigmatic, spiritual beings who, due to a tremendous breach of the barriers between the spiritual, physical, and digital worlds, have fallen from the dream-state of the divine Empyrean into the torturous Wilds of the Forsaken Earth. This breach, known as "the Ruin" has cast the world into a dark and deadly age, where technology and mysticism intertwine to twist the laws of reality, and gothic legends clash with the glittering chrome and neon of the cyber-age. During the course of play you will assemble a cadre of immortal fallen seraphim, usurp control of the broken nations of the blasted world, and attempt to reconstruct the Ruin-shattered global computer network known as the "Matrix". Your goal is to amass the spiritual energy and technical resources needed to achieve reascension and return to the Empyrean.

You are members of an anonymous cell of the Thorn Blooded Pride, a mystic order devoted to seeing the True Messiah made flesh and bone. You are charged with thwarting The Lion's enemies as well as seeking the Cup of Christ. Only by joining with the residual DNA in the Grail during Replication can the True Messiah bring about the Second Coming and heal the breach known as the "Ruin". Eternal Salvation lies at the feet of The Lion.

There is much speculation among those that know of The Lion as to his true nature. Some believe he may be the missing celestial Metatron. Some say he is actually Dimeon Wu, the Cardinal Scientist responsible for the "Ruin". Others suppose a half dozen different possibilities, but only the Thorn Blooded Pride knows the true nature of The Lion. The True Messiah is a virtual construct originally modeled on Jesus of Nazareth, but the "Ruin" has modified and introduced new elements into the construct's original programming not the least of which is sentience.

"Go ye forth and battle mine enemies and all their minions. Seek out the one true Grail and let not the secret of my nature be known to those beyond the Pride. Follow me, my children, and trumpet my Return. For my wake shall flow with blood, and with blood shall I cleanse the world."

Chris,

Cool stuff - I'm excited to see how it goes in play.

C. Edwards wrote:
Character creation experienced a couple hiccups, well, one big hiccup. Being the freedom and director stance loving kind of guy that I am, I wanted to give the players the opportunity to create the Code for their Order. I didn’t want to create the Code myself and then have the players not be jazzed about it. So, while Attributes and Abilities for characters went fairly quickly it took a great deal of time to iron out the Code to everyone’s satisfaction. There could easily be three to five more pages in Paladin devoted solely to the effects of the Code in play, covering various types of Laws and how they can act as character limits or directives, etc.

Chris, what was the order's weapon? Did I miss it above? Somewhow to me that's really key. Any chance it was their computers?

Mike

Hey

Rob here, thought I'd provide some comments on the game so far. I
should have done this last night when things were still fresh, but oh well.
Kind of hard to offer many comments on Paladin itself, as I am the only
one playing that doesn't have the rules. From the set-up portion, I can
definitely say that the Code stuff proved to be some heavy lifting for the
group as a whole. I could have used more time to focus on the setting
and some more kibbitizing with Chris on his ideas for game to come up
with idea for game. It's been a while since I have played anything so,
maybe I am rusty.

Another thing I found confusing was the understanding of How your
Attributes are supposed to work, what they are supposed to be. Didn't
come very easily for me, and I still don't see the point of the custom
namings of the "matrix" points of the attribute scheme. Again, access to
the rules could have helped, but it seemed to be a bit muddled from the
other guy's understanding as well.


As for the flow of the game itself, I felt a bit lost most of the time. Chris
and Nate and Lxndr have played together more, so I wasn't familiar with
how they did things . We came up with some character specific bangs,
and then Chris started us off in a rolling 3 part progressive storyline. I
was feeling kind of lost here, Didn't feel like I had enough GM guidance/
group assumption feel to see what was going on. Which I dealt with by
doing some heavy scene framing and storylining by myself. Which kind of
ended up me rail-roading the GM, or trying too. Maybe it was just the
silence of IRC that made me feel kind of isolated in way was progressing.
Or maybe because those guys type too slow or something:) Seemed, that
Lxndr and Nate were more comfortable with slow character scene stuff. I
didn't have any NPC's to interact with really, so I was feeling like he
wanted me to get some cool scenes on my end to introduce character, or
something.


Another stumbling block proved to be my understanding of how
the "resolution" system worked. I wasn't solid on what determined what,
or what your chances are. (Usually a big deal to me.) By the time i did roll
to do something, I what was something I sucked at so only had 1 die,
flubbed roll. Even tried getting all mystical fu, spending some animus on
it, and still failed, which was rather anti-climatic and annoying.

Anyway, It seems like things should go smoother next session. Hopefully
I will get in the groove with the rest of the group. Maybe I should send
Chris a copy of Mavis Beacon or something:) (I type at least 45 words a
minute, and am probably more comfortable typing than talking, and it
kind of overran the other guys.)


Hopefully that is some of what Chris, and Clinton is interested in hearing/discussing. Gotta run for now.



best

RobMuadib wrote:
Another thing I found confusing was the understanding of How your
Attributes are supposed to work, what they are supposed to be. Didn't
come very easily for me, and I still don't see the point of the custom
namings of the "matrix" points of the attribute scheme. Again, access to
the rules could have helped, but it seemed to be a bit muddled from the
other guy's understanding as well.

Mike Holmes wrote: Chris, what was the order's weapon? Did I miss it above? Somewhow to me that's really key. Any chance it was their computers?

Mike

OK, still not quite sure. Real Flechette guns, or virtual Flechette Guns.

You realize that, given that Flechette use is banned by international convention that I would assume that weapons that fired them directly (as opposed to curent delivery systems) like you describe would be outlawed, therefore? :-)

http://www.unog.ch/frames/disarm/distreat/excessiv.pdf

Mike

Mike,

Flechette guns are pretty standard fare in most Cyberpunk fiction. We didn't directly address whether they're illegal or not. Given the current condition of the game world, my guess is that it doesn't matter a whole lot. :) Our guns are actual guns, not cyberspace constructs, but due to the strange metaphysical upheavel in this setting, characters have the ability to physically enter the matrix - basically, pulling their bodies in after they jack in - so the guns analogue in the Matrix as well.

Rob,

Just to weigh in with Lxndr, I type 90+ WPM, and also didn't feel overwhelmed. Your scenes were cool stuff. :)

Lots of stuff ,

First, some general comments. I had a lot of fun last night despite the kinks we encountered. The PC’s are interesting and the players are imaginative. We only made a couple small forays into use of the resolution mechanics, but that was due more to it being the initial play session than anything else.

One thing I did do, and plan to continue doing, is only use contested rolls during ‘climactic’ situations. If the characters aren’t interfacing with someone in a situation with some serious ‘story’ weight then I’m just using a standard non-contested roll and calling for an appropriate amount of successes.

Since Alexander plans on posting the narration log I’ll skip any retelling of events. Now, some individual replies.

Rob,
Don’t stress over the pacing. Have your character do whatever you want him to do. The only real issue I have is that you seem to be trying to resolve any conflicts by jumping past the conflict through narration. Which is all fine and well but it’s going to make for a fairly disjointed play experience.

Doing your own scene-framing is great, but if I don’t have an opportunity to throw in some “GM stuff” then you might as well be playing by yourself. We’re not in any kind of rush, there’s no limit to how many sessions we have to play, so just try and find a groove that works for you. As long as I still get to participate. ;) Oh, and my slow typing was an artifact of wanting to promote the proper atmosphere with my narration and putting a chromed edge on everything. I actually can type a little faster than was obvious last night. :)

Clinton,
I don’t think the problem is too many Attributes as much as that it’s not really clear what they represent. On the roll Lxndr mentions, his character grabbed a wannabe razorgirl he had been checking out and proceeded to kiss her. This was in an attempt to not have his face seen by the security patrol passing by on the street. He was taking action, and his action/strength Attribute for Flesh is “Nerve”. Seemed like a perfect fit.

I wasn’t entirely comfortable with having “Wealth” as a Flesh attribute to begin with, but the boundaries on such things aren’t very clear. I eventually defaulted to “if you can bring it into the narration in some meaningful way then you can use that Attribute”.

On Rob’s roll, his character was attempting to deactivate a homing beacon. Nothing about his character suggested that this was something he knew how to do. The character’s Flesh attributes weren’t any apparent help. Since the action fell within the bounds of a normal human activity, I ruled that it would be a standard roll but that since he didn’t have any applicable Flesh attributes or abilities he would have to spend Animus to get dice. He spent three Animus and got no successes so he activated an Animus attribute allowing him to reroll one of the dice. Still no success.

One big question we had was whether the Animus attribute activated needed to pertain to the action in some way, and also how many Animus attributes can be activated .

Mike,
Yeah, flechette weapons are pretty common cyberpunk fare. Due to the breach between the digital, physical, and spiritual realms known as the “Ruin” and a particular ability the characters have called Netwalking, they pretty much ‘translate’ into digital form when the characters enter the Matrix.

-Chris

Mike Holmes wrote: OK, still not quite sure. Real Flechette guns, or virtual Flechette Guns.

You realize that, given that Flechette use is banned by international convention that I would assume that weapons that fired them directly (as opposed to curent delivery systems) like you describe would be outlawed, therefore? :-)

http://www.unog.ch/frames/disarm/distreat/excessiv.pdf

Session Start: Tue Aug 05 18:35:14 2003
Session Ident: #indie_nar
[18:35] * Now talking in #indie_nar
[18:35] * Topic is 'Indie Net-gaming Narration Room (Paganini)'
[18:35] * Set by Paganini on Tue Jul 15 19:53:41
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> Paladin: Kingdom Come
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> session 1
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> Introduction
[18:37] <C_Edwards> .
[18:37] <C_Edwards> You are members of an anonymous cell of the Thorn Blooded Pride, a mystic order devoted to seeing the True Messiah made flesh and bone. You are charged with thwarting The Lion's enemies as well as seeking the Cup of Christ.
[18:38] <C_Edwards> Only by joining with the residual DNA in the Grail during Replication can the True Messiah bring about the Second Coming and heal the breach known as the "Ruin". Eternal Salvation lies at the feet of The Lion.
[18:38] <C_Edwards> There is much speculation among those that know of The Lion as to his true nature. Some believe he may be the missing celestial Metatron. Same say he is actually Dimeon Wu, the Cardinal Scientist responsible for the "Ruin". Others suppose a half dozen different possibilities, but only the Thorn Blooded Pride knows the true nature of The Lion.
[18:38] <C_Edwards> The True Messiah is a virtual construct originally modeled on Jesus of Nazareth, but the "Ruin" has modified and introduced new elements into the construct's original programming not the least of which is sentience.
[18:38] <C_Edwards> "Go ye forth and battle mine enemies and all their minions. Seek out the one true Grail and let not the secret of my nature be known to those beyond the Pride. Follow me, my children, and trumpet my Return. For my wake shall flow with blood, and with blood shall I cleanse the world."
[18:38] <C_Edwards> .
[18:38] <C_Edwards> .
[18:38] <C_Edwards> .
[18:39] * Paganini is now known as Mephisto
[18:39] * Lxndr is now known as Orpheus
[18:39] * RobMuadib is now known as Vendetta
[18:39] * Vendetta is now known as Vendetta[Rob]
[18:40] * C_Edwards is now known as GM
[18:52] * Mephisto heads down the street, sweat collecting on his forehead, running down through his eyebrows. Impatiently he mops it away, staring back over his shoulder. They're still there, the two identical suits. Raven's Dive has been fried to white ash all, and these corporate types still coming right on his tail. This is not turning out to be a great day.
[18:54] * Mephisto clutches the black biosoft in his left hand. It was supposed to just be some low-level ICE-breaker, but whatever it is, they must want it pretty bad. Either that, or there's a royal screwup going down and they're after the complete wrong guy.
[18:58] <GM> ,
[18:58] <GM> .
[18:58] <GM> .
[19:03] <GM> As start to pass the mouth of an alley you hear, "Psst, hey, grimmer!" from the shadows in a deep feminine voice"
[19:06] * Mephisto pulls out his fletcher and aims it at the voice. He does duck into the alleyway though.
[19:06] <Mephisto> "Nice and slow babe. Let's see your hands."
[19:07] <GM> You see her hands come up slowly, but you still can't make out her face. "Easy grimmer, those Corpse boys are gonna be on you any second now. Maybe we can fix that, eh?"
[19:10] <GM> (You hear the voice in your head, that voice that's kept you alive so many times, the one that knows all about the Biz.... "There are no free rides in the Sprawl, grimmer.")
[19:12] <Mephisto> "Convince me. Do it reall fast; my trigger finger already had one derm too many."
[19:12] <GM> .
[19:12] <GM> Cut
[19:12] <GM> .
[19:13] <Orpheus> Yesterday, through unknown channels, Orpheus's father acquired what he believed to be information leading to the Grail. Unfortunately for the old man, he refused to share his discovery his son, preferring instead to hoard it for himself. He stood in between a hunter and its most valued prey.
[19:13] <Orpheus> Now, his father was dead, torn apart by Orpheus's flechettes. The body hadn't been found yet, but he was sure it would be soon. Orpheus, meanwhile, was out on the streets, running, hoping to find an alibi, carrying the encrypted disk where this information was stored.
[19:13] <GM> .
[19:16] * Paganini has joined #indie_nar
[19:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Paganini
[19:16] * Mephisto has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[19:17] * Paganini is now known as Mephisto
[19:18] <GM> You're walking one of the more upscale shopping districts in the Vegas Expanse. This is the land of shiny, happy people, oblivious to the ugly realities of the "Ruin". Just as you were not so long ago. You're watching a hot, young, bebopper wanna-be razor grrlll when you notice the reflection of a Mikazami Security vehicle in one of the luminescent store windows.
[19:20] <Orpheus> "Fuck," Orpheus says under his breath, then grabs the razorgrrl, and begins kissing her, pressing her up against the store window so that his back is to the Miks.
[19:22] * Harano has joined #indie_nar
[19:23] * Harano is now known as Vendetta
[19:24] * Vendetta[Rob] has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[19:25] * Vendetta is now known as Vendetta[Rob]
[19:32] <GM> The razorgrrll tenses, then she starts kissing you back. You can taste a metallic residue on her lips, on her tongue, but there's no time to worry about it. The Mikazami Security vehicle drives slowly past, it's orange light reflecting spasmodically off of the store front windows.
[19:33] <GM> .
[19:33] <GM> cut
[19:33] <GM> .
[19:37] <GM> Mephisto
[19:40] <GM> The shadows ripple as she shifts position, letting the blue neon glow from the street emblazon her face. "I'm looking for something, grimmer. I hear you may be looking for something too. Maybe we can help each other."
[19:43] <Mephisto> "Yeah, fine, whatever, I'll listen to your pitch; later. First I gotta ditch the Armani Brothers here."
[19:43] <GM> "Back down the alley then, I got a ride waiting." She motions into the shadows with her head.
[19:44] <Mephisto> "Right. I don't know who you are, but I'm with you."
[19:48] <GM> As you reach the end of the alley you can make out the faint silohuette of low-slung vehicle, some sport model. A Shimaru StreetDevil maybe. The doors pop with the woosh of decompression. The vehicle doesn't make a sound as you roll out into the scramble of traffic.
[19:48] <GM> .
[19:48] <GM> cut.
[19:48] <GM> .
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> I got the names of this group of Corpser's from a 'Liner Out of the western
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> upside Sprawl, MescaLine, he called himself. I tracked them down to a row of
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> clubs and brothels in the middle sprawl, Pretty nice and dry here, but you could
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> still feel the sweat from the water.
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> They were wasted and not scanning their six. His two boyos went down like wet
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> newspaper in a wood chipper, before the other guy could react I had his head in
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> a crush-grip. He wouldn't talk much, but I still got the datastore he had, and
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> maybe I could get his brain probed before it rotted. I Wanted to find out who
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> had done my crew six months ago. Tough luck the answer was in your gray,
[19:49] <Vendetta[Rob]> grimmer.
[19:50] <Vendetta[Rob]> As i was putting the Datastore into my bag, after putting his brain in a ziptite bag, I cursed, He had a Resurrection Recovery failsafe beacon in there.
[19:51] <GM> .
[19:51] <Vendetta[Rob]> I had about 79 seconds to get out of there before a vectorcraft full of RnR cleaners comes looking for it.
[19:54] <GM> You watch the beacon pulse silently, the little red led marking time until retrieval. With any luck, the vectorcraft would get caught up in SkyNet's labrynth of outdated traffic patterns, but that was a longshot...
[19:56] * Vendetta[Rob] curses and figures the closest hacker he can get to do a hot disarm and datasift on it while he stays ahead of RnR.
[19:57] * Vendetta[Rob] then heads to were he can get a Fast ride out of here, maybe one of those Rocketshawmen
[19:58] <GM> .
[19:58] <GM> Cut.
[19:58] <GM> .
[19:58] <GM> Orpheus
[20:04] <GM> Kora slides off of you, sweat dripping offer her hair onto your chest. Her small "working girl" apartment smells like sex and desperation, all 15x15 feet of it. YOu watch her ass as she slides into the sanitation closet.
[20:06] <Orpheus> "Mmmm," Orpheus says, stretching. "I needed that." He wondered if the Miks had passed this area by yet... he hoped so. He sat up and began to get dressed - he'd dallied here long enough.
[20:11] <GM> You entertain the thought of slipping into the sanitation closet yourself, you'd at least stink less. But that would ruin the clean getaway. After one last check to make sure you still have the disk, you slip outside into the rain-slicked maze of suburban hell known as the Vegas Central Prosperity District.
[20:12] <Orpheus> Orpheus looks around for any Miks and, seeing none, makes a beeline for the nearest safehouse.
[20:13] <GM> There's a safehouse not too far from here, and with any luck you can get the disc decrypted and vault the info.
[20:13] <GM> .
[20:13] <GM> cut
[20:13] <GM> .
[20:13] <GM> Vendetta
[20:15] <Vendetta[Rob]> I beat feet to find a Rocketshawman, Leaping into the back seat and telling him to show me the sites, of the ground level.
[20:18] * Mephisto has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[20:19] <GM> The rocketshaw jerks then speeds off, it's repulsors making a low hum as you wind in and out of traffic. The l.e.d. begins to blink rapidly as it marks the approach of the recovery craft. You set to work trying to disarm the beacon through the use of your spirit.
[20:20] * Vendetta[Rob] will also do a search to find someone who can probe the brain he has too
[20:20] <Vendetta[Rob]> (via his asychronous, anonymous, tight beam wireless netlink or something)
[20:20] * Paganini has joined #indie_nar
[20:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Paganini
[20:21] * Paganini is now known as Morpheus
[20:22] * Morpheus is now known as Mephisto
[20:40] <GM> The beacon seems oblivious to your attempts to force it into deactivating.
[20:42] * Vendetta[Rob] snarls at the Shawnmen to take him to the outskirts of the Web, he'll get Techy JS to do a quick disable job, and deal with any RnR guys on the way
[20:44] <GM> Suddenly, the beacon stops blinking. The recovery craft must have homed in on you. You scan the sky as the rocketshaw speeds past crumbling buildings and throws water in a fanshaped wake from the street.
[20:44] <GM> .
[20:44] <GM> cut
[20:44] <GM> .
[20:44] <GM> Mephisto
[20:50] <GM> The StreetDevil moves through the Sprawl like neon streaked phantom. If you've got your bearings right, you're slowly making your way towards the Korigenju Industrial Complex, a massive area of abandoned factories and toxic sludge sinks.
[20:51] <GM> After a few minutes your host breaks the silence.
[20:51] <GM> "You must have done something pretty fierce to yank off those rippers."
[20:52] <Mephisto> "Dunno. Guess so."
[20:52] * Mephisto carefully avoids telling her about the ICE-breaker.
[20:53] <Mephisto> "So, what's this pitch you're gonna make?"
[20:53] <GM> "You're not the expressive type are you? Doesn't matter, I don't need to know your life story. I do need to know if you're who I think you are though."
[20:53] <Mephisto> "Most likely not. Who do you think I am?"
[20:55] <GM> She glances at you with deep brown pools of glistening brilliance that pass for eyes. "I think you are a 'runner. One with a good deal of.. animal magnetism. A guy someone could hire to do a job if it coincided with his own interests."
[20:56] * Mephisto snorts
[20:57] <Mephisto> "If you've got cash, I can probably cut whatever. Doubt you can front it, though. I work for the Order; we don't come cheap."
[21:00] <GM> "If you'll take the job I can front it. You may be more interested than you think. I assume you know what an Aleph is?"... The StreetDevil turns into a docking lane that passes right next to many of the factories in the complex. Your host cuts the lights as you move soundlessy through the midst of the decay.
[21:01] * Mephisto sits up and pays attention while trying not to look like it.
[21:01] <Mephisto> "Yeah, sure I know what an Aleph is. You saying you got a line on one?"
[21:03] <GM> "I need you to recover a box. A very special box. It's an Aleph but it's also a virtual construct, and it may very well contain some information that would be of great value to you."
[21:03] <GM> .
[21:03] <GM> cut
[21:03] <GM> .
[21:03] <GM> end session 1
[21:03] <GM> .
[21:03] <GM> .
[21:03] * GM has left #indie_nar
[21:03] * Mephisto has left #indie_nar
Session Close: Tue Aug 05 21:04:04 2003

So, we played again last Monday. Although we’ll most likely continue with the current storyline, we have decided unanimously to switch from Paladin to another system. Paladin just isn’t what any of us consider a complete and finished game product. The rules are vague and it’s often a mystery as to how certain mechanics are applied.

I’ve been hemming and hawing all week while trying to think of a way to make this post less harsh. I know that I certainly wouldn’t want to read such a post about a game of mine. But I’ve always considered blunt honesty to be best in the long-run for all involved. That said, I’m a little pissed that Paladin is actually being sold in it’s current state. I know that you’re working on a new version, Clinton, but I really think selling the current version in its current state was a bad idea.

I love the premise, and Code idea is pretty sweet, but the game seriously needs at least five pages worth of clarifications and “in-depth” discussion to make it a complete game.

-Chris

Chris,

Hey - don't worry about being harsh. I appreciate it, and your comments help me know what's wrong with the game currently. I have two responses.

1) Paladin's not what I would call a great game system. It's definitely complete - I released it after having several groups use it for their own games in playtesting and enjoy it. Looking back, I wish I'd had at least one playtest group do a campaign that lasted longer than a month.

2) I've often thought about giving the game away. However, it's incredibly unfair to everyone who has paid for it and enjoyed it. I could take it down completely, but that seems wrong, for some reason.