Hello just a quick question,

I want to give my new character a very well made longsword (it was his daddies and he's on a personal quest to find out how he died hmm.. Inago Montoya... (spelling?))

Anyway. Off the top of my head the only reference I can remember to something like this in the rule book is in one of the combat examples where, from what I remember, it is a bonus to ATN.

Is this fair: Masterwork Longsword -1 Cut ATN, -1 DTN (to standard Longsword TN's I can't remember what they are at the moment)
Due to it being a very well made and balanced weapon?

I was thinking may be a price tag of atounf 7 to 8g (I think that the standard price is 2 1/2g). I (as a GM) don't want this to be a sitiation where each of the players "tools up" on the best weapons, it should be a rare item.

Does anyone hvave any comments on this?
(I did do a quick search but couldn't really find anything)

regards,
Dan.

change the name, and more people would be apt to reply... try something other tan a D&D term.... yeh i know masterwork could mean anything... too bad D&D has corrupted the word

id suggest raising the price a little higher, and possibly go into how long it actually takes to create something of this nature...

if a sword takes 2 weeks to create, then a "masterwork" sword may take a month

something of that nature

I've always used 5x and 10x for higher quality weapons. At 5x base price I'd allow a player to choose either -1 ATN, -1 DTN or +1 Damage. At 10x base price I'd allow the player to pick two of the above options. So, yup, 20 gold standard for a longsword that has -1 ATN and DTN. I think It's fair.

I agree. How do you change the name? That was one of the things that didn't sit well with me.

hmm... fine weapons? exceptional? rare?

Yeah I was thinking of costing more 10gc and also on affecting one ability ie made to be particually well balend to cut etc.

As to time I was thinking of actually having to fine someone good enough to make it an also may be a 6month or more time period (taking into account back orders that such a skilled artisan would have as wel

Draigh wrote: I've always used 5x and 10x for higher quality weapons. At 5x base price I'd allow a player to choose either -1 ATN, -1 DTN or +1 Damage. At 10x base price I'd allow the player to pick two of the above options. So, yup, 20 gold standard for a longsword that has -1 ATN and DTN. I think It's fair.

two-and-a-half times ten is twenty-five, not 200

Doh! not thinking. basic maths. doh!

Sorry ;-)

Do like the idea though could make very good Rondels quite cheap.


Dan.

you got in before me.

Is there a way you can edit stupidity like that out?

[EDIT]Just found it. Sorry I don't post on forums much.[/EDIT]

Dan.

Dan, I just called them "fine" for 5x and "exquisite" for 10x. Honestly, my PCs don't run across that quality of weapon often enough to catagorize them. I look at these as being real labors of love, in an art. Just like the mona lisa or whistler's mother.... Something that stands out far and above an already incredibly high quality of work.

Just to note, Draigh's usage isn't just a house rule. It's actually in the book, the column on the right-hand side of page 203.

I would definitely make -1 ATN -1 DTN the best a weapon can be made, unless you want to use magic in the crafting. That's already a huge advantage by itself, anything beyond that would be to the point of twinkish advantage.

Wolfen's right there... hell, even with magic, I would find a sword with -2 to ATN or DTN hard to swallow. I liked the idea of giving magical weapons SAs...

Thankyou all for replying, I couldn't remember seeing it in the book I'll look it up when I get home.

I agree that the best that could be made should only perhaps be better in 2 ways and then never more than a one step improvement. (Unless it is magical then I like idea in the magic weapons thread of then having SAs and then they change to being things of awe and incredible rarity)

The naming sounds good as well.

I'm just worried that once one turns up the rest of the players are going to go "I want one as well" and then try to find someone to make them.

Thinking of which you could roll craft tests for the master artisan to see if he succeeds or how long it takes.

Thanks again for your input,

Dan.

Draigh,

Just seen your reply and I think your right there, this (thankfully ;-) isn't D&D.

Dan.

Masterwork is a real word, to my mild surprise. And it even sounds appropriate; after all an apprentice would produce a master piece to gain promotion to that esteemed rank, so describing a work made by a master as a masterwork seems fine.

But note these things are made on comission, not for the rack. So it's unlikely tou;de be able to turn up and buy one, you should instead need to seek out a suitable master and get in line - if you are ecven able to buy the piece. There may well be social class ristrictions on such a thing, or the masters with such skills may already be retainers of a lord committed to their service, in which case you would need the lords consent too.

I had the problem of piling masterwork weapons a while ago too. That was solved with a few twists.
First of all, only standard weapons at character creation.
Secondly, only certain weapons is available as masterpieces.
Thirdly, making these things take time.
Fourthly, they are *expensive*.
Fifthly, finding a good enough smith can be mighty hard
sixthly, making said smith willing to work for you can be even harder.
Taking all this into account, you can weave an entire adventure around it. By the time the PC finish that adventure, I'd say they deserve their weapon.

I also have another question on this very topic.

Which weapons would it be possible to get as masterpieces? All of them? Just swords? I have so far assumed that only the weapons of rich in any given culture would be available as masterpieces, since they're the only ones with a big enough purse. It felt silly that anyone spend decades to learn how to make spears if only peasants would buy them.
Is this a good assumption?
So far I've only allowed for swords and poleaxes to be of higher quality. Are there any other weapons that might be done as masterpieces in a Mainlund/Europe-like society?

Another point to consider.. A sword with those bonuses is probably especially balanced and shaped for a given character. I would call it a rule of thumb that anything with a bonus would have to be customized. If it's used by anyone other than the character who commissioned it, then they'll take a penalty, rather than a bonus. Exception to the rule might be someone with similar stats who was either trained by the character in question, or trained with them, but in either case the bonus would be at least one less than for the character using it, if they get a bonus at all.

Wolfen wrote: Another point to consider.. A sword with those bonuses is probably especially balanced and shaped for a given character. I would call it a rule of thumb that anything with a bonus would have to be customized.

Mokkurkalfe wrote: Which weapons would it be possible to get as masterpieces? All of them? Just swords? I have so far assumed that only the weapons of rich in any given culture would be available as masterpieces, since they're the only ones with a big enough purse. It felt silly that anyone spend decades to learn how to make spears if only peasants would buy them.
Is this a good assumption?
So far I've only allowed for swords and poleaxes to be of higher quality. Are there any other weapons that might be done as masterpieces in a Mainlund/Europe-like society?

As far as PC's go... if a character is a landed or landless noble I'll let him buy whatever masterwork weapons he wants at PC creation.

However some things on this thread have made me rethink what can be a masterwork weapon... it must be a weapon that with an artists touch can be made better than an already well made example of one.

I would say most all bladed weapons and perhaps even "war axes" made explicitly for personal combat, not the regular kind though.

However "mass weapons" I have rethought. Maces, warhammers, flails and pole axes, quarterstaffs rely on thier weight to inflict damage. And once you already have a well made sample, how much better can it possibly get??? It's a mass weapon. (Whereas it is said by those who have handled them there is a difference between a munitions grade sword used by the rank and file and a one-off weapon made by a master craftsman.)

I'm just wanting to put a stop to people running around with masterclass quarterstaffs. It's a bloody quarterstaff! it can't get much better.

I'd say that I'd let most any weapon get a +1 to damage just because there are things one can do to make it hurt more (extra barbs, extra pull on a bow, etc...), but I'd only allow handeling bonuses like -1 ATN/DTN to weapons where an artist could make a noticable difference.

Oh and if you allow one player to have a masterclass weapon at chargen, you better be prepared to let all your players have one then too, or you'll never hear the end of it.

My opinion is this: If someone is willing to pay a sufficient price for it, the smith would be "nutso" not to do it. Or have personal issues aside from purely financial and labor concerns.

Also, it might be a common thing to say that if it's made by a given smith, it's automatically a fine weapon.. His apprentices make the normal stuff. But to actually get the aforementioned master smith to even consider taking your commission could be an adventure in and of itself.

Master Inchkeith, anyone?

My opinion is this: If someone is willing to pay a sufficient price for it, the smith would be "nutso" not to do it.

In terms of rarity, I would make a distinction between x5 (gp) and x10 weapons. I would allow x5 weapons to be available in any reasonable circumstance, although there might be a wait. For example, any one in a city could buy a x5 weapon, but they would be hard to comeby in a village or small town. Regular quality weapons might be scarce in these situations.

I would make x10 gp weapons rare and more individual.

In the end, I would let PCs get what they want (more or less) and just adjust the NPCs.

NT

Wow I've started quite a discussion here! :-) and it looks good stuff.

What we eventually decided (myself an the Seneschal) is pretty much as in the book (now I've read it). So it cost 10gc (-1 Swing ATN)and is linked to an SA as well.

Drive: to descover the truth behind his farters death (and avenge the murder, assuming it was)

The Longsword belonged to his father who was a trusted retainer for a lord. His father went missing and was months later found dead apparently killed by his own sword.

My character has now taken up the task of first finding out what happend and then doing something about it. I see it as kind of like the search fior the six fingered man but when Inago was just starting out in is quest rather than already a master. It may take 10 years to be in the position to change the drive to revenge. (Off topic rambe sorry, just finished the first session)

Dan.

Isn't limiting weapons of quality to "chivalric" weapons cutting out a huge segment of the world of Weyrth (or whatever alternate earth that you ould like to play with)? Now if you are defining it by social class, that's a different matter, but I could see where someone could use a minor gift for a -1 ATN or -1DTN or a major gift for a -1 ATN and -1DTN. This frees up much needed funds for important things... like food.

On a related tangent, have any seneschals been so depraved as to deny characters of their usual weapons and then only make inferior weapons (say a -1 to ATN or DTN or both) available?

i think the point to say, was that not many people would care, or want to have a "masterwork" pike

I realize that. My arguement was more that using the term chivalric would remove the possibility of exceptional scimitars, sabers, rapiers, or the rare rock dwarf weapon that makes it into human hands.

prophet118 wrote: i think the point to say, was that not many people would care, or want to have a "masterwork" pike

well, they were probably just using that term to classify a group of weapons.... although its the first i have heard "Chivalric" in reference to a group of weapons........


not that anything during the chivalrous age.. was very chivalrous

kenjib wrote:

prophet118 wrote: i think the point to say, was that not many people would care, or want to have a "masterwork" pike

Dragonslayer. ;)

prophet118 wrote: .... although its the first i have heard "Chivalric" in reference to a group of weapons........

well put.. lol

Isn't limiting weapons of quality to "chivalric" weapons cutting out a huge segment of the world of Weyrth (or whatever alternate earth that you ould like to play with)? Now if you are defining it by social class, that's a different matter,