This post is a little off the wall, but I've been stretching Sorcerer inside my head recently, and I've come up with an "interpretation" which I find interesting enough to share with the public.

(note: I come up with more interpretations of Sorcerer than I will ever run, and this is low on the list [on the top are 15 minutes and charnel gods]. However, I post these in the hope that someone might find something they want in them.)

The root of this is a question about the game system:

Q) Are Demons and Humanity fundamentally opposed?
A) Not necessarily.

Setting: A world, much like our own, but more G rated and with the added presence of cute little space aliens / monsters from another dimensions / collectable battle monsters. See Pokemon, Digimon, Monster Ranchers, Robotrek, etc.

Sorcery in Setting: The Sorcerers are kids who are empowered to bind these creatures to them, by a "soul tie," by imprisoning them in a container, or by any other means not too upsetting to family values. The Sorcerers battle amongst each other for supremacy in collection and use of Demons.

Sorcery in System: The act of Contact is merely hearing about a Demon. Summoning is a wacky adventure tracking it down, and Binding is the act of placing it under your control (almost always Lore vs. Lore.) You can't gain a bonus out of human sacrifice (Not G-rated enough) but you can get a bonus from performing some humanity-violating thing in the pursuit of the Demon -- provided that you apologize for it later.

Humanity: The obvious choice for Humanity is ties to other people outside the Sorcerous world -- but that is wildly untrue to the source material, in which the kids are encouraged to become more involved in their pursuit (gotta sell those toys, after all...)
In order to generate a Pokemon like atmosphere, we define humanity as "Goodguyness" which is defined as "Good Treatment of Others, Most Especially Demons." So the good guys are good because they are nice to their demons, and the bad guys are bad because the mistreat them. The demons, here, are fundamentally innocent, and mistreatment of them is always bad. This is why the act of binding a demon is a detriment to humanity -- you are taking an innocent and binding it to your will.
If you wanted a particularly scary version of this, you could define Humanity as "Good Treatment of Demons only," which would lead to a scary, insular, impulsive collector sort of feel. Very Digimon: "Only you understand me, Demon..." (This type of humanity definition could also be very good for a medicine man style Sorcerer where Humanity measures how much demons respect you. Go to 0 and you just can't perform sorcery -- the demons won't obey you.)

This is posted for public consumption. Consume.

yrs--
--Ben

I think your central observation is incorrect. I think that Humanity and Demons are neccessarily opposed. Otherwise, there's no balance. That is, in your game, why should I not summon a 100 Power Demon if I can find a way? Why would Humanity make this harder (which the rules accomplish)?

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: That is, in your game, why should I not summon a 100 Power Demon if I can find a way? Why would Humanity make this harder (which the rules accomplish)?

and a gun (banish.)

Hi there,

As it happens, I was working up a Sorcerer model for all this myself. I decided that I needed to go to the source material and learn more about the difference between all Pokemon-wranglers and everyone else. If there isn't any, then something has to be invented.

Mike, I'm also thinking that every corner doesn't have to be nailed down tight in terms of in-game justification. The whole culture of Pokemon-based competition, for instance, can just be accepted, to my way of thinking, for purposes of play. Sometimes Color is enough.

Best,
Ron

I dunno. I just think I like the version that says that Humanity is giving up your CCG addiction. :-)

Mike

It'd seem to me the strongest issue dividing the good monster-keepers versus the bad monster-keepers is "Taking good care of your pets". It's somewhat hard to think of a catchy one-word name for humanity in such a case, "Patronage", "benevolence" or "Caring", understandingly applied to the monsters, would seem to work. As far as "Caring"(Humanity) being opposed to "Monster-use"(Sorcery), to use them is not bad, but it can lead to seeing them as a tool which is wrong. It would be understandable that in capturing a monster, you

A) antagonize it to a certain extent(Trapping it, weakekening it to capture it, training it to fight, etc.)

B)By collecting more monsters for the sole purpose of using them, you lower the intimate connection between you and your monsters.

Banishing causing you to gain Caring seems to make some sense in the whole scheme of teammanship bringing you together, competetion, winning is good for the monsters, and success means triumphing through your values, even if that idea is a little wonky in reality.

Two other suggestions I would make is rolling your Humanity for interaction with the creatures, and for monsters to be able to increase in power, wherein they gain new Abilities, like the doppleganger example demon in the Sorcerer book such as:

Some, ghost monster thing:

At Power 2: Psychic Force(It has a hypnotic, sleep-inducing power)
At Power 3: Hold(It can strangle creatures with it's tounge)
At Power 4: Daze(It's intense stare makes one lose their balance)
At Power 5: Taint(Hexing)
At Power 6: Shadow(It gains control over the movement of shadows)
At Power 7: Confuse(It's mastery of it's own presence)
At Power 8: Special Damage:Lethal(Some sort of energy sucking ability)

I think there are some other differences with respect to the 'good' vs. 'bad' guys.

Look at Team Rocket vs. Ash & Co.

Ash & Co.:
o Respect Authority
o Help those in need
o Value Knowledge
o Treat their pets well
o Have Empathy
o Earnest

Team Rocket:
o Self Centered
o Greedy
o Sneaky
o Lying
o Arrogant
o Disdainful

Another important thing is how they use their pokemon. Aside from ritual battles, Ash uses his pokemon to help other pokemon or other people. Team Rocket primarily use their pokemon to further selfish goals.

I think Ben is right in that the Pokemon seem to be more or less innocent. The only 'evil' one appears to be Meowth, who is also the only one capable of speaking english.

Anyway, I think you need to broaden Humanity beyond just being nice to your pets. I think it needs to include empathy for others (both pokemon and person) and also the ends to which you put your abilities.

Being a sorcerer (ie, a Pokemon trainer) is a worthwhile goal, but it's not a sufficient end unto itself. It's the primary motivator of Ash's journey, but Misty and Brock have other, complimentary goals and none of them let their goals keep them from excercising their Empathy for others. Actually, maybe this is Humanity -- having goals outside of sorcery? Ash is motivated to become a great Pokemon trainer, but he still puts helping others ahead of that goal. Brock wants to be a Pokemon breeder (I think), and Misty has some focus on Water pokemon. Team Rocket, on the other hand, has gaining more and more powerful pokemon as their primary goal, and subvert everything else to it. So it seems like either obsession in general, or with Sorcery in particular, indicates low Humanity.

Also, look at how you become a good sorcerer. By understanding your pets, taking care of them, and respecting them.

Plus, Ash doesn't achieve the goal of being a great sorcerer. I haven't seen all of them, but I seem to recall a big climactic tournament at the end of the first or second season where Ash DID NOT win first place. He wasn't the best sorcerer, but he was still the good-guy protagonist...

(Yes, I watch too much kiddie tv. Sue me =) Next up, Sorcerers Calvin, Charlie Brown, and Binkley, and their demons Hobbes, Snoopy, and Opus)

Hi there,

Check out the conversation in Sorcerer and ... Pokemon begun by the illustrious Madcat.

Best,
Ron