So i hit upon this idea yesterday and have been fleshing out some details. It's not exactly complex. The basic design is based on the fact that i want to play a game for tactical combat. So i've done the following.

1. Pillaged D&D3(.5) rules for combat and character creation.
2. Established a point based system that allows you to buy character levels and equipment.
3. Designed a structure that allows your party to grow and continue fighting (if they survive).
4. Worked up some rules to provide the losing player with some bonuses.
5. Established a system that has a limited play time which provides a visible goal.

Here's what i've got:

Dungeon Brawl:

Premise: You and your intrepid party have entered the Dungeon of Doom(tm). No one before you has ever made it to the dungeon heart, but you will succeed where the weak have failed. You have just entered the fifth chamber when you run into a well armed group of enemies.

Purpose: Provide a structure in which D&D3(.5)E rules can be used to facilitate purely Gamist play.

Changes from D&D:
1. All skills are assumed to be a character's level + 3 (maximum possible).
2. No EXP, levels are bought with a universal currency (Points).
3. No money, items are also purchased with Points.
4. Everything else is currently unchanged.

The Dungeon Brawl Framework:
1. Play is designed for two players (for now anyway).
2. Each player builds a party of characters using an equal number of points.
3. Each player submits 5 maps (standard D&D square gridded) for play.
4. One map is thrown out, the remaining nine maps are lined up. Play begins in the middle (5th) map.
5. Standard D&D combat begins on the selected map. Combat is to the death, you win when all of them are dead.
6. Once a bttle is won, combat moves to the next map in line.
7. Repeat until someone gets all the way to their opponent's side.

Advancement:
1. A player gains Points in one of two ways
-The winner gains Points equal to the total levels of characters killed by surviving characters.
-The Loser gains some number of Points as a handicap.
2. The winner of a battle also gets all items as loot.
3. There is some mechanism for exchanging items for Points.


That's about it for now. The reason i posted this is to see if i can get some feedback. How does this look "at first glance." Does anyone have suggestions on better ways to (specifically):

1. Handle maps
2. Keep teams about even while still rewarding the winner
3. Better handle Points in order to make things simple without unbalancing D&D difficulty curves
4. Anything else

Thanks for your time and commentary.

Thomas

WOTC has recently come out with a second miniatures line, replacing their Chainmail brand. Now simpy D&D Miniatures, the game is setup almost exactly like what you've described. I mean, the "points" structure is how nearly every wargame describes building its armies (this unit is worth 2 points, this is worth 10, all bands/armies must be no more than 50 points, et cetera).

The Entry Packs, and now some Dragon magazine issues, even include map tiles; each player puts down their map tiles (randomised, different kinds of rooms, and some tiles have special effects) on a large white fold-out battlemap (think a heavy-paper Chessex) to build the dungeon for that game.

Not to dash your hopes or anything, just thought I'd give the tip. You can read up on the game over at Wizards.com, easy to find.

My hopes are far from dashed. Mainly since i won't have to purchase anything new since i already have a 3E D&D book... Though i do appreciate the heads up...

Thomas

I like the basic structure so far, but a little bit more detail would be nice. I had been toying with a similar idea, but with Encounter Cards (or tables) by CR with traps, monsters, items etc...

How would the points work, more specifically?

It seems to me that is not 'Gamist', but instead simply 'Game'. Just like Talisman, or Necromunda. I don't really see anything in there that gives it that undetermined spark that makes it a roleplaying game, rather than a board game or a war game. Maybe I'm missing something?

Sounds like fun though.

A couple of things:

I am not satisfied with WotC's new miniature game... It seems too simplified and doesn't account for levels and powering up. I think i'm going to go forward with this project.

NeuroZombie wrote: How would the points work, more specifically?

Mr Jack wrote: It seems to me that is not 'Gamist', but instead simply 'Game'. Just like Talisman, or Necromunda. I don't really see anything in there that gives it that undetermined spark that makes it a roleplaying game, rather than a board game or a war game. Maybe I'm missing something?

I can't wait to see more of it. I have been looking for something like this to run for my family when we don't have a group for regular rpg.

Ok, now i'm down to the two hardest steps. Balancing Points so that they buy what they need to, and playtesting. I'll keep you posted.

Thomas

I am interested in how this turns out. For a while now I've had this idea of replacing gold pieces, treasure, and Experience Points in D&D with a single mechanic I've been calling "Effectiveness Points" (EP for purposes of this post) when I think about it. Basically, instead of giving PCs all sorts of different rewards for encounters, you give them EP, which the player can convert to magic items, experience points, treasure, etc. as desired. The way I thought it would work is to have some sort of standard conversion, and then you could determine the normal rewards for the encounter, convert the XP and raw GP value to EP, and let each player decide what to do with his or her share. Just some food for thought...

Yeah, that's sort of what i was thinking. The problem i've got right now is that i want these Whatever Points to be pretty granular such that a level is only 3 or 4 of them. Also i'm going to let you earn them through some method other than a direct XP conversion (something like 1 per level of enemy you kill) so i don't have a conversion table set up. I really just need to sit down and come up with a reasonable conversion rate (5 per level, 1 per 1000 gold, something...)

Thomas