Topic: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
Started by: Jack Spencer Jr
Started on: 10/17/2003
Board: RPG Theory
On 10/17/2003 at 5:15pm, Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
I read this review here
Tom Chick wrote: It's mainly a tactical combat game, but it has enough backstory and character development to merit dual genre classification as an RPG. Characters go up levels and learn new skills, but there are no quests, dialogue trees, or inventory management. In fact, there is almost no strategic level to the game, which consists almost solely of a linear sequence of heavily scripted scenarios.
This seems to suggest that roleplaying is a combination of backstory, character development, interaction with other character (especially NPCs) and inventory management, generally with a stategic layer, either in tacticle comabt, being able to ask the right NPC the right question or what have you.
I'm in a weird enough place right now to wonder if that's really all there is to it?
On 10/17/2003 at 5:26pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
eh, CRPGs...there are only two requirements for a computer/console game to be called an RPG. You have to be an avatar and that avatar has to change in some fashion choosable by the player beyond simply picking up stuff. This second usually takes the form of some sort leveling or skill producing mechanism.
If it has those two features the computer reviewers will call it an RPG. Why not. If the latest batch of glorified hatchback wagons with big wheels can be called an SUV, any button masher can be called an RPG.
I'm playing Baldur's Gate* Dark Alliance right now. Is it an RPG. Not in any sense we'd acknowledge. The only choices you have as a player is whether to clear out the right hallway first or the left, and whether to kill the boss with arrows or melee. You will seek out and kill every monster on the screen. You will not interact with anyone who it is not scripted for you to interact with. And you will eventually see every cut scene there is. It doesn't get any more railroaded than that. Yet my guy levels up...so its an RPG. In reality its a graphic novel being told through the medium of a 3d third person shooter rather than panels on a page.
* As a strange aside, despite the reference to Baldur's Gate and claims to be using 3E rules...there is not a single rule in the game that is even remotely D&D other than 6 stats rated 3-18. Armor is added piecemeal and I know have an armor class of over 70, and weapon damage is 33-117. The feats are completely made up for the game.
On 10/17/2003 at 5:35pm, Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
OK, minor clairification. Actually, major clairification. I'm not refering to CRPGs, in spite of being inspited by a CRPG review here.
Is a table top pencil & paper RPG just backstory, character development, interaction with other characters, and inventory management?
On 10/17/2003 at 5:40pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
ehhh, I'm not sure I'm following you. The review where those components were listed as being the defining factors was for a CRPG. If you're asking whether those same factors also define TRPGs, the answer is obviously no.
In fact, so obviously no, that I'm either not following you, or the question has really been asked and answered several dozen times already...
On 10/17/2003 at 5:52pm, Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
Valamir wrote: In fact, so obviously no, that I'm either not following you, or the question has really been asked and answered several dozen times already...
Obvious? Perhaps. Done before? I'll bet.
So what am I missing, then?
On 10/17/2003 at 6:01pm, anonymouse wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
Jack,
I see what you're getting at, and I agree with you (more or less; I'd change some wording a bit), bit it's a irrelevant. This is akin to getting Campbellian with a story; break it down, they're all about the Hero Overcoming the Stuff, et cetera.
On 10/18/2003 at 1:12am, Comte wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
Is a table top pencil & paper RPG just backstory, character development, interaction with other characters, and inventory management?
Yes and no.
I hate answering questions like that. At its most basic, basest level yes the only thing an RPG is, is a list of elements that you put up there. I noticed that you left out overaching story line...after awhile I realized that it really isn't nessisary for an rpg.
On its most advanced level it can be an intelectual excersize that allows the players to delve into the depths of thier personality and learn something about themselves.
It is a verstile hobby, some people just do it as a way to hang out with thier mates for a few hours before going back to work or some such other activity. Other people take it seriously to the point where they write dense, complicated articles on how to roleplay/gm better. Neither is wrong per say. Its just that you are going to get as much out of the hobby as you put in, if you want it to be more than your list then it is more than possible to do so. After all the creation of a new person and intense exploration of that persona can teach you quite a bit about yourself. And that is just scratching the surface.
On 10/28/2003 at 4:02am, Noon wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
Jack Spencer Jr wrote: OK, minor clairification. Actually, major clairification. I'm not refering to CRPGs, in spite of being inspited by a CRPG review here.
Is a table top pencil & paper RPG just backstory, character development, interaction with other characters, and inventory management?
I suspect table top RPG's actually probe some of the weaknesses of the human psyche. Pretty much to tap into a dream like world...that one you visit when you sleep, where giant mushrooms growing out of the cieling is just fine. With a little voluntary lowering of defenses, some varied material and a little cult of personality, the same is produced during the day.
So they do include all those things that you mention. In fact they include so many things like that probably in part to induce the effect. When there are more options than you can concentrate on at once, the way it overwhelms you tends to put you in an acceptance state. Some cults seem to use information overload to make people more pliable too. RPG's tend to do it in a gamist cause, though.
So RPG's are about kickstarting that dream state, like other media do as well. But RPG's also include interacting/influencing in that dream...though that can cause drop outs in the dream state sometimes.
On 10/31/2003 at 1:06am, James Holloway wrote:
RE: From CRPGs: Is that all it is?
Jack Spencer Jr wrote:
Is a table top pencil & paper RPG just backstory, character development, interaction with other characters, and inventory management?
Well, I tell you what: I seldom bother with inventory management. And many players do OK without backstory. So that's two down. And I'm looking suspiciously in the direction of "character development," too.