Hello, Forge. I've been reading stuff here for a few weeks, mainly on this forum. I'd now like to ask a question, and I hope it's not a silly one.

I originally posted this on RPG.net, but received very few answers. Wulf Corbett was helpful, but I'd still like to see if anybody has any other views.

The HeroQuest rules indicate that all followers who join hero bands are to be paid for in HP (see example, p96). Now, hero bands can 'vary tremendously in size, from a few heroes to hundreds or even thousands of people' (p92). Who is paying the HP costs for this many followers?

In other words, is there a way of determining the numbers that flock to a hero band? At what point does the narrator just start saying 'X number NPCs join your hero band, paying their own HP costs'? If a player wanted a regiment of cavalry, how would you go about it?

Similarly, in the examples on pp92-4, Bill, Christine and Rick have 'signed the contract' and therefore get the benefit of the guardian's magic. Does this imply that they also paid HP to join the band?

Hi there,

Welcome to the Forge!

The important thing to remember about Followers or any other HeroQuest ability is that their impact on play is exactly indicated by the number associated with them.

Say I were to have a Relationship defined as a huge nation, and my buddy has a Relationship defined as a small group of outlaws. Don't I have a huge "advantage" over him? Isn't that "unfair"? And what about (oh my God) balance?

But wait ... his score for his ability is 17, and so is mine. That means that for purposes of Advantage Points, augmentating, or straight rolling, his ability and mine are ... the same. If I draw on that Relationship to plead my case in court, it's the same "oomph" as when he draws on his to boost his chances of cutting a deal with a shady ship captain.

Yes, details differ. My Relationship makes me eligible for (say) the dole line when I don't have a job. His gets him a swift and unofficial food source during the same period. But this distinction applies to any and all comparisons of similar abilities; they are useful or not useful, or carry this or that implication, in differing circumstances.

I like to think of the HeroQuest system (and the Sorcerer system, and The Pool, and Dust Devils, and InSpectres) as only existing in the context of a given situation and conflict. The character doesn't float in space, to be compared with other characters in the same lack of context. They operate in situations and do stuff, and in many cases, abilities have surprising utility in unexpected ways.

The point is that just because two characters have similar abilities, they do not have to be "equally effective" at all times and in all ways. In fact, such an expectation is fairly non-productive in terms of building and generating an exciting and emotionally-engaging story through play.

I think defining Relationships at different levels (group size) is a fine example, and that mentally disconnecting the magnitude of the group size from the magnitude of the actual score value is a very important concept for playing this game.

Best,
Ron

Hi,

Both Ron and Wulf have good points. Except that they don't answer your original questions.

The term 'follower' has a very specific meaning in HeroQuest.

HeroQuest, p. 277 wrote:
follower: A character attached to a hero and controlled by a player.

Similarly, in the examples on pp92-4, Bill, Christine and Rick have 'signed the contract' and therefore get the benefit of the guardian's magic. Does this imply that they also paid HP to join the band?

droog wrote: thus that one could pay 1HP to get an army as a single retainer (for example). Is there anybody who has considered this?

Thank you for your replies, gentlemen. I hope I'm not being too obtuse. Overall I'm very much with the HQ program, but there are just a few wrinkles I'd like to iron out to my own satisfaction.

The point is that just because two characters have similar abilities, they do not have to be "equally effective" at all times and in all ways. In fact, such an expectation is fairly non-productive in terms of building and generating an exciting and emotionally-engaging story through play.

If other people (i.e. narrator characters) want to join the band, the narrator can just say so: "Fifteen Bison Riders joins the band."

You must be a member of a hero band to benefit from its magic. It costs hero point(s) to join a hero band. Does that answer your question?

Hi,

Eg, if I purchase Troop of Horse 13 (1HP), can I walk about with four retainers all the time, or should the narrator insist on only one retainer being extant at any one time? Or should it be entirely up to negotiation?

In another example, if I have a player whose character wants to raise an army to attack Furthest, should I just arbitrarily decide whether the required amount of warriors is available and willing? Or, indeed, allow the player to decide? Perhaps a mechanism similar to recruiting raiders (from Barbarian Adventures) could be used?

Quote:
If other people (i.e. narrator characters) want to join the band, the narrator can just say so: “Fifteen Bison Riders joins the band.”

How do you suggest I handle these Bison Riders? How do they relate to the leaders of the band (given that they are PCs)? As I say, I’ve done similar things in other games and I can handle it. I was just hoping that there might be a less arbitrary way of dealing with the situation, given HQ’s strengths in this area.

Quote:
You must be a member of a hero band to benefit from its magic. It costs hero point(s) to join a hero band. Does that answer your question?

Well, it’s just that there is no mention of HP when the characters join, while in many other examples the HP costs are explicitly mentioned. Furthermore, when the players form the Tri Lambs, they must pay 1HP--would not that be 2HP if they had joined the travel agent’s band (again, later they are charged 2HP instead of 3HP for their new band)? I was wondering if there was any provision for allowing certain functions of a guardian to affect associates (perhaps this is Hengal’s ‘only temporary’ membership)?

First of all, Peter, thank you for your exhaustive explanation. I'm saving it to disc for future reference.

The example heroes do not join a hero band on page 92. They are just employed by a band. Therefore, they pay no hero point cost. Also, they don't have access to the guardian's functions. Therefore the Tri Lambs is their first hero band, not their second. If they had joined their employer's band, your hero point cost calculations above would have been correct, though.

Oh, crap ... you are right. I didn't read the example properly. Sorry. Supid me. I guess temporary members can benefit from the functions as well. I think the example is a mess that leads to more questions than it answers.

Give me a day or so to read the examples more carefully. Something is most definitely wrong here.

One quick thought, though: A narrator is always at liberty to give player heroes stuff without them having to pay anything for it.

Cheers,

/Peter N

Peter Nordstrand wrote: One quick thought, though: A narrator is always at liberty to give player heroes stuff without them having to pay anything for it.

... The problem occurs each time a hero quits a band ... (my emphasis)

But does that mean that they got charged HP for that temporary membership? Especially since the example on p92 does not mention HP at all?

I did think that I read somewhere that employees of a hero band could benefit from guardian functions, but damned if I can find it again.

Droog,

p95: Membership Requirements. 2nd paragraph.

... no one can join for free. You must spend hero points seperately for your hero and each of his followers...

droog wrote:
I take your point about abilities operating in context, but given that the Hero Wars are here, will a troop of soldiers not be useful in many, many situations? It's not abstract equity in character abilities I'm thinking of so much as the player's ability to affect the story and hog screen-time.

I would make this a game matter. Firstly where are these soldiers from and why are they following the hero? A petty noble could afford such out of his own pocket if he chooses - mercenaries, feudal retainers or whatever. Secondly I would look at potential plot lines - mercenaries need paying and are likely to go off to another employer if the rewards are better or the risks lower, feudal retainers mean feudal obligations both to protect the hero's land and to support his liege lord. As the strength of the force increases so do the obligations.

For affecting the story and hogging the action remember retainers don't usually act independently. They are there to support the hero so the fact that they go off somewhere and get drunk is only an issue if you as narrator decide the hero has to bail them out of jail.

In the context of hero bands and guardians I would tend to let them join without charging hero points provided the guardian provided there's a decent set of obligations to balance the benefits. The examples given in the rules seem to me to be bands formed to give the players extra magic rather than for them to make a commitment to a cause or storyline. So the hero who wanted to lead a cavelry regiment would have to build up his abilities and relationships so he got appointed and even then would be obligated to perform the duties and follow orders to remain in post. The player would have to spend a lot of hero points building up skills and relationships but just one to join the regiment and one to cement each promotion.

How do you suggest I handle these Bison Riders? How do they relate to the leaders of the band (given that they are PCs)? As I say, I've done similar things in other games and I can handle it. I was just hoping that there might be a less arbitrary way of dealing with the situation, given HQ's strengths in this area.

I would say why the Bison riders are joining the band which will indicate whether they are likely to stay after the adventure. If they are the players can cement them as followers. Usually there will be an in game obligation on the heros to retain their support.

Mac Logo wrote:
I see no reason not to charge the hero point cost, even though the example doesn't explicitly say so. It was a half year contract with benefits.

Mr. Nordstrand has it correct... in HeroQuest, large groups like hero bands, military companies, etc. should be handled as Communities rather than Followers. The leaders of those groups are wonderful Retainers and Sidekicks, though, presuming that they are the heroes' lieutenants. They (the leaders) make great Patrons or Allies otherwise.

Good point, Mike. I'm looking forward to seeing mass combat at some point. I envision it like this, potentially:

It's an extended conflict between the two commanders (assuming one is a PC). Their armies merely lend community support to each commander. The result of the conflict will tell how badly the character's Ability rating to command those troops is affected. Representing casualties, and/or lack of confidence in the leader as is appropriate. "Healing" represents the wounded healing, or new recruits, or whathaveyou. Pretty nifty, eh?

Anyone see a problem with doing it that way?

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: Anyone see a problem with doing it that way?

Thank you all for your replies so far. I'm finding this a very helpful and thought-provoking forum.