Hello,

Clinton and I are reasonably cetain that the poster Falconis is responsible for the recent 40 minutes of downtime, by overloading the server with some kind of email ("Denial of service"). We've taken the various administrative steps you take when that happens.

There is now a new forum on the Forge, called the Inactive File, into which all such posts as his beginning one, and the recent abusive one, will be routinely moved. In these cases, no ghost topic will remain in the original forum.

The posts will of course be preserved for posterity and documentation (i.e. not deleted). The Inactive File forum, as its title implies, will be a locked forum.

Best,
Ron (in consult with Clinton)

* whoops, we left a ghost topic for one of the threads by accident - the policy is not to do that, but hey, we're just figuring this out

I just don't understand that kind of attitude (uh, I mean his, not yours).

"Hmm... that site is not for me, so I must try to spoil it for everyone else too". Truly bizarre. That's the same kind of mentality that writes viruses.

Brian.

If I may, I do want to go on record as saying that I think the hammer came down on Falconis much too hard. His site was game design related, not one of those silly "win by getting hits" sites. It certainly belonged in Connections with a explanation of what Falconis Designs is and what they offer, but I don't think it was Spam. It was a perfectly normal typical introductory post by someone whose biggest crime was not lurking long enough to learn that we do things differently here.

Further, this forum is called "Site Discussion".

From a certain perspective I can easily see how one would think that this is the forum where you talk about your own site.

Honestly. I'm more than a little embarassed by our initial treatment of him. That certainly doesn't excuse his later response, but I hope we exercise a little more care in dealing with new posters in the future.

While generally good advice, Ralph, I can't agree in this case.

Clinton called it spam, and he's right, though there's other ways to go about saying such, I don't see much problem with his reply to a "Hey, look at my site! Loooook!" post. Much more unacceptable was the individual's childish reply. Newbie or not, offended or not, that was simply unacceptable.

"Hey, that was uncalled for. I don't think my announcement is spam!" and some sort of explanation about the site or questions about why it was tagged as such are acceptable.

Subtle insinuations about Clinton's intellect (or lack of it) and sneering challenges to his authority because he "needs to learn to lock a thread" and that he "obviously doesn't know what spam is" are most definitely not acceptable. Understandable, perhaps, but still not acceptable.

Especially and especially when one walks into a community, doesn't bother to check out the rules or reasons for them, and and becomes incensed and insulting when it's rules of behavior do not conform to that individual's desires.

In cases like this, it is nothing more than hiding selfishness behind righteousness, and not a very mature method of response or dialogue.

Had the second post never appeared, with its insults towards the administrator and obviously nothing more than an attempt to spread ill-will and insult, perhaps I'd be less inclined to disagree with you, but not given the whole of the situation.

As I said, perhaps the response is understandable, but just because something is understandable does not make it acceptable.

Well, as I said, it doesn't excuse his later response.

But a "look at my site" post made to the "site discussion" forum, where the site is a legitimate game design site is hardly spam. Inappropriate newbie behavior, yes. But rubbing his nose in it was, IMO also inappropriate

I agree that his subsequent behavior was childish and reprehensible. But, honestly, I think we crossed the line.

Ron, Clinton, what about renaming this specific forum to "Forge site discussion" or a similar name?

Some people miss out on the little letters* and may cause these spam "accidents". It seems like an insignificant change but I figured "preventive treatment" may help in this case. It's like the difference between "pass me the salt" and "pass me the salt, please" - small and critical :)

Cheers,
Nadav

*"This forum is for any requests or problems with indie-rpgs.com"

I suggest that after this little blip it might be time to look again at the "register-posting lag time" issue - where the newly registered cannot post for a designated period.

Sure if someone is determined to spam the site they will still be able to do it, but a little "getting to know you" time will increase the likelihood that those eager to sign up and post will discover the appropriate ettiquette threads and get a feel for the site and what is and is not appropriate.

Risks? The forge seems a little more elitist, may frustrate the newly regsitered a little and a useful post to a discussion from a newbie may be delayed.

Alan.

Was it a legitimate game site? It looked like a computer RPG site...

I think it was a legit site. But I think the real problem was his approach.

On the same day, or thereabouts, a fella from England (www.pitt.uk) posted about his site onto this forum. He got an entirely different welcome than did falconis. www.pitt etc. asked where he should post, and made a favorable comment about the Forge. Ron replied cordially. Falconis, on the other hand, simply asked for input on his own site and directed anyone who had interest to respond on his forum.

I didn't see falconis' post per se as spam, but that _kind_ of post--of which these two are examples--certainly is.

--EC

A post which just says 'Check out my site' and give a link is spam, regardless of what the link points to. I would hazard a guess that Clinton didn't even look at the site pointed to before condemning it. I, personally, try never to visit sites linked in this way; I feel it only encourages them.

I think Ralph is wrong; I think the post got the response it deserved.

I did look at Falconis' site - it appeared to be about computer/video role-playing games, not pen-and-paper role-playing games. (As a side note: man, we need new terminology. These two things are as different as go-carts and eighteen-wheelers.)

I do take Ralph's comments heavily, though. As I said to Ron yesterday, most spammers - and Falconis was one - post once and disappear. Making a slight bit of lightness at their expense is harmless. I was proven wrong, of course, by a spammer who stayed around.

Just to make clear, when I said "we" in the above comments, I meant it as we as a community. I noticed the same kind of unnecessary hostility towards Apeiron's first post from a variety of people at about the same time. Fortuneately, he was big enough to let it slide.

Generally speaking we've been much gentler at breaking in new posters, including those who make the mistake of thinking this is a CRPG site.

You guys don't know me. I've posted a couple of times when I thought I might add 'two cents,' but otherwise I listen and learn.

Now I understand how someone (i.e. you guys) who has spent mega-time and mega-effort to develop this site into something good can get a little peeved at a sudden drop of a post like Falconis'.

To be objective, sure he screwed up. He should have read more about the site and the rules. Definitely. But also, I think dropping the bomb on him like that was a bit rude. Sometimes, like Apeiron's message, a person's thoughts don't get fully express into words. Someone writing what they are thinking from the top of their head may express an idea in a way that no one else comprehended. Everyone else may see a casual, elbow-in-ribs comment as an attack on their character, for instance.

Debates are great and arguments can be constructive, but words against someone's character, intelligence level, and other personal attributes should be left elsewhere. I feel this forum is a place to express thoughts on games (the pen and paper variety of course) not school ground banter.

I hope my thoughts are agreeable and not seen as being demeaning and condescending.

As, my grandmother used to say, "Let's play nice."

Eric

Any suggestions on how to make the site better would be much appreciated, but please post it in my forum.

Hey those were some good replys!!!

Falconis, since we're clearly not using the technology to your satisfaction (deleted posts, smileys, etc.), what is it you would like to get out of the Forge? What do you wish to discuss?

To clarify, this site is about "pen-and-paper" role-playing games, rather than computer role-playing games, which seems to be your interest perhaps. If you are also interested in pen-and-paper RPGs, then what would you like to discuss here? By all means, start a discussion or join one with some replies of your own.

But, please understand this forum has a very specific group agreement, and that it is very different from many forums on the Internet. For example, we do not, as a rule, delete posts, despite having the capability to do so. This software does in fact have that function (I am allowed to use it on the single forum I moderate, and I know it applies to other forums I do not moderate).

If you are not interested in discussing pen-and-paper role-playing, please re-consider posting here. I'm sure there are many forums available that are more suitable to your interests.

If your interest is picking on this forum just to see the response you receive, that's too bad. I hope that's not your intention.

Matt Snyder wrote: Falconis, since we're clearly not using the technology to your satisfaction (deleted posts, smileys, etc.), what is it you would like to get out of the Forge? What do you wish to discuss?

To clarify, this site is about "pen-and-paper" role-playing games, rather than computer role-playing games, which seems to be your interest perhaps. If you are also interested in pen-and-paper RPGs, then what would you like to discuss here? By all means, start a discussion or join one with some replies of your own.

But, please understand this forum has a very specific group agreement, and that it is very different from many forums on the Internet. For example, we do not, as a rule, delete posts, despite having the capability to do so. This software does in fact have that function (I am allowed to use it on the single forum I moderate, and I know it applies to other forums I do not moderate).

If you are not interested in discussing pen-and-paper role-playing, please re-consider posting here. I'm sure there are many forums available that are more suitable to your interests.

If your interest is picking on this forum just to see the response you receive, that's too bad. I hope that's not your intention.

Hello,

It's my job to ask that question. And I'm asking it, and hoping you will answer.

Best,
Ron

quote="Falconis"]Dude I don't believe its you job to ask me that

What Matt said was a mature and respectful way of helping you understand what this forum is for. That comment of yours was out of line. He didn't have to have the 'job' to tell you that. It's understood by the people who post here and he, I repeat, respectfully explained it to you.

I think you may have stepped on too many toes. They just want you to understand why the forum exists in the first place, and steer the people who want to talk about other things somewhere else.

It's nothing personal.

TheRedSoup wrote: quote="Falconis"]Dude I don't believe its you job to ask me that

Falc, I'm on record as saying I think the initial response to your post was out of line.

However, since then your behavior has been petty and childish. I've yet to see even an acknowledgement of the issues at hand from you. Just wasted off hand flippant comments. Whatever environment you may be used to elsewhere, you will find the Forge demands a high calibre of posting content and intellectual honesty.

If you want to be a part of this community I encourage you to look around and learn the ropes. If at this point you are interested only in sniping and making ostensibly clever remarks, then I encourage you to look elsewhere.

It is indeed ALL of our jobs to help bring new members up to speed on the Forge. I am sorry that our initial effort in your case was not one of our best introductions. However, you've not made any effort to participate in the process.

I think you need to seriously evaluate whether you want to be a part of this community at all. If you do, then like a Home Owners Association, we have a few "restrictive covenants" that govern member behavior that you need to be willing to accept.

If you are not interested in joining us, or are unwilling to abide by our rules, then goodbye and thanks for stopping by.

Ralph's right, Falconis. You really should decide.

I private-messaged you to ask about this, and both Matt's question and mine still stand.

Consider it a friendly invitation, but it's also a choice.

Best,
Ron

This is probably an out of line comment , but hell, everyone is using kid gloves on this guy and getting nothing but snarkiness and rudeness in return. It's time to realise that this guy isn't responding.

Falconis, in case it's not obvious by now (in which case you're a moron) you're not welcome here unles you change your attitude. Either do so or naff off.

Brian.

Honestly, methinks some of you have been hanging around the Forge so much you've forgotten what a troll looks like...as well as the attendant, traditional flamebait they leave in their wake.

Brian and Raven, calling the guy a moron only accerbates the problem. It's precisely what he would like us to do. He's likely to, you know, stop being annoying when we stop getting annoyed. And, frankly and honestly, I'm not annoyed. I mean, if we get one problematic poster in many, many months, I for one won't complain. I have not forgotten what the "rest" is like.

Matt, while I see where you're coming from, I'm looking at the pattern thus far presented by his statements and his behavior, and calling what I'm seeing.

In any case, if I'm calling anyone a moron, it's you guys for even responding to it at all. This IS the troll-trap -- it isn't blatant, flaming, "FAGS WILL BURN IN HELL!" kind of stuff, but its par for the course: just enough to cause a reaction.

Trolls like to see people scurrying about making a fuss over them, in some fashion or other -- even a polite fuss -- and that's exactly what's getting made.

Warning sent, I now step out of all this to let it do as it will. And of course, if Falconis proves me wrong and becomes a valuable contributor here, well, good for him! I'll be pleased.

Dudes, am I the only guy who has usenet experience here? Falconis is a TROLL. Tee ar oh el el. Put him in the dumpster and move on. You've given him a major Forge flap and a TWO PAGE THREAD! You guys are such a bountiful catch, he can't even haul the net over the side of the boat. The guy is probably laughing his 14 year old head off. I hope Ron and Clinton have the last laugh by nailing his butt for DoS.

Except for Falconis, no one else post, please. I'm trying to have a dialogue. It may or may not happen, but it sure's hell won't as long as y'all keep typing.

Best,
Ron

Sorry my poeple I was in school. I just want to reply to a couple of things.
first off I'm 17. Second I DO think its funny what you people have posted in this so called "trap". And third all of you must be freaks to have compared me to some fantasy figure such as a troll. OH I bet you where all waiting eagerly for my reply. Wow (here comes the childish remark) you guys are suckers.

'K. Let that be a lesson to everyone.

And this thread is now closed and locked. I was originally planning to split its contents off to the Inactive File, if they proved to be non-substantive. However, I'm letting it stand because Forge members need to see that leave it to the moderator is the only effective policy in cases like this.

Best,
Ron