Hi folks - I posted this on rpg.net but am not getting much feedback, so I thought I'd see if anyone nibbled here. Basically, this isn't Glorantha, and I haven't talked at all (IIRC) about the Ilthar setting here on the boards, but I don't really care about that - I'm just interested in cool ideas at this point. Anyone who wants to help me flesh this out is invited to do so; anyone who wants to make use of this in their own way should feel free.

One brief setting note though - there's no 'other side' in the campaign world I wrote this for - one of the conceits of Advent is that everything is handled materialistically - the gods are physical beings that live on hundreds of moons above the planets, spirits are essentially psychic concentrations of the magical 'stuff' of the world, etc.

Some points I'm wondering about:

1) Abilities. What the heck kind of abilities, if any, do you have just for having dragon blood? You don't need combat abilities here because of the way the affinities and feats work out. Maybe Speak Dragon's Tongue or the like. OTOH, maybe few or no abilities would be good, to compensate for the fact that these affinities are going to be able to augment like half the rolls in a given session, or more.

2) Virtues. Do these seem right?

3) Dragon Feats. I had trouble coming up with a long enough list for the Essence and Soul categories. 'Essence' here is being thought of vaguely along the lines of the Greco-Christian Pneuma, with breath weapons and smell abilities and the like, but also includes 'uses' of the body that aren't necessarily tied into the soul - well, OK, so maybe it's inconsistent how I'm dividing these up at this point. If all my ideas were clear I wouldn't bother to ask for help. Anyway, here it is...

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Dragon Magic is a fourth type of magic beyond that granted by the gods, that tapped by wizards, and that which is part of the fabric of nature itself. Generally speaking, it is the ability of those with draconic blood to emulate true dragons, which includes physical and magical powers. Dragon magic abilities are not available as part of common magic, and there is no 'contest' to become dragon-blooded; one either is born such or one is not. Those who have such blood, unawakened, may learn dragon magic abilities as part of common magic, for passive use. Those whose blood is Awakened may use the general Dragon Affinities passively so long as there is a reasonable explanation, and may use the various Dragon Feats actively at a -10 penalty, or -5 if they have Concentrated in Dragon Magic. (Only those with awakened blood can concentrate; but those who have any dragon-blood at all cannot concentrate in any other discipline.) Those who are fully Blooded have started down the road to becoming dragons themselves, and gain three feats in each affinity they know. Dragon Affinities are very flexible in application, so referees should make sure to demand plausible rationalizations for augmenting with them. Also, the color and type of dragon should be specified at least from the time of Awakening; certain dragon feats are accessible specially to dragons of certain types, and not others.

Homeland: Any in theory, but most dragon-blooded are found in areas near the Kingdom of Ilthar, which was the ancient breeding ground of the race.

Abilities: ?

Virtues: Arrogant, Greedy, Lover of Beauty, Proud, Vain, Voracious

Affinities and Feats:

Dragon's Form (Become Large, Dragon's Strength, Fight on the Wing, Fly Fast, Grow Talons, Iron Scales, Resist [energy type(s) appropriate to color], Sinuous Body, Sprout Wings

Dragon's Essence (Attune Landscape [of type relevant to color], Breathe [energy type appropriate to color], Smell Gold, Smell Intruder, Smell Jewels, Smell Magic, other abilities relevant to color (e.g. Black Dragons can Summon Miasma, etc.)

Dragon's Soul (Awe and Terrify, Hypnotic Gaze, Resist Magic, See in Darkness, See for Miles, Show Dragon Soul)

Secret: Become Dragon. Like Heroforming, this allows the Blooded to take on the form of a dragon of their own color - actually, to become that dragon. This is a very powerful version of heroforming, since dragons are so mighty. The greater secret of the Dragon-Blooded is actually to permanently take on this dragonform, creating a new dragon but removing the character from active play.

Disadvantages: Gain the Deep Sleeper ability at 17. Also, if the dragon blood is ever detected or reported to authorities in the Kingdom of Ilthar, the character gains the Hunted relationship to some appropriate organization (Witch Hunters, Temple of Scalus, King's Guard, etc.), also at 17 and going up one after every failed attempt to catch the character.

I would just call the basic ability Dragon-blooded and make it the prerequisite for any use of Dragon Magic. Heroes with high scores in the ability could be said to have a deeper bond to their dragon ancestors and could use it to augment attempts to work Dragon Magic. Your choices of feats within each affinity seem reasonably well-developed already, and I cannot think of anything offhandedly that would improve them. You might want to look at Bill Willingham's Ironwood comic series, as the main character is the offspring of a dragon in human form. A caveat, however: the characters frequently engage in semi-explicit sexual activity. I recommend giving the series a pass if you have delicate sensibilities.

You may find some cool ideas within Greg Stafford's sterling treatise on draconic history and religion in Glorantha, but all of the material on Dragon Magic itself has been excised (mainly because it was written for RuneQuest and is thus incompatible with HeroQuest). The Path of Immanent Mastery, a Kralorelan school of false dragon worship, gave its adherents "feats" such as Breathe Fire, Dragon's Hide, Dragon's Teeth, Dragon's Claws, and Dragon's Wings. The cult secret taught initiates how to merge these feats into Become Dragon.

Hmmm. Gives me lots of ideas for how to model the Dragonlords in my Shadow World conversion. Neat. :-)

Mike

Thanks to both Mikes - anyone else?

Michael Schwartz wrote:

"I recommend giving the series a pass if you have delicate sensibilities."

I take it this was for other readers of the thread, since we've met a few times in 'real life' and I think you know me well enough to know that my sensibilities are anything but...

I like the 'dragon-blooded' ability idea - I had thought of that, but not precisely how to integrate it. If you were using active dragon magic you could use your dragon-blooded to augment it, but when using dragon magic passively (for augments to other things) you couldn't. Would make for some interesting choices on how to spend xp...also, probably I'd require Dragon-Blooded at the 1w2 level before you could learn the secret.

Any other suggestions for improvement? I have a slightly different idea of how to split the three affinities up (in particular the difference between essence, which is the ability to do dragon stuff that's not tied down to the physical features of the dragon's body, and soul, which is basically the psionic/mystical type abilities that come directly from the dragon's mind influencing the world), which may change where some of the abilities get put. But anyway, thanks for the feedback...

I think in addition to "Dragon-Blooded" I might give them all "Sense Dragonblood"...that way they can sniff each other out. You get an augment to your Sense Dragonblood based on the other guy's Dragon-Blooded, or in the case of real dragons their highest ability period.

You could also just make Dragon-blooded a keyword, and include Sense Dragonblood as one of the abilities granted by it. You could also use this to provide other unusual abilities as well. If having Dragonblood means near-immortality and -immunity to disease, for example, you could also include Resist Aging and Resist Disease under the keyword as well. Lots of possibilities here...

These are some of my recent ideas about the Dragons in Glorantha -- they are riffs on Stafford's ideas.

I needed good motivations for my Dragonewt NPCs -- I was sick of
playing them like the goofy cousins of the Gorn (that's classic Star
Trek for you young'uns). I agree with current thinking that
Dragonewts don't really make suitable PCs -- but recalling that a few
Role Players ARE capable of creating complex Eurmali characters, I
dug up some material that would allow me to create good HeroQuest
characters out of the 'Newts. I have some speculations about how to
employ HQ relationship and community rules to Newt characters.
Dragonewts must invest heavily in Personality, Ability, and
Relationship traits if they wish to flourish because pumping up magic
to heroic levels will prevent them from reincarnating in higher forms.

I was reviewing some of Greg's writing about the Dragonewt Pantheon
(http://www.glorantha.com/library/elder/dragonewts-
mythos.html#ancestral-dragons) and Simon Hibbs' webiste about the
kingdom of ignorance and had some of my old notions about the 'newts
changed.

RECENT DISCOVERIES
-- 'Newts are individuals pursuing their own enlightenment -- they
are not part of some robot hive-mind
-- Newts have to make personal choices between exercising their
potent magic and pursuing this enlightenment.


SOURCES FOR TYING ORIGINAL CHARACTERS TO COMPLEX CULTURE
1) 'Newts have Relationships to their race, their culture and their
particular communities -- but like all HeroQuest characters they are
individuals in tension with their own cultures as well as enemy
cultures. These tensions should intensify as the Hero Wars grow
2) 'Newts have particular cultures, affected by their ancestry from
one of the 6 Ancestral Dragons (Being, Thought, Spirit, Experience,
Silence, Secrets). Individual newts purusing their path to dragonhood
may find themselves in accord or discord with the biases that their
ancestry gives them.
3) Newt nests might have allegiances with one or more True Dragons,
and like any other HeroQuest relationships, these allegiances
condition the actions of individuals.

MYTHIC/MYSTIC ASPECTS IMPORTANT FOR DRAGON CHARACTERS
Dragon divinity exists outside of the physical world of the elements
and is both part of and out side of the cosmic compromise.
Thus they don't partake of the religo-ideoloico struggles between
element or form affiliated races (Growy Elves vs. Makey Dwarves, Dark
Trolls vs. the Air/Sun affiliated humans, etc.). They also have a
different attitude towards Chaos than the elder races -- which might
bring them closer to some Lunars. Here is the relevant myth.

"The primary action of the Cosmic Dragon is his conflict with the
monster called Orxili... It attacked and grappled with the Cosmic
Dragon as it meditated, trying to interfere with its composure. For a
moment the Cosmic Dragon was disturbed, but the dragon power is as
unchangeable as the Void and Orxili was doomed. The Cosmic Dragon set
forth the Six Principles and with each recitation one of the
monster's limbs was torn off and cast into emptiness. ... The body of
Orxili was placed in the center of the world and the Cosmic Dragon
set it spinning and wrapped itself about the body, cutting it off
from the outer, more mystical realms. The body inside changed and
grew, and was called the Cosmic Egg."

CONCLUSION: Glorantha was made out of Chaos, and the entire created
world is a distraction from the mystic completeness of Ourobouros.
Chaos is just one part of Creation.
IMPLICATION FOR CHARACTERS: They are trying to get out of Creation
and they will not regard Chaos foes as the greatest imaginable
obstacles to their mystical illumination. Orlanthi (and Uroxi) will
be most displeased if/when they learn this.

CHARACTER MOTIVATION
The classic texts provide a series of readily-playable motivations
for every 'Newt character. Like mystics, they must accomplish these
religious objectives without the use of heroquests. Every type of
Newt will be faced with a series of personal challenges and decisions
that could make for some very good role playing.
-- From "Elder Secrets"
"The life of a dragonewt consists of always bettering himself,
mastering his emotions and reactions to events so that he may advance
to the next stage of being. Each stage of dragonewt development
requires that the dragonewt constantly strive to master specific
emotions and personality traits.
* Crested Dragonewts: The crested dragonewt must master his
Aggressive-Passive, Brave-Cowardly, Energetic-Lazy, Stubborn-Docile,
and Unreliable-Dependable personality traits.
* Beaked Dragonewts: the beaked dragonewt must have mastered his
Curious-Apathetic, Leader-Follower, Impulsive-Cautious, Nervous-Calm,
and Suspicious-Trusting traits.
* Tailed Priest: [must master] personality traits that allow him to
deal with the outside world: Honorable-Dishonorable, Greedy-Generous,
Impatient-Patient, and Extrovert-Introvert.
* Full Priest: The traits that he must master include: Clever-Dull,
Innovative-Conservative, Optimist-Pessimist, and Constructive-
Destructive."


SPECIAL NEWT RULES
1) Dragon Magic
-- "Anaxial's Roster" simplifies the treatment of Newt magic. There
is a single Dragon Magic Affinity governing all of the magic that a
particular Newt might have.
-- To create more refined magics you might want to break up Dragon
Magic into 6 discrete "Dragon Affinities" (Silence, Secrets, Dragon
Being, Experience, Spirit, Thought)
-- You could treat Crested magic (default 15) as Common, Beaked as
Initiate (default 20), Tailed as Devotee (default 5W), and Full
Priest as Disciple.
-- Those non-Draconic races who imitate the Dragons usually stick to
the Dragon Being affinity. They are more interested in claws, wings,
and fire than they are in mystic insight.

2) Spiritual Pollution
-- Every use of Dragon Magic retards the Newt's spiritual protest.
But HQ isn't preoccupied with book keeping, so here is my solution.
** Every time a 'Newt raises a Dragon Magic affinity by 1, it has to
increase one of its Dragon Flaws by 1 **
-- This provides a game-mechanical reflection of the costs/benfit
payoffs of Draconic Magic use

3) Dragon Virtues and Flaws
-- Take Greg's list of opposed traits. Treat them as Personality
traits.
So a begning Dragonewt would be rated
VIRTUE FLAWS
Aggressive13 Passive 17
Brave 13 Cowardly 17
Energetic 13 Lazy 17
Stubborn 13 Docile 17
Dependable 13 Unreliable 17
"Young Sssssspotted Beak, you will never asssscend to dragonhood if
you do not clean the ritual incense bowls before every sssssunset – a
good `newt issss a dependable `newt. I suppose now I must admonish
you using the Martial Art of the Tailed Rebuke."
"Forgive me sssssssifu!"
unless the player spent some words/character points in specifying
that their character was especially Brave, or Energetic.
** Every time a conflict arose about aggressive vs. passive
behaviour, you could have a Simple Contest between the Virtue and the
Flaw. The outcome of the contest would be a bonus or penalty. So a
marginal victory of Passive over Aggressive would mean that any
action that involved self assertion would get -1 **
-- I would prefer to run a brief "Meditation Session" at the begining
of an episode. Each of the pairs would be tested to determine the
characters' "Spiritual State" for the next 6 days, 6 hours, and 6
minutes. That way we could get the dice rolling out of the way at
the start and not be hemming-in the player's actions with personality
checks every 2 minutes

4) Character Progress/Reincarnation
-- Newts must strive to overcome the flaws inherent in their current
state of being. We don't want to go to the zero-sum Personality
mechanics of Pendragon and Pendragon Pass, so we can simply use the
positive acquisition of more traits to counteract the flaw.
** Before being able to progress to the next stage of being,
every 'Newt must overcome all of its Dragon Flaws by raising it's
corresponding Dragon Virtue to 8 points higher than the Flaw.
That means 6 personality-related ratings of 5w2, providing that the
character hasn't been going berserk with Dragon Magic.
-- The good news is, reincarnation in a higher form removes the Flaw
while leaving the Virtue intact. In other words, advanced Newt
characters would be richly-developed personalities and not 2-
dimensional Lizard Men.
-- A newt who has become very skilled will come back as a mere
crested. But imagine a newt who has been around 10 times. An uber-
skilled little crested would be a nice surprise for PCs
-- Excessive magic use could result in regression, perhaps even
dropping out of the Dragonewt Cycle and getting reborn as a
Magisaur. So lets say that any `newt pushing any Dragon Magic
affinity (or the single Dragon Magic affinity in the official rules)
10 points above the default level will come back as a Magisaur in his
next incarnation.

DRACONIC HERO QUESTS
Perhaps a spiritually advanced `newt must run some kind of HeroQuest
before reincarnation. All of the flaws and virtues would have to be
brought into play. "Deadlands" forced Harrowed PC's to play through
their death and resurrection and it was a lot of fun. Why not bring
that over to the lozenge?

-- Every use of Dragon Magic retards the Newt's spiritual protest.
But HQ isn't preoccupied with book keeping, so here is my solution.
** Every time a 'Newt raises a Dragon Magic affinity by 1, it has to
increase one of its Dragon Flaws by 1 **

Soru -- amazing solution to the problem. And, like most HQ solutions, it involves cleaving to the core mechanics instead of cluttering things up with book keeping.

>>a scout comes across some scary broos (nasty creatures 17). They decide to run away. Narrator decides this is a 6 AP bid, as its only a life or death matter, nothing really important. They must roll their bravery against the broos 17, with the result being applied to the ongoing 'become crested' contest. If they win, they have mastered their fear, and so can run away without penalty, if they lose, the natural instinct for self-preservation wins out at the cost of spritual development. <<

So, characters make a decisions that requries them to negotiate their current situation with the immediate challenge in mind. They figure fleeing is best, but that flight can be spiritually pure or an act of cowardice.

In the course of the 'newt's life, there will be a number of these small exchanges. The eventual result will be ascension, reincarnation, or degradation.

This could work as a kind of "Destiny Mechanic" or a Geas Mechanic.
"Your quest, young knight, is to drive the curse from the land and establish justice and tranquility in your fiefdom."


OMIGAWD! Imagine running a whole character's life in 1 3-hour session using an extended contest mechanic for the long term and simple contests for the episodes.

You would be adapting the HQ mechanic for running battles to any long-term conflict. And a simple mechanic for handling Narrativist goals.

The mind boggles!

Great brainwork Soru!

The end result, of course, is setting up a situation where the newt is close to great power, but a situation comes up that touches them closely. Do they turn their back on the world, or risk polluting their draconic soul in order to save it?