This problem first came up when I was seneschal for a dwarf with a hammer. The dwarf was using the puncture side of his hammer and attacked a guy at the chest with one success. The cauculated damage was 5(thanks to the hammers damage) and it said heart punctured instant death. The dwarf had plenty of damage but he only got one success so it was just a swing and hope it hits attack, but somehow the dwarf still was able to hit the guy right in the heart. Can you hit anywhere else than the vital organ but still have the same 'splat' effect?
To solve this I came up with a new damage system. (I made it quickly in my head at midnight so it might have a few errors.) What if we separeted the damage and the successes. The damage would only be absorbed by the targets toughness and armor while the successes would be absorbed by the defenders defense successes. Then you would make a graph for the damage. With the dwarf attacked again with one success at the chest it would read. Level 1 successes Level 5 damage, attack hits to the side of the target but still blows it up pretty nicely (it would have about the same amount of bl, shock, and pain as a normal level 5 but would not hit a vital organ). THe target would eventually die from bl or something in the long run but it would be more realistic.
Comments? Praises? Rebuctions? senseless rage? anything you have comment on.

I think you're trying to fix something that's not really broken. Damage takes into account all of those factors you mention (attack successes, strength, the weapon, defense successes, toughness, armor). For a level 1 success to turn into a level 5 wound, the target has to a) have not defended, b) have little or no armor and c) have a pathetic toughness compared to the attackers strength. And if all those are the case, then frankly, it's a legitimate smunting.

But if it really bothers you, then rather than going to all the trouble of designing new damage rules, why not just make both parties roll their attributes? Instead of straight Strength vs. Toughness, make the attacker roll Strength and the defender roll Toughness (both ATN6) so that you smooth out the results and give the defender more of a chance.

Brian.

Actually I advocate the complete Soak system, roll all damage against TO+AR. Lots more rolling, but I'm OK with that.

Mike

Rico wrote: To solve this I came up with a new damage system. (I made it quickly in my head at midnight so it might have a few errors.) What if we separeted the damage and the successes. The damage would only be absorbed by the targets toughness and armor while the successes would be absorbed by the defenders defense successes.

If your problem is with the mention of the blow striking the heart with only one success, just narrate the difference. If you want the blow to just remove a good chunk of teh chest cavity instead, then say that instead of whats in the book. In my opinion (which we all know is the same as unquestionable truth in its purest distilled form) I make sure that the narration of events takes priority over rules, so in this case, I would tell the player what I think would work best given the situation rather than read directly whats in the text of the table.

Yea, that's probably what i'll do. I'm not intrested at all in making a new damage system, I was actually hoping someone had thought of this and made some modifyers for it already.

Modifiers? If by that, you mean ways to vary the results of the damage of a particular level delivered, I think that most people would object. I would, at least. That is, I agree that the level ought to be varied, but the effects of the level - that's tinkering with the damage tables, and that sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

What I think Ashren is saying, and I agree with this totally, is just to describe some other sort of hit that would have the same mechanical effects. Don't want to do a hit to the heart again? Then this time it's a torn aorta. Or a badly punctured and completely collapsed lung that's bleeding into the other. Or whatever other creative description you can come up with that satisfies the result of dead, dead, dead in this case.

The actual in-game nature of the wound doesn't matter, really. It's only the mechanical effect that matters in terms of keeping the system intact.

Mike