Hi,

TRoS doesn't seem to have much detail on the concept of passive defensive magics. In fact the sorcery system doesn't seem to have much detail on defensive magics.

The battle between sorcerors is described in terms of how quickly a spell can be cast and tracking casting times.

For me the whole issue of mages being over-the-top in their capabilities is largely due to the lack of defensive magic.

The first mod I'd make to TRoS magic is to add rules for a Circle of Protection (CoP) spell. The concept is taken from the RPG Chivalry & Sorcery. It has the following properties:

1) It must be inscribed. This means physically drawing the CoP on a surface, which takes time. In other words a CoP can't be raised instantly. Rather, it must be prepared. A CoP can be partially drawn and completed at a later time as long as nothing has disturbed the original inscription.

2) The mage must be within the CoP once it is fully inscribed. Anyone entering or leaving the CoP once inscribed nullifies the CoP.

3) For a spell to cross the magical barier and target someone within the CoP the magickal effect must first challenge the CoP. If the CoP's defenses are overcome the CoP may be broken and the spell continues on to its target and is resolved normally. If the CoP holds then the incoming spell is either absorbed, deflected, or rebounds onto the caster.

4) For a spiritual creature (such as undead) to cross the CoP it too must challenge the CoP. If successful the CoP is broken. If the challenge fails the undead may not cross the CoP.

5) Non-magickal/non-spiritual objects are completely unaffected by a CoP.

Like any spell the CoP can be enchanted into an object according to the standard rules for creating magical objects. Permanently inscribed CoPs grow in strength over time (over long periods of time, measured in decades and centuries). In particular, any significant fortification would have a CoP built into it as a matter of course. In a world such as Weyrth which is predicated on what you might describe as a high fantasy view of magic, it seems reasonable that anyone who can afford to have their home protected in this manner would have their home protected in this manner.

From a mechanics perspective I'd suggest something along the lines of:

1) The CoP has a level equal to the lower of the inscribing mage's Art, Form, or (13 - Symbol Drawing).

2) When a spell challenges the CoP, there is a contested roll. The owner of the CoP rolls a number of dice equal to the level of the CoP versus a TN equal to the Form of the attacking mage. The attacking mage rolls a number of dice equal to their Form attribute against a TN equal to the level of the CoP. If the CoP wins or it is a draw then the CoP holds and the spell doesn't penetrate.

3) The owner of the CoP can draw dice from the Sorcery Pool of anyone within the CoP to add to the number of dice used to resist a particular challenge of the CoP. As such, mundanes within the CoP can be used to power the CoP. This drawing of dice from the Sorcery Pool of others does not have to be voluntary.

The mechanics will need tweaking but, conceptually, I'd like to see something along these lines in TRoS.

Cheers,

You state that there seems not to be alot of defensive magic in TROS. Well, since the book only has a few example spells... make some defensive spells. The whole creating a 30 foot deep pit below someone's feet would be a neat defensive trick. The spells themselves will have to be made by someone, but the means of using them passively for defensive purposes in a non-issue. USE TALISMANS. Imprint a spell on some item so that when you activate it, it is completely instant.. no chanting, waiving of arms, shuffling your feet, drawing shit on a floor, etc.. And if you put a spell into something, it has a sorcery pool in and of itself... so when you use it, it does not drain the sorceror's current SP. Also, the talisman itself ages when it is used, not the sorceror.

I refer you to page 121 for this topic, on 'Dormant Spells'.

-Ingenious

I really like this idea of protective circles, pentagrams, etc. Brings an exquisit arcane flavor. I could see it being used in many ways. Let me know what else you might develop, and I'll do the same. I'm going to see if my group is interested in including something like this.

I like how it's not an instant thing, like D&D protection against blah blah blah....

And don't forget the possibility of implanting a spell in your own body, to be automatically released if you get attacked, etc. There are a lot of possibilities, some of them very nasty, if you think about it for a while.

Brian.

I believe ritual drawing can be used to enhance ritual magic.. I'd even allow them to enhance spells of three or one, if the person casting wished to take the time to set up ritual space first.

I don't particularly like the idea of just a drawing, even a very precisely done and highly limited drawing, being able to protect against anything. Some believe that symbols have power in and of themselves.. but the way TRoS sorcery works, it requires some input of energy, usually the caster's life-force. I would allow something like this ONLY if it were cast as a spell, and created as such.

Ingenious is right on when he says that there is only a lack of defensive spells because people didn't create them for the book.. that doesn't mean they can't be created.

Here is how I would create a Circle of Protection: Magic

Circle of Protection: Magic
Ritual Sorcery
CTN = 9 (possibility of dropping it by up to 3 points with successful meditation roll)
T) 0 R) 1 V) 2 D) 3 L) 3 (3+1+1-2)
Vagaries: Banishment 3, Summoning 3, Imprisonment 3
Effects: Magic 3, Magic 3, Magic 3
Constant (1 week/success)

The spell uses Banishment (Master level) to banish any spell which attempts to enter it's environs, as determined by the original drawing (up to 10 yards in diameter) though the drawing does not need to be intact once the spell is completely cast. The summoning and imprisonment vagaries use the dispersed magic of the spells to recharge the spell's energy, and keep it going. Any excess energy absorbed will add duration to the spell.

How it works: The spell acts like 9 points of Art for the purposes of resisting the incoming spell, as per the rules on page 119. If the Circle has a margin of successover the incoming spell, add 1 week of duration per 2 successes to the Circle of Protection. If the spell has a MoS over the Circle, the circle's rating is reduced permanently.If the spell's total casting successes are not nullified, it continues on, in it's weakened state. If the circle's rating reaches zero, or it ever runs out of duration, the spell disappears and will need to be cast again.

Obviously, slightly better or more limited versions of this spell are possible.

One way to make the drawn circle important, rather than making it a requirement of the spell, would be to make a protection spell and then imbed it in the circle as a dormant spell. That way, if there is an emergency you just step into the circle and activate - potentially quicker and much safer than casting the spell.

I'm not actually sure that a drawing counts as an object to imbed it in.. However, if you cast it on an object set into the ground or the object that the circle was drawn on, I could see that happening.

But as for circle-drawing, it's not precisely a requirement. All symbol drawing does mechanically is lower the TN for aging resistace rolls.. Not really sure why it does that.. Honestly, can't for the life of my figure that one out. A well drawn symbol should either give the spell more power, or make it easier to cast, rather than making it easier to resist the adverse effects..

On the other hand, if the symbol drawing were intended to be a protective circle around the sorcerer to protect him from the spell, that'd be something else entirely.. But it doesn't specify that, and it doesn't make sense that that would be the entirety of symbol functionality.

Hi,

Ingenious wrote: You state that there seems not to be alot of defensive magic in TROS. Well, since the book only has a few example spells... make some defensive spells.

Ingenious wrote: The whole creating a 30 foot deep pit below someone's feet would be a neat defensive trick.

Ingenious wrote: USE TALISMANS. Imprint a spell on some item so that when you activate it, it is completely instant...

Hi,

Brian Leybourne wrote: And don't forget the possibility of implanting a spell in your own body, to be automatically released if you get attacked, etc. There are a lot of possibilities, some of them very nasty, if you think about it for a while.

Hi,

Wolfen wrote: I believe ritual drawing can be used to enhance ritual magic.. I'd even allow them to enhance spells of three or one, if the person casting wished to take the time to set up ritual space first.

I don't particularly like the idea of just a drawing, even a very precisely done and highly limited drawing, being able to protect against anything.

In reference to Wolfen's reply.

Though you, Ian Plumb, have picked up on other ppl's approaches to defensive magic, and found them lacking, you seem to have somehow missed out on Wolfen's.

It seems to sum up the concept of a COP perfectly.
It uses the system as it stands without further tampering. It makes sense.
It captures the essence of bound defensive magics.
And it requires the right level of ingenious thinking that should typify the expert magus.

Not to have a go at you, Ian. But Wolfen seems to have provided a nice solution. Or at least the template towards one.

Take care

Hahahahaha.. 'And it requires the right level of ingenious thinking'
At least I came up with the reference to it. I agree of course with Wolfen's thinking.
Ian: the CoP spell that Wolfen put forth is somewhat on the money.. however with the use of Imprisonment-magic 3.. 3 SP dice would be permanently lost... and to use imprisonment would require the use of a talisman/focus anyways...

The three options I see available to a sorceror in a magic duel are these:
A sorceror may cast a counter-spell.(inverting the one directed at him)
Or he could use a CoP spell of some sort.
Or he could use a talisman to just eat the magic.

Now then, on to the topic of mage vs mage. It states that a sorceror could cast multiple spells with low CTN's in contrast to ONE with a large CTN. While this may be all fine and dandy and such... I still raise the issue of talismans... these things are wicked. Imagine being in a sorcery duel and tooling around with your opponent until you almost get hit with a spell, or you just get bored from winning all the time. And then someone activates multiple talismans, sending a sizable number of spells at the other. Try countering that with inverting why don't ya? Or with a circle of protection.
And let's say that someone is trying to counter-spell you... why not just trip a talisman that eats his inverted spell? So you essentially just threw a spell at him, he attempted to counter, and then you 'dis-spelled' his counter and your original spell goes through.. minus any additional defenses he might have had... such as a CoP of his own.. etc etc etc.
The CoP would work well for not having to try to invert a spell in order for it to dissipate... but it hardly is a complete solution. What if someone suddenly directed a spell at the CoP itself in a wizardly duel? That is, if you casted a CoP on something and are having it serve as a talisman to either imprison or banish the magic... one could just walk up near it and cast a disintegration spell or something... or it could be a line of sight disintegration spell... Who knows.
My views are skewed however.. as my version of a CoP is itself a talisman... which just happens to be portable.

-Ingenious

Only permanent if the spell were to be made permanent. You must read the fine print, or the laws of magic will bite you in the ace.

As for striking at the source of the spell itself.. Fine and good, but if the source is within the area of the spell, you'd have to get through it first. About the only way I could see to get through a Circle of Protection of the nature I described is by inverting it.. And if the sorcerer who cast it is paranoid enough, he could use any attempt to do such to set off other dormant spells to attack the caster.

Fun stuff, really.

The way I interpreted it, was that if a spell that eats another spell wants to take that magic out of the way permanently.. you would have to spend SP dice permanently.. otherwise the magic might come back right?
However, your point on countering the CoP is taken. And as you said, attempting to invert a CoP would draw the ire of the sorceror being protected.. and would leave the one inverting open for an unleashing of the floodgates...

-Ingenious

Wolfen wrote: I'm not actually sure that a drawing counts as an object to imbed it in.. However, if you cast it on an object set into the ground or the object that the circle was drawn on, I could see that happening.

Kenjib,

Of course it doesn't hurt.. But it's just a your way-my way difference, is all.

The CoP spell as written is not a permanent spell, so therefore nothing it does is permanent, exactly. But as it feeds on the magic that fueled the spells it counters, it can last much longer than it's original duration.. if it's attacked regularly. But either way, the duration is not permanent.

A CoP of this nature, btw, is a two edged sword. It doesn't care whether the spells are going in, or coming out, nor does it care if the spell is beneficial or harmful. Perhaps if you added a spirit into the mixture who could make these determinations, it would be a more discerning spell.. But that would take more, now wouldn't it?

Ian,

DO a search through the forum (start with the directory, perhaps). There's a whole thread somewhere where we discussed how to embed spells into ones own body, or your clothing etc and how they would be released. We also discussed magic staffs and embedding spells into them etc.

Brian.