Topic: Arrows and armor
Started by: Starshadow
Started on: 1/9/2004
Board: The Riddle of Steel
On 1/9/2004 at 4:53am, Starshadow wrote:
Arrows and armor
Greetings.
Have a question about archery and armors here.
I'm wondering if AV is the same for melee and ranged attacks?
Wouldn't an arrow pierce chain easier than a sword would?
Have searched the forum and the rulebook without finding out anything; hope you can help me.
On 1/9/2004 at 6:19am, Ingenious wrote:
RE: Arrows and armor
Chain was made to keep puncturing wounds to a minimum...
That's why the chain's diameter was so small, and multi-layered... more-over to prevent such things as daggers, rapiers, sharp pointy things with a diameter larger than the chain was, or a length shorter than the thickness of it.. etc.
Arrows and such can just as easily go through plate as any other armor... so you'd be dead either way.(due to momentum/force/velocity.)
((An arrow travels much faster than a thrusted sword, and a bullet travels at well over the speed of sound.. even round cannon balls and mortars from the Civil War reached speeds well in excess of Mach 2.))(((largest gun of note was a 20inch cannonball that was round and weighed 1080lbs fired from a gun that weighed 106000+ pounds at a rate of over 1700+ feet per SECOND at a maximum range of 5 MILES this during the Civil War mind you.)))
But to answer your primary question, yes AV is the same for melee as it is in ranged.
So melee=deadly enough
Ranged=even more so
Cannons, guns, etc=why bother calculating damage.. a hit means almost certain doom.
-Ingenious
Mach 1.0 in standard day conditions is around 750 fps.
Standard day condition meaning 50 degrees of temperature at sea level etc etc. Speed of sound varies with altitude; meaning that the higher you are, the lower the speed of sound is.
On 1/9/2004 at 6:41am, Starshadow wrote:
RE: Arrows and armor
Okay.
Thakee.
On 1/9/2004 at 3:42pm, Salamander wrote:
Umm....
Ingenious wrote: Chain was made to keep puncturing wounds to a minimum...
That's why the chain's diameter was so small, and multi-layered... more-over to prevent such things as daggers, rapiers, sharp pointy things with a diameter larger than the chain was, or a length shorter than the thickness of it.. etc.
Correctomundo.
Arrows and such can just as easily go through plate as any other armor... so you'd be dead either way.(due to momentum/force/velocity.)
((An arrow travels much faster than a thrusted sword, and a bullet travels at well over the speed of sound.. even round cannon balls and mortars from the Civil War reached speeds well in excess of Mach 2.))(((largest gun of note was a 20inch cannonball that was round and weighed 1080lbs fired from a gun that weighed 106000+ pounds at a rate of over 1700+ feet per SECOND at a maximum range of 5 MILES this during the Civil War mind you.)))
Here I run into problems. Maille has been proven mostly effective against arrows, witht he majority of damage coming from the impact, but not so much penetration. Harness (plate) was proofed (quality checked) against arbelests first, then muskets later. It would have to be able to stop the projectile, whatever it was, for the sale to be completed. In fact I have seen suits of harness that were proofed against musket. All I saw was a dint the size of my index finger's first knuckle.
But to answer your primary question, yes AV is the same for melee as it is in ranged.
So melee=deadly enough
Ranged=even more so
Cannons, guns, etc=why bother calculating damage.. a hit means almost certain doom.
-Ingenious
What he said.
On 1/9/2004 at 4:31pm, toli wrote:
RE: Arrows and armor
In game terms the AV is the same but the damage from a longbow, for example, is higher. If I remember correctly longbow damage is 5+3p or 8. For an arming sword the damage is PC St+1, so it would generally be lower.
I think the thing to remember is that in TROS AV remains unchanged and weapon effects are handled through the weapon damage. EG, blunt weapons doing more damage vs plate.
NT
On 1/9/2004 at 5:13pm, Salamander wrote:
RE: Arrows and armor
toli wrote: In game terms the AV is the same but the damage from a longbow, for example, is higher. If I remember correctly longbow damage is 5+3p or 8. For an arming sword the damage is PC St+1, so it would generally be lower.
I think the thing to remember is that in TROS AV remains unchanged and weapon effects are handled through the weapon damage. EG, blunt weapons doing more damage vs plate.
NT
But, if I am not mistaken, one has to have a ST of 5 to operate said longbow, no? And the numbers balance out in the TNs.
On 1/9/2004 at 5:22pm, toli wrote:
RE: Arrows and armor
Salamander wrote:toli wrote: In game terms the AV is the same but the damage from a longbow, for example, is higher. If I remember correctly longbow damage is 5+3p or 8. For an arming sword the damage is PC St+1, so it would generally be lower.
I think the thing to remember is that in TROS AV remains unchanged and weapon effects are handled through the weapon damage. EG, blunt weapons doing more damage vs plate.
NT
But, if I am not mistaken, one has to have a ST of 5 to operate said longbow, no? And the numbers balance out in the TNs.
You're correct, but the LB would still do more damage than a PC with 5 St and an arming sword. I don't remember the TNs for the bow. However, in reality, one might be more likely to be taken unawares by an arrow (say in a battle or skirmish) and thus provide no active defense to lower the damage.
On 1/9/2004 at 6:24pm, Caz wrote:
RE: Arrows and armor
I agree so far. Here's how I work some stuff.
Proofed armour is so proofed due to a higher av + weight. (= more fatigue)
As is, I take the arrows damage for broadheads, and they increase BL if pulled out whence they came.
For bodkins (armour piercing arrow heads) I give +2 vs av, - some BL. VS mail, bodkins didn't break the armour so much as they were skinny and pointy to wound through it.
A longbows dr is high enough I don't really use mods for it.
For firearms I use + vs AR added on the damage to simulate their velocity without causing unrealistically high damage.
On 1/9/2004 at 6:35pm, toli wrote:
RE: Arrows and armor
sounds fine to me...NT
On 2/1/2004 at 5:54pm, Hereward The Wake wrote:
Arrow effects
Cant speak on game mechaincs, but from extensive practicle research. Plate will stop and arrow from a bow. A bodkin might get some penetration but not enough to really affect the wearer, broadheads will just glance off. Bodkins will do well against most mail if shot from a strong bow. Again braodheads will generally bounce off. Again it comes down to what one iswearing underneath with mail. Of course this doesn't count when an arrow hits an unportected leg etc.