{crossposted with rpg.net}
I've been gone for a while (not that you noticed :-P ), and here's what iv'e been up to.
I've been running a Feng Shui game for the past couple of months using the scenario provided in the rulebook as a jumping off point.

Rather than getting into a long "OOOh! MY game is teh roxxor and i'm going to tell/bore you with the details" i'm just going to jabber about what i thought of the game. My group consists of my old TRoS group and a guy who is pretty much a noob when it comes to RPGs. We had a Ninja, a Killer and the new guy played an Everyman Hero (because i compared it to Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China).

What i like:
1. Character creation: this went very quickly. After some hemming and hawing from the ninja over guns (he thought Glocks were a stupid choice compared to some other, much better gun...i forget the details) we got going pretty quick. Each is highly competent right out of the starting gate and nicely differentiated from the others. I like this.

2. System (including combat): Nice and fast. Handles quite a bit without any trouble at all. I like the rules light approach because it completely eliminates most of the tendency and desire to flip pages looking for rules to handle a situation.

What bugs me:

1. For some reason, Guns skill is used for hand to hand combat. I don't know the reasoning behind it. The Killer's player thought it was exceedingly odd but we went with it anyway.

2. Being cool with guns is a lot harder than being cool with swords or martial arts. While the ninja was flipping out and killing everyone and the everyman hero was throwing everything from chopsticks to a can of hairspray into a fire so it fired off like a rocket and exploded against the head of a big tough bad guy, the killer was pretty much relegated to "I use Both Guns Blazing and shoot him in the face". He's an imaginative guy, but adding "I spin around and shoot him in the face" is nowhere near as cool as the stuff the other guys were doing.

3. There is no real tangible reward for stunts. Sure, it's cooler when the ninja says "I leap over the head of one animated suit of armor while slashing it in the head, pheonix back flip off the wall and slash downward on a second suit and as i land, i thrust behind me and impale a third", but that's really no different, benefit wise, (other than everyone saying "Wow! Cool!") than saying "I attack three guys this round". Other stunts are penalized or have high values, which tends to keep players from trying cool stuff.

I had to start rewarding experience to my players to get them to describe cool things, which kind of screws over the killer, since, like i said, it's kind of hard to come up with cool stunts.

4. This is a personal quibble, but the setting kind of bugs me. Things get really wonky really quick, and we've only travelled to ancient China.

5. There are no car chase rules in the MRB, and for a game that is about action movies, this seemed like an oversight...so i had to make some up by watching Ronin and thinking about how the rules would apply.

Overall, the game is fun, but it does have some drawbacks, mostly related to performing stunts.

I'm going to wrap up this game pretty quick i think, run a oneshot of Dread, and then move into Exalted.

arxhon wrote: 2. Being cool with guns is a lot harder than being cool with swords or martial arts. While the ninja was flipping out and killing everyone and the everyman hero was throwing everything from chopsticks to a can of hairspray into a fire so it fired off like a rocket and exploded against the head of a big tough bad guy, the killer was pretty much relegated to "I use Both Guns Blazing and shoot him in the face". He's an imaginative guy, but adding "I spin around and shoot him in the face" is nowhere near as cool as the stuff the other guys were doing.

3. There is no real tangible reward for stunts. Sure, it's cooler when the ninja says "I leap over the head of one animated suit of armor while slashing it in the head, pheonix back flip off the wall and slash downward on a second suit and as i land, i thrust behind me and impale a third", but that's really no different, benefit wise, (other than everyone saying "Wow! Cool!") than saying "I attack three guys this round". Other stunts are penalized or have high values, which tends to keep players from trying cool stuff.

I had to start rewarding experience to my players to get them to describe cool things, which kind of screws over the killer, since, like i said, it's kind of hard to come up with cool stunts.
...
Overall, the game is fun, but it does have some drawbacks, mostly related to performing stunts.

arxhon wrote: 1. For some reason, Guns skill is used for hand to hand combat. I don't know the reasoning behind it. The Killer's player thought it was exceedingly odd but we went with it anyway.

2. Being cool with guns is a lot harder than being cool with swords or martial arts.

3. There is no real tangible reward for stunts. Sure, it's cooler when the ninja says "I leap over the head of one animated suit of armor while slashing it in the head, pheonix back flip off the wall and slash downward on a second suit and as i land, i thrust behind me and impale a third", but that's really no different, benefit wise, (other than everyone saying "Wow! Cool!") than saying "I attack three guys this round". Other stunts are penalized or have high values, which tends to keep players from trying cool stuff.

5. There are no car chase rules in the MRB, and for a game that is about action movies, this seemed like an oversight...so i had to make some up by watching Ronin and thinking about how the rules would apply.

Overall, the game is fun, but it does have some drawbacks, mostly related to performing stunts.

Mike Holmes wrote: Guns isn't just the ability to shoot, it's fighting with guns as a weapon.

Mike Holmes wrote:
[some snippage] Why can't the guy with the guns flip over folks while shooting them?... Have you seen the movie Killer? ... Think the scene in the Matrix where he's shooting while doing a cartwheel.

Mike Holmes wrote: You missed the "Dull" rule. That is, the GM is authorized to penalize the player if he doesn't make a good narration. If you do this right, it seems like a reward.

Mike Holmes wrote: Just roll the dice and describe the combat outcome in terms of the moving scenery. I can't imagine why you'd need any special rules for this.

Mike Holmes wrote:
Feng Shui tries to go to lengths to counter some of the problems that you see occuring, so I'm wondering if there wasn't some larger disconnect. Are your players fans of Wuxia movies?

Andrew Martin wrote: Can I suggest running Wushu next?

Wushu link: www.bayn.org

Cool, thanks, Shreyas Sampat. :-)

I forgot to add to my original post: I really like the way the skill system is set up: including ability, knowledge and contacts into one broad category is quite brilliant, in my opinion.

arxhon wrote: Well, for example, we had a tough time trying to envision a dude parrying a baseball bat with a pistol, things like that.

Mike Holmes wrote: Actually, sadly, no i haven't seen Killer. I remember the Matrix scene you're talking about. I'll keep that in mind. I see no reason why buddy can't flip over folks. IIRC, he did a little of this in the first session but then stopped. I'm not sure why, but i think it's because he didn't see any point to it.

Mike Holmes wrote: I'm unable to find any reference to a "Dull" rule in the MRB. Is this a suggestion from another book, or an idea of your own? At any rate, this is a great idea, and i'm borrowing it.

Mike Holmes wrote: This is effectively what i did, actually. I had the guys do Drive checks when things got hairy on the road, or when they wanted to do something like drive up a freeway off ramp, run a red light and drive down the opposite on-ramp at 140 mph.

Mike Holmes wrote: I've only seen a couple of actual Hong Kong wuxia movies; most of my exposure is subtitled Jackie Chan movies (before he got big in North America), Chow Yun Fat, Bruce Lee and Jet Li's North American flicks. We all like martial arts flicks, and one of them thinks Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is the "bomb".

I don't know what you mean by "disconnect", could you elaborate?

I'm not knocking Feng Shui. I had a lot of fun with it, i think the ruleset is actually pretty good, and i know the guys have had some fun as well. Unfortunately, my players are a little more, ummm..."reward oriented" (there's probably a Forge term for it) than probably the people the game is directed at.

A good example of what my players (and i, as well, honestly) like would be the Spiritual Attributes from The Riddle of Steel. They do something relevant to their character and get immediate gratification in terms of the character.

Hello Mike,

There's a definite aesthetic to the game that you didn't seem to get hooked into. Seen Big Trouble in Little China?

Killer should be required viewing. :-)

No, this is in the rules. I have first edition, so maybe somehow it didn't make it into the second if that's what you have.

arxhon,

I believe what Mike is talking about is covered in Adjucating Stunts in Chapter 10. Basically, if the player gets repetative with their stunting, you can actually increase the AV modifier to relfect that the opposition is getting wise to them doing the same stunts over and over again.

Urbwar could be right, maybe I'm remembering the OTE version or something. But I'm going to look it up to be sure.

I tried comparing gun fu to some movie i saw a few years back that i can't remember the name of, but it had some dude and some other dude in a close range gun fight at the end, spinning and dodging in a hallway in a skyscraper within arms reach of each other, and then both ran out of ammo just as they each pulled the trigger while pointing their guns at the other guy's face.

Mike Holmes wrote: Heh, I can't remember if that's in "The Killer", but it could be. There's more than one "mexican standoff". Sounds just right, in any case, for inspirational material.

Mike

arxhon wrote: Well, for example, we had a tough time trying to envision a dude parrying a baseball bat with a pistol, things like that.

urbwar wrote:

Mike Holmes wrote: Heh, I can't remember if that's in "The Killer", but it could be. There's more than one "mexican standoff". Sounds just right, in any case, for inspirational material.

Mike

That actually sounds like the mexican standoff Chow Yun Fat and Tony Leung have in "Hardboiled", doesn't it?

fwiw, that was "Face OfF", with Nicholas Cage and John Travolta, directed by John Woo IIRC

arxhon wrote:

We had another session last night, and things were much better. I started saying things like 'Make it cool' when people did stuff,and that reminded the guys, that 'i shoot at him' is pretty dull, i think.

At any rate, the game was much better this time around.

montag wrote: fwiw, that was "Face OfF", with Nicholas Cage and John Travolta, directed by John Woo IIRC

Slightly OT, but if you or your friend want some inspiration for gun-fu, Equilibrium should definitely be on your viewing list; it has a quite unique take on martial arts and modern firearms.

http://www.kungfucinema.com/reviews/equilibrium.htm

Best,
Grex

montag wrote: fwiw, that was "Face OfF", with Nicholas Cage and John Travolta, directed by John Woo IIRC

urbwar wrote: That's good to hear. Did you feel that by reminding them every so often helped motivate them to try and make better descriptions?

Mike Holmes wrote:
Did you get them hooked on gaining Feng Shui? Did they capture any sites? Have they tasted the advantages? :-)

Hello arxhon,

You wrote,

The guy who does the best descriptions took a number of years off gaming and is the biggest "munchkin" of the group.

The guy who's been playing pretty much solid for...geez...it must be 15 years now is actually the most stumped at coming up with descriptions. Ingrained habits, perhaps?

The new guy is really creative and wacky. He is always coming up with strange things to do with beer bottles, chop sticks and cans of hairspray.

I don't think there's a real relationship in that observation, but i do find it interesting.

Hello Ron,

Thanks for replying.
You wrote,

Ron Edwards wrote:

Oh, I think there's a real relationship there. I think it's very important. There's almost certainly no "perhaps" about it - ingrained habits, much like ingrown toenails.

Arxhon,

The Art of War, starring Wesley Snipes.

Deacon Blues:

YES!!!!

That's the one! Thanks a lot!