Topic: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
Started by: abzu
Started on: 1/21/2004
Board: Indie Game Design
On 1/21/2004 at 9:32pm, abzu wrote:
[Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
http://www.burningwheel.org/pdf/bw_atg_uass_r1_scrn.pdf
Hi all,
I would like to use this thread to discuss the (game) design of the above linked pdf.
The questions I would like to discuss are:
Does it "feel" right?
(what does it "feel" like, then? what's your first thought/initial impression upon first glance?) (we can talk about the nature of "feel", too)
Would you play in this setting using these mechanics?
If not, why? If so, why?
Does the setting address the premise?
(The overarching premise being "Can the characters overcome their self-destructive nature in order to change themselves or even change their world?" There are other, finer grains to that that I would love to discuss as well.)
Do the mechanics reinforce/address the premise?
Specifically those of Need, Despair, Disease and Answered.
Lastly, from a publisher-to-consumer standpoint, does it feel legitimate?
Does it feel like a "product?"
Any other thoughts you'd like to share on the matter are appreciated as well. Those are the questions I had to start.
It's a long piece, 10,000+ words, so I don't expect immediate feedback. Also, this pdf is set to screen resolution so the artwork doesn't look so hot. View at 100% for best results.
thanks in advance for your time and effort.
-Luke
On 1/22/2004 at 6:41pm, inthisstyle wrote:
Re: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
abzu wrote: Does it "feel" right?
(what does it "feel" like, then? what's your first thought/initial impression upon first glance?) (we can talk about the nature of "feel", too)
It's definitely pretty. The colors are interesting. The feels seems right for the setting, and the narrow text area gives a cramped feeling that is appropriate for the setting.
abzu wrote: Would you play in this setting using these mechanics?
If not, why? If so, why?
No way. Too depressing. My group doesn't like these hopeless game worlds. Still, kinda cool.
abzu wrote: Does the setting address the premise?
(The overarching premise being "Can the characters overcome their self-destructive nature in order to change themselves or even change their world?" There are other, finer grains to that that I would love to discuss as well.)
I think so. The Need and Despair traits push you into that mode of play. I'm not sure about the "change the world" part. I'm not sure the characters really can change the world. I think I would definitely insert some hope of success if I ran it (see note above).
On the other hand, Despair is going to get you in the end, no matter what you do. Can you really change yourself in these rules so that won't happen? I'm not sure.
abzu wrote: Do the mechanics reinforce/address the premise?
Specifically those of Need, Despair, Disease and Answered.
See above answer.
abzu wrote: Lastly, from a publisher-to-consumer standpoint, does it feel legitimate?
Does it feel like a "product?"
Yeah, it's really slick. Short, but valuable from the standpoint of actually being able to play if you have the BW rules. It's cool.
abzu wrote: Any other thoughts you'd like to share on the matter are appreciated as well. Those are the questions I had to start.
I thought the notes at the end were really interesting. The setting being suggested by a band is something I toyed with once. The whole thing seems like a fusion of Road Warrior, The Matrix, and Final Fantasy.
One suggestion on formatting, though, I think the brief setting description really needs to go at the beginning. I pieced a lot of it together from the rules bit, but the rules will make more sense once you have at least a brief sketch of the world.
On 1/22/2004 at 7:00pm, abzu wrote:
RE: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
interesting.
Thanks for your comments, Brennan. I appreciate your taking the time to read the material.
As far as the detailed setting/scenario info being at back, that was a deliberate decision on my part. I wanted readers to start forming their own opinions -- leaving it more open to interpretation which seems to have worked in your case.
As far as "hope" goes. It's what you make of it.
Mechanically, YOU CAN OVERCOME DESPAIR. It is a difficult test at the end, and you only have one shot at it, but it can be done. Alternately, you can always choose not to use Despair in your attempt to overthrow the established order.
-Luke
On 1/22/2004 at 8:24pm, Durgil wrote:
RE: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
A very interesting read, Luke, and it looks very professional. I'm personally more into the 10th to 12th century Earth/Middle-earth settings, like Hârn, when it comes to my campaigns, but I think you and your friends have put together a very impressive alternative.
On 1/22/2004 at 8:42pm, abzu wrote:
RE: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
Durgil wrote: A very interesting read, Luke, and it looks very professional. I'm personally more into the 10th to 12th century Earth/Middle-earth settings, like Hârn, when it comes to my campaigns, but I think you and your friends have put together a very impressive alternative.
Tony,
What do you think of the emotional mechanics?
It also dawned on me, after posting the pdf, that this could easily be used for "standard" BW. One would simply replace the .45 skill with Small Sword, Wakazashi or Gladius (which ever fits), and replace Firearms with Crossbow and perhaps toss in a Sword or Axe skill here and there. Basically just using the BW skill set instead of the "modern ones" provided. The emotional content can (and should) remain the same, though.
-Luke
On 1/22/2004 at 9:39pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
I'm not one for angsty settings, but you've done a good job from my quick skim of it in terms of feeling. It obviously hits the premise hard and heavy. Really the question isn't so much if it does this, but what play will feel like. That is, I think you guys already have this at the point where only playtesting is going to tell you anything interesting. Now you just have to find some masochists willing to try it.
Have you guys played extensively?
I know you weren't looking for editing notes, but Jurgen's last name is Mayer, and I thought that misspelling might get missed if I didn't mention it.
Mike
On 1/22/2004 at 9:41pm, Lxndr wrote:
RE: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
Just a quick note: Luke, if you managed to run this in the IRC channel of indie-netgaming, I'd make sure to show.
On 1/23/2004 at 1:55am, abzu wrote:
RE: [Burning Wheel] Under a Serpent Sun
played extensively?
Nope. Hasn't been playtested one bit.
This a rough draft. I wanted to test the waters before going any further.
Haven't even made characters! (aside from scratched test notes.)
angst. right, i forgot about that. That word comes with such a terrible connotation. Really, Dro and I were shooting for desperate and ugly -- gritting your teeth, bleeding in the gut, trying to crawl toward the detonator and blow it all to hell before you pass out type play.
IRC
Not going to happen. But we are tossing around the idea of doing con demos. Maybe at GenCon?
-L