Hey folks,

Just wanted to plug my new RPGnet column, which is pretty heavily theory-based. There was this misunderstanding earlier where draft versions of my articles got published over the holidays (while I was completely offline and unaware), but we've got it all straightened out now.

The column is called "The Fine Art of Roleplaying" and addresses some of recent discussions, most noteably "Games" issue
& the thread that inspired it, When can we stop making "games?"
.

The first two columns are linked below:
#1 - What is Roleplaying?
#2 - This is the Remix

The first one is probably old news to most Forge denizens, but the new one, which addresses roleplaying and rap as two Post-Modern art forms, is stuff that we haven't really addressed before.

Feel free to come and take me to task in the comments section. I'd really like to get some discussion going over there, both to take up the time between articles (since they only post things 2 weeks apart) and to see if we can't recruit more of the world's brightest roleplaying minds to come hang out on the Forge.

Jonathan,

Yes, that is neat. Wish the discussion were happening here, frankly.

Incidentally, the article to which John referred is currently under review for inclusion here at the Forge, so maybe if your column doesn't start anything, we can try again when that appears.

A nice piece of work!

Chris Lehrich

clehrich wrote: Wish the discussion were happening here, frankly.

Jonathan,

Rap music is just one cultural area that has similarities to roleplaying. You mention the internet, but completely leave out the software industry and its almost parallel development. The open source phenomenon that started with computer programming has directly influenced much of what goes on here.

-Brodie

Total agreement, Brodie. In a more general article, I'd love to tackle the aesthetics of programming and software design too, but I figured rap was something that would stand out more. Enough roleplayers already do the information technology thing, either professionally or as a hobby (and this is posted on a website), so I figured the parallels to Open Source would be pretty evident, especially with the OGL and things.

A good thought, though. Perhaps there'll be room in a future article...

Jonathan Walton wrote: Just wanted to plug my new RPGnet column, which is pretty heavily theory-based. There was this misunderstanding earlier where draft versions of my articles got published over the holidays (while I was completely offline and unaware), but we've got it all straightened out now.

Hey Neel,

I just included a quote from "WiR" in my article and credited you for pointing it out to me. Thanks. It fits right in, next to excerpts from Catherine Clement's book, Opera, or the Undoing of Women.

I'm planning on finishing the article today, which means it should be up on RPGnet by this coming Friday.

Jonathan Walton wrote: Hey Neel,

I just included a quote from "WiR" in my article and credited you for pointing it out to me. Thanks. It fits right in, next to excerpts from Catherine Clement's book, Opera, or the Undoing of Women. I'm planning on finishing the article today, which means it should be up on RPGnet by this coming Friday.

neelk wrote: This was a big "ah-ha!" moment for me, since it directly led me to figuring out HOW to create heroic characters who are genuinely heroic. (Cue stories of operationally fascist paladins in D&D.) Make sure the subtext says what you meant it to say!

pete_darby wrote:

neelk wrote: This was a big "ah-ha!" moment for me, since it directly led me to figuring out HOW to create heroic characters who are genuinely heroic. (Cue stories of operationally fascist paladins in D&D.) Make sure the subtext says what you meant it to say!

*ick!* I thought Johnstone said not to worry about the subtext... tell the story you want to tell first, worry about what it says about you later...

Well, that and Johnston's of the idea that "eveything that happens in the impro space is okay with everyone in it...", with a little handwaving in the way of saying you can refuse to say something, as long as you acknowledge your refusal.

Game sessions are, generally, not like that... with corss reference to Ron's post on learnign the interface, Johnstone is happiest when testing the interface...

neelk wrote on Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:33 pm:
> I'm reminded of a bit I read in Keith Johnstone's Impro, where he talked about
> the generally low quality of "progressive" plays. He noted that most such plays
> had a subtext directly opposed to their intended meaning: for example, a play
> intended to criticize biases against homosexuality might have a plot in which
> prejudice destroys a pair of gay lovers. While the author's intent was to criticize
> society, what actually happens in the play is that a gay romance doesn't work out
> and leads to misery and suffering for the lovers. A genuinely subversive play would
> need gay lovers who find joy and love and at end the play are happy and successful.

Johnstone's comments remind me of Orson Scott Card's comments about writing
a character who is a victim -- yes, the author gains the reader's sympathies,
but at the cost of making the character appear weak. Card points out that sometimes
the cost isn't always worth it. For example, a number of early feminist writings
depicted victimized women to criticize male oppression, and while these early stories
succeeded at making oppressive males look like brutes, they also "succeeded"
at making all women look weak and helpless -- and in need of strong males to protect
them in their weakness and helplessness from oppressive males. When Walt Disney
attempted to ensure audience sympathy for his fairy tale heroines, he evoked
"male protectiveness" of the day but at the cost of denuding his heroines of their
original power and courage and fortitude.

I'd suggest that the difference between a tragic hero and a tragic victim is that a
tragic hero is proactive, even aggressive, rather than reactive and silently suffering
or whimpering. None of Shakespeare's tragic heroes were helpless victims (except
perhaps of their own tragic flaws).

In gaming, this is important when it comes to the presentation of NPCs. It's too
easy to attempt to evoke player sympathy with an NPC who is weak and helpless --
but that sympathy may include a loss of respect.

Doctor Xero

Hey guys. Nice discussion. By the way, the new column's up, but won't be annouced until Thursday, I don't think. If you want first dibs, you can check it out here:

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/collists/fineart.html

neelk wrote: I'll look forward to reading it. I'm reminded of a bit I read in Keith Johnstone's Impro, where he talked about the generally low quality of "progressive" plays. He noted that most such plays had a subtext directly opposed to their intended meaning: for example, a play intended to criticize biases against homosexuality might have a plot in which prejudice destroys a pair of gay lovers. While the author's intent was to criticize society, what actually happens in the play is that a gay romance doesn't work out and leads to misery and suffering for the lovers. A genuinely subversive play would need gay lovers who find joy and love and at end the play are happy and successful.

I can see Johnstone's point, but he really does go for a very "surface" reading of plays. I'd also say "If you want to send a message, use Western Union." A story will say what it says, and people will think it says what they want it to say. Obviously, even I have my tolerances on this (see old RPG.net threads on reading LotR as specifically anti-Indian, which is about as batshit theory as I've ever seen someone try to seriously pass off).

But if you write, in the words of Neil Gaiman, to

"Tell a story you care about about people you care about, and make the reader care what happens to the people in the story."

"Let your message come second to your story."