Hi,

My pals who write Aurora have been publishing entirely to CD-ROM. The discs include:

Several very lengthy PDFs, total about 250-350 pages.
Flash tools and toys.
Brief, very high-quality (like Babylon 5 quality--one of the authors is a professional at computer animation) 3d movies of spaceships flying around, as illustrations.
Other toys and whatnot.

Now I've claimed (I make no bones about my biases) that a print copy will be more useful and accessible. A CD-ROM, to me, means you have to read the damn thing on the screen, or pay to print out a huge document when you've already paid for the disc.

One advantage is that shipping cost is low, as is medium.

They claim that CD-ROM pays for itself, in a sense, because you get all those movies and toys, none of which I find very useful (although they're pretty).

So my question:

Has anyone else published to CD-ROM?
Does anyone else have opinions about doing so?

Chris Lehrich

I'm not a publisher, but as a consumer if I'm going to buy a PDF (or mpeg, etc.), I would rather spend 15-30 minutes downloading the files than spend 2 weeks waiting for a CD to arrive in the mail or the 1 hour it might take me to leave the house and go to the gaming store.

Hi Chris,

This topic has come up many times in this forum, and there are at least two threads which contain huge link-lists to past threads. I think a search will yield a lot of insights.

Best,
Ron

Ron Edwards wrote: This topic has come up many times in this forum, and there are at least two threads which contain huge link-lists to past threads. I think a search will yield a lot of insights.

Do a search for "CDs". That's the trick.

Thanks, Lxndr.

Okay, now that I've read those threads, I need to clarify my question -- which wasn't directly answered that I've seen.

My question isn't, actually, whether CD versions can sell, or sell well. It looks to me like the answer to that is, "Yes, theoretically, but in reality no, they usually don't."

My question is, instead, how people feel about the product medium once it has already been purchased. For example, let's suppose you buy or otherwise acquire a CD of a game, and you decide you like it. Do you:

1. Print out a copy on the cheap
2. Print out a nice copy and have it bound (more or less cheaply)
3. Use it entirely from your computer
4. Do some combination of the above
5. Use it as a coaster :-)

I'm looking for your preferences here, not whether it can sell. On a related note, given that there's lots of movies and toys:

6. Do you use those things more than once?
7. Would you if they seemed helpful?
8. Could such toys incline you to use the CD version rather than a paper copy?

Anyway, just waiting to see what y'all think. Personal preferences here, and maybe statistics if you actually have them, but the former really interests me more.

Chris Lehrich

For me, I treat a CD just as I'd treat a PDF with the added hassle of having to insert the disk rather than just down load it.

Now, if the CD were going to be more than a delivery vehicle for a PDF but a full multmedia experience complete with html linkings, video animation instead of just illustrations, mp3 soundtracks to set the mood and other such whiz bangs...then maybe...it would be something hella special.

But no, if its just a PDF file it just gets loaded, saved, and pitched.

Hiya,

I blush to confess that I usually ignore it. Not because I want to and planned on doing so, but because there are, to me, too many steps to deal with.

If it's a book or booklet, I read it. If it's a download, I usually print it and then read it. Either way, once I "have" it, it's all set for me to move straight to reading.

But a CD has to be pulled out of its little pack, and then it has to be slid into the drawer-thing and turned on, and then you have to clicky-click little icons and learn how it's all put together ... and then who knows whether it'll be easy to print out ... and ... and ...

So the usual result is that I never get around to it. Shameful, but in practice, that's what happens.

Best,
Ron

For games with lots of handling time, I think a CD could be quite cool.

Here is an idea of what could make a cool CD:

1.) PDF Copy of rulebook in format suitable for printing and binding

2.) Copy of the rules in some hyperlinked, indexed, searchable format (plain HTML would work, but if someone went crazy and used something like compiled HTML [as seen in Windows help] it would be extra-spiff)

3.) Character generation software (if the system warrents it)

4.) Combat handling software (ditto)

5.) PDFs of useful forms / charts / whatnot

Bonus materials might include:

* Appropriate mood music / background noises

* Flash animation "How to play" tutorial and examples of play

* Maps in electronic format (Campaign Cartographer or whetever)


BTW- I noticed last week that Cafe Press now offers Data CDs as a product you can sell. They will even print on the front of the CD like the Pros do. Their base price for these isn't crippling--it may be worth a look-see.

Jay, Ron, Ralph --

It's very interesting -- your responses exactly fit both what my pals are doing and my own response to it. That is, the disc includes exactly, 100%, what Jay proposes as cool. My own response is exactly Ron's: I want a printed copy of the PDF part, and ignore the rest. If the system were so complicated that the little flash tools actually helped, I confess I'd find it not worth learning; I admit, I'm a lazy sod.

Basically what arises here, unless a lot of people disagree strongly, is that I ought to be encouraging my friends to move to print publishing and leave the CD material (tools, animations, pictures, etc.) as fun extras for download or something of the kind. It sure sounds like the sales realities are that CD doesn't encourage anyone, and I'm not hearing anyone saying that a CD with all the stuff Jay lists would actually be better than a printed copy with fun downloads.

Any disagreements? Caveats? Clarifications?

This actually does matter, you see. There's sales happening, but since it's on the order of a copy per month, I'd like to see some movement and change in process.

Honestly, I dislike the system (which falls into a lot of Mike's Rants, as he once noted), but the background universe genuinely is cool.

Chris Lehrich

I should clarify that I always prefer a printed book over electronic formats. All the goodies I mentioned would sweeten the deal for a game on the order of the Hero System. But it should be noted that I don't play Hero System anymore. I still buy the books out of some deep rooted loyalty to my first love--but that's a different story...

I'm not sure what you're expecting to find. You say that you're not interested in whether they would sell, but they you keep refering to this one product and how well it does (or, rather, does not) sell.

I think most people are used to reading books. Me, I'm a freak, and prefer to read things on screen - that way I don't ever have to switch medium. So count me as exemplary of the one guy who's buying a month. Actually, probably what's happening is that people are buying for the game despite the format. But there are a few people like me who prefer it. I can name numerous advantages, but somehow people still don't seem to take to it. I think this will change in time, however...

That said, I'd probably prefer to download everything as I needed it in parts. Why a CD that needs to be mailed? I smell a proprietary scheme here. If I liked the game, I'd probably download it all off the disc to hard drive for quicker reference. What's nice about this is that you can autorize sales instantly meaning that the person can buy from the home. Believe me, this works for me as an incentive to buy. It's like having the game store in my home. The only thing that sometimes gets me to buy from a local store when something is available online is that I can get it a day earlier or whatever. Instant download is a big incentive, IMO.

Mike

Lulu.com posted this on their website recently..

IMPORTANT: Due to the attractiveness of download distribution, Lulu’s CD and Browser distribution options have dropped to levels that can no longer be supported. Therefore, effective March 15, 2004, the CD and Browser distribution option will be discontinued for new and existing publications.

(Originally posted in the wrong thread by accident.)

Not directly related to RPGs, perhaps, but very much related to print vs PDF....

UbiSoft put out a flight sim late last year called Lock-On: Modern Air Combat (LOMAC): a high-complexity, high fidelity sim. They provided a skimpy little paper manual, and the real manual was a PDF on the CD.

Fans raised a grand high stink about the PDF manual, because it isn't very convenient when you're playing the game on the computer and need to look something up, and the price of printing a ~200 page manual at Kinko's isn't tiny.

One of the fans got creative, talked to UbiSoft, and set up this: http://www.lomac-manual.com/: a printed, bound, expanded version of the manual for sale separately. Apparently it's sold pretty well; if memory serves, they're into their second or third print run of 750.

Upshot: People who are upset by the PDF may be willing to pay extra for paper. The danger, of course, is that people decide you're gouging them for the paper manual that they "ought to have had in the first place".