The Forge Archives

Hiya,

I was thinking about Meatbot Massacre, which was discussed in Meatbot Massacre and the ransom model. You can read about it through the links, but basically, what's going on is that people are paying into a kitty, and when the kitty reaches $600, Greg and Dan put out the game.

I kind of like this idea. It's the "busker" approach, really, and seems up-front in every possible way. I'm posting about it now because I was curious, back then, to see how long they'd take to get halfway. Mainly because the $300 mark would have been my arbitrary cutoff amount, based on my expenses for Elfs. And when I checked the site today, lo and behold, it says "$364.88." (note: the front page figure is obsolete; I'm getting this from the more up-to-date Buy page.

So they started back in when, about November, I think, and their deadline is September 1 of this year. Not bad. I don't know whether it was an initial spike and then a die-off, or what, but it at least seems to be working pretty well so far.

I'm kind of tempted to set up some kind of similar approach for an Adept Press product. My tweak would clearly be a lower total nut. Does anyone have any thoughts about other modifications or versions of the idea?

Best,
Ron

Hey Ron,

My only thought about this is that it requires a name attached to it to be effective, regardless of the variation.  Without a name and a track record why would anyone donate money?

Anyway, the one variation I would use would be timed releases of material to conencide with watermarks.  Like say I was going to do this with a 64 page game via PDF and my top out was $600.  I would likely offer something at say every $100.  The item would tie into the final release, need the final release to be used effectively, tease folks with what the final release will be like and serve as an incentive to keep donating...

Keith

It's not a game, but Joey Comeau of the webcomic A Softer World did a graduated release much like the one you brought up, Ron, with his novella Lockpick Pornography.  Every $200 bought a new chapter (and part of his tuition).  It worked, and he'll be putting up the final two chapters tomorrow.

ASW is midlevel-to-popular as webcomics go, so I agree with you, Keith, that there is some name factor at work here.  I don't know its visitor figures, but I do know they almost always hit their bandwidth limit of a gig a month with a ~65k front page.

I have worked in the Internet Service business most of my adult life. Back in the days when smaller towns still didn't have dialup Internet access and mid-sized towns were just getting second and third players, we started waiting lists for small local exchanges. Once there were enough customers who individually said they would be willing to pay for service that it made things cost effective to put in the equipment and pay for access lines, we'd roll out into the smaller towns. We couldn't afford expensive market research for little bitty areas, but we could easily keep track of interested potential customers and call them back when we were ready to serve them. We didn't charge in advance, but some companies in some places did charge the first month's fee to get on the waiting list. This is very close to the same thing as what's being discussed.

I think this idea works well in any low-volume market if you make it clear what benefits you can offer. In the RPG space, that probably does mean either an established name or at least some really nice teasers. In general, people understand it's difficult to invest up-front in a small business with a small market. They are willing to work with you if they can expect you to deliver on your promises.

I have toyed with the idea (although I haven't yet actrually released a game myself) of using subscriptions at some point. I would have a new big game every year, and a few smaller ones in between. Monthly releases would include errata, sourcebooks, software accessories like character generators, setting material for those needing some creative help, and extra hints and tips for running and playing the games. A small specialty game might get updates for a few months, and the main game at the time and the previous main game would get lots of material. Think about 24 months of regular releases for a game all included in one price. It'd be sort of like Dragon magazine, but the core game is included in one of the issues every year. The less formal feel, that of a magazine, lends itself well to including ads for future games or even for other RPG-related items.  It's not a hard-set decision, but like I said a thought with which I've been toying.

Also, I think that paid advertising could find a place in RPG books or PDFs as another way to offset production costs. Not just about other games, and not just at the front and back. That's another topic, though, so although I have a bunch of ideas about it, it'd be better to share them in a new thread if that's desired.

Heyo, everyone. I just checked the front page and the figure is in order. It's just that the front page shows how much ransom is left to go, not how many donations have been made to date. Do you think I should just make it the donations to date? I thought it would be cooler to see it sort of count down as the deadline approached. Maybe not. :P

If you check the News page, it's got a weekly (well, mostly) update of how many donations we've received. I'm comparing this information to site traffic data to see if there's any correlation. I'm hardly an essayist though, so it will probably be little more than a chart-style breakdown of the info.

All this aside, I'm very pleased to see how much steady interest there's been in this game. I think I also speak for Greg when I say how grateful we are for all the support we've been given over these short few months. This game really does kick ass and hopefully the donations will keep coming in at a steady rate so we can show it off to everyone. ^_^

I think it's a very interesting model. Pretty cool, really. (And I'm surprised no one has just ponied up the remaining $200-$300 to get the game out there.)

It seems to me that such a thing would require vigorous promotion. Or at least I'd promote the hell out of it. Link it to demos at cons: "Ok, you loved that, right? Gimme $5 bucks each and we're that much closer to the whole world getting the game." I bet you could do a $300 donation explosion at Gencon if you tied it into demos and ticketed games -- and promoted it properly. "What was that demo worth to you? How much would you give me so your whole gaming group could have a copy of this game?"

Something like that at least.

And I heartlly agree with Keith, teasers are a must.
-Luke

As far as teasers go, Greg's hoping to get well-known figures (one of whom should be very familiar to anyone on the Forge ^_~ ) in the RPG community to play a game of Meatbot and write reviews in their respective forums. Aside from that, because the PDF is relatively short, there's very little material we can release as teasers without giving away the whole shebang. Hopefully, these reviews will provide the last few kicks of donations to reach the full ransom. :)

Well, how about a teaser such as a fully made up character who's not in the rules?

You don't have to explain anything. See, let's say I'm designing a game, and I'm, you know, Ron Edwards and all that shit. (semi-kidding; I'm just talking about name recognition, not actual intrinsic greatness)

Well, why not provide a PDF of a fully made up character for the game? And not explain it at all?

Let's say I did this for Trollbabe. Whoa! People say. This Retta chick is hot, with all those thews and horns and stuff. But what's this? No strength or dexterity? What's this "one number" thing? And hey, there are all these little boxes about re-rolls, based on relationships! What are those?

I smile and say, Buy the game, or in the case we're discussing, pony up, and find out.

Damn, that's a good idea. I wish I'd done that.

Best,
Ron

Oooh. Good idea, I'll bring it up with Greg.