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In another thread, I mentioned that I was currently GMing a Sci Fi game (Alternity) which wasn't my preferred genre and that I was having a hard time getting invested into game.  Fantasy is my preferred genre.   One of the posters (Dev) mentioned making another thread to discuss the issue since it departed from the topic of the original.

Why do I have a hard time with Sci Fi and not with Fantasy?  That's a hard question to answer.  Off the top of my head, it could have something to do with my literary preferences.  I love Fantasy.  I read Tolkien (of course), Lewis, Jordan, Martin, Cheryth, Freidman, Salvatore, and a plethora of other fantasy authors.  I read some Sci Fi but generally authors I know from the fanatasy side of the house.  Given this, I have a lot more source material to pull from when playing fantasy.  That increases my comfort level with the game and it also makes it easier for me to get invested in it.

I have played in some games (Robotech and Star Wars) that I have enjoyed.  However, I've yet to be able to GM a Sci Fi game that wasn't somewhat of a chore for me.  I find it easier to get into a game as a player, whatever the genre, than as a GM.  Perhaps it is because as a player the scope of the game is smaller.  I'm just concerned with my character's perspective and as a GM I have larger concerns.

I don't really know.  Most of this is just rambling on with whatever comes to mind.  In any event, does anyone have suggestions on how I might be able to learn to enjoy running Sci Fi games more?  Anyone have the same type of issues as me?  How many of you find you enjoy playing all different genres as opposed to those of use who really prefer only one?

I wrote this message before reading the Disgruntled Parents thread; if anyone hasn't read it, you might want to look at it first.

What is your feeling about Science Fantasy?  Games such as Fading Suns offer some gamers a chance to delve into the tropes of science fiction with the spirit of fantasy.  This is not a universally popular choice as purists of either stripe often are not accepting of robots in their dungeons or mages on the bridge of their starships.  

Early D&D was pretty much a hybrid of this type; but you cannot believe the flak I got from a player in one campaign when the underground dungeon turned out to be a buried ancient spaceship.   One of the main players was already playing a technologist/gadget fiend in an otherwise medieval setting.  The other player seemed to have no problem with him having advanced technology, but I think that was just because they were dating.  I tried to explain the background of how he might have this technological knowledge, and that opened a can of worms.  By the time they battled their way out of the spaceship, the aggravated player was highly annoyed and made many negative comments even though the other players were quite happy with the session.  We went back to playing D&D after that (we were using a free-form minimalist system for that campaign).  I think that the technologist player was annoyed about that and really liked his character and the science fantasy campaign, but he was dating the annoyed player so compromises were made.

What do you like about fantasy and dislike about science fiction in your gaming?  How about your players?  It may or may not be possible to compromise depending how you answer those questions.

Later,
Mark

I've gone back and forth between the sci-fi genre and the fantasy genre.  It basically depends what kind of mood I'm in.  If I watch a cool action movie that involves stealth and infilitration, I'm usually in the mood for a good ol' sci-fi game.  After watching Lord of the Rings, it's fantasy all the way.

Depending on how often you get together, you might consider switching back and forth and see which one your group likes best.  Just don't switch too often, or momentum is lost.

Quote from: GaerikIn any event, does anyone have suggestions on how I might be able to learn to enjoy running Sci Fi games more?  Anyone have the same type of issues as me?  How many of you find you enjoy playing all different genres as opposed to those of use who really prefer only one?

I have a few observations.  One is that sci-fi often has problems with a wide scope.  The PCs often have a vehicle which lets them zip about to distant places, and instantaneous communication to many possible sources.  So it can be hard to get depth -- the extreme case being space opera planet-of-the-week.  You might look at

Thematically, fantasy tends to be "conservative" in a sense.  Commonly, there was a golden age some time ago when god and/or great magics were about -- and the present is in the shadow of that.  Sci-fi tends to be "progressive" in that new wonders are coming about that will change everything.

What about Jorune or Barsoom?

If Sci Fi is too much of a tought nut to crack, perhaps you could try some post-apocalyptic or Modern day stuff. How about Wild West (Deadlands) or Film Noir (Noir)? Perhaps some Mad Max-esque shinanigans in the form of OctaNe?

I'm exactly the same (but opposite). I can't stomach Fantasy as it has become too much of a cliche. The dwarf is short. The elf is clever. To me (and I appreciate it is probably only me) it's very much run-of-the mill. Sci Fi floats my boat because each one is different. May I recommend running a Sci Fi that you're familiar with Star Wars or Star Trek or similar. If the whole team is familiar with the genre, it's a lot easier to get into it.

I hope this helps.

One of the things I've noticed about fantasy settings is that they often have a "Good vs.Evil" feel to the conflict. Certainly there are big exceptions to this; I'm speaking generally. Even when the lines are blurry on G v.E, there is often a clear threat that must be faced.

Neither realworld based games nor sf settings seem to have that sort of clearcut conflict as regularly as fantasy settings.

Could this be part of your enjoyment of fantasy settings?

At what point during the sci-fi game do you sigh and think to yourself "I'd rather be playing D&D."?  Is it making the characters?  Designing adventures?  Dealing with equipment costs?  Dealing with the local societies?  Maybe trying different kinds of sci-fi would discover one more to your taste, especially if it has the same themes as a fantasy game.  Star Wars is one that seems to bridge the gap.  Cyberpunk, post-apocalypse sci-fi, space opera, mecha, etc. are all different genres of sci-fi with different styles.

In the end what it boils down to is that this is like comparing apples to oranges.  "Sci-fi," like Scourge mentioned, is too general to compare to "Fantasy," which is also too general.  There are even "fantasy-sci-fi" games out there that prove this point.

So, my final opinion would be to find a system that you would enjoy playing that is in the genre of "sci-fi."  Otherwise it gets too hard to compare.

Scourge108 said...

QuoteAt what point during the sci-fi game do you sigh and think to yourself "I'd rather be playing D&D."?

komradbob said...

Quote
One of the things I've noticed about fantasy settings is that they often have a "Good vs.Evil" feel to the conflict. Certainly there are big exceptions to this; I'm speaking generally. Even when the lines are blurry on G v.E, there is often a clear threat that must be faced.

Neither realworld based games nor sf settings seem to have that sort of clearcut conflict as regularly as fantasy settings.

Could this be part of your enjoyment of fantasy settings?

Hmmmm...  I think komradbob has hit part of it.  I *like* that most of the fantasy literature I read and enjoy isn't morally ambiguous.  Good and evil are real things and play a real part in what is going on.  Most Sci Fi (at least that I've run across) doesn't deal with this issue at all.  Good and evil are simply philosophical constructs.  I'm sure there are settings where this is not the case but I haven't run across too many of them.  Star Wars does come to mind.

I also like the aspect of the supernatural in fantasy, even low magic fantasy.  There's a spiritual side of things that permeates the setting and has a real impact on things.  Somehow I find "Wow! I developed this really cool framistat that bends light waves to make me invisible!"  less engaging than "I created this magical staff but had summon and make a deal with a demon to do so."  I realize that is all completely personal preference.  I also realize that Star Wars has a rather supernatural side to it (until they explained it away with midichlorians.... bastards!).

Two of my issues have been answered with the Star Wars and you might be wondering why I don't just use that setting.  Mostly I don't because I'm not a huge fan of playing in settings with a huge metaplot... or at least a huge metaplot that isn't my own creation.  I don't even like that in fantasy games.

Several people did have points.  Fantasy and Sci Fi are pretty broad categories and make nailing down anything definative very difficult.

Have you looked at the Rifts RPG?  It's a sci-fi setting that seems to have everything you want.  (That's really the point of it, I guess.  It's supposed to have everything that anybody could possibly want.)  It's really too bad that the Rifts system is so messed up but I still recommend it for setting ideas.

Another game/setting you might look at to see if it catches your imagination is Pax Draconis <http://paxdraconis.com/>   The reason it sprang to mind was your comment that you like the spiritual flavor of fantasy, and PD struck me as a game that treats religion and spirituallity seriously, much in the same way TROS handles it.  (specifically: the power of religion is real, but derives from the convictions of those who believe).  It also treads the science-fantasy line by having a detailed "psionics" system that has quite a magical flair to it.

As for the system, I've played a few times and it seems quite nice, which a level of crunch about on par with D&D.

I would also point you towards my Legends of Alyria RPG that is currently wending its way towards existence.  There are some downloads at //www.key20.com/alyria and a forum here on the Forge.  The system is perhaps different than what you are used to, but the setting straddles the line between SF and fantasy, in the tradition of Gene Wolfe and Jack Vance.  This could be a good compromise for your group.  Even if you don't like the system (although I'd urge you to give it a try), you could port the setting to a different system and be up and off.

Seth Ben-Ezra
Great Wolf

Andrew, would suggestions of fantastic stories with scifi props and good vs evil conflicts interest you? The first few that pop into mind are anime, because they're more recent for me.

I'll just give one as a demonstration of concept. The series "Lost Universe" is about an interstellar civilisation in which people find Lost Ships. Lost Ships are intelligent, powerful, and generally Evil. They need to drain energy from humans. In order to secure psychic energy they help their patsy gain his own goals. The series starts as a silly comedy until the secrets of the Lost Ships and the organization Nightmare are revealed.

Alternity mechanics support a considerable fantasy element. Dark Matter makes heavy use of that sort of thing. It isn't entirely clear what you think of Alternity itself.

John

Hi Andrew,

Fantasy Flight Games' Dragonstar setting might help fulfill your d20 Fantasy fetish while keeping your friend out of trouble for playing D&D. In it you will find all the things you love about Fantasy, but with an added layer of Science-Fiction elements like starships, lasers, far-flung colony worlds, etc. Worth checking out, and it would require less conversion than Pax Draconis, if you stick with Alternity.